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> destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up I'm not convinced that the console ecosystem would be destroyed if you forced them all to open u

> destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up I'm not convinced that the console ecosystem would be destroyed if you forced them all to open up. Quite the contrary: I'd happily invest in consoles if I could build it myself with open hardware.

ballenf 6y ago
But the current ecosystem depends on selling the hardware at a loss. We would still have consoles, but the ecosystem would necessarily change. If consoles were not price subsidized like now, their prices would go up and sales would be affected. Presumably there'd just be fewer people who could afford to buy the latest one. You might see lower or higher specs in consoles since the market would be a little more niche. Xbox might merge fully into Windows 10 and the line between console and gamer PC may disappear. At the very least, I think we can all agree that the console ecosystem would change. Maybe "destroy" is too strong, but maybe not.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Nintendo hardly sells hardware at a loss, hence why they focus on game experience and not on ultimate graphics experience.
thaumasiotes 6y ago
We already have an open console market. It's called the PC market. Consoles are nothing but closed PCs. Did opening up destroy the PC market? No. But opening up another console market probably would destroy it; there's no reason to separate a hypothetical new PC market from the old PC market. So if you have a PC market and a PS4 market, and then you open the PS4, you have a PC market and another PC market, and then you just have the PC market.
- xmprt 6y ago
  The console market has been slowly dying for the last decade. If anything, opening the console market could help rejuvenate it by turning consoles into general purpose entertainment devices. And the claim that consoles are just closed down PCs is absurd. Consoles can play AAA games at a fraction of the cost of your average PC. The hardware that goes into building a console is significantly different than a PC.
  - rolph 6y ago
    >> The console market has been slowly dying for the last decade. If anything, opening the console market could help rejuvenate it by turning consoles into general purpose entertainment devices << there was a time when consoles didnt require internet tethering, were media capable, and could be used for common PC tasks.
    - mr_toad 6y ago
      > were media capable Still are. I watch nearly all my TV through my PS4.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Console hardware isn't significantly different. It's just a highly customized APU from AMD with GDDR5 memory as main memory to make the iGPU fast. A PC might cost more but it also performs better than the console.
- danShumway 6y ago
  > It's called the PC market. Consoles are nothing but closed PCs. Eh.. no, I think this is reductive. In addition to being closed PCs, consoles are also an OS and collection of services that make playing games easier and make the process of configuring the device easy. They also often come with unique hardware (3DS, Wii U, Switch, Vita) that offer dedicated features that don't make sense on PCs. Most importantly, consoles are standardized PCs. It's not that they're closed, it's that if a game says it works on the Switch, and you have a Switch, that's it. That's all you need to know. PCs offer a lot more complication because there are multiple hardware variations and because the OS isn't specially designed to provide a lot of dedicated frameworks and interfaces to make running games and taking advantage of the hardware easy. I don't think any of those benefits would go away if 3rd-parties were allowed to make compatible games without asking permission. It would be a lot harder to loss-lead the hardware, sure. And it would maybe have some implications for quality-control if anyone could start selling unplayable games at Walmart. I'm sympathetic to those arguments. But I think it's reductive to say that the only reason anyone would ever buy a console is because it's a closed market.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    > Most importantly, consoles are standardized PCs. It's not that they're closed, it's that if a game says it works on the Switch, and you have a Switch, that's it. That's all you need to know. PCs offer a lot more complication because there are multiple hardware variations and because the OS isn't specially designed to provide a lot of dedicated frameworks and interfaces to make running games and taking advantage of the hardware easy. Yes, I'm familiar with the economic reasons for the existence of consoles. But look at the parent comment: >>> I'd happily invest in consoles if I could build it myself with open hardware. And poof, all the benefits of standardization are gone. This is just an ordinary PC. You put in the parts you want. And developers suddenly have to support every part anyone might want. > I don't think any of those benefits would go away if 3rd-parties were allowed to make compatible games without asking permission. As I read inetknght, he's talking about making the hardware open, not letting people sell games for it.
    - danShumway 6y ago
manicdee 6y ago
Just like the flocks of people building Hackintoshes instead of buying Macs.

ballenf 6y ago

But the current ecosystem depends on selling the hardware at a loss. We would still have consoles, but the ecosystem would necessarily change. If consoles were not price subsidized like now, their prices would go up and sales would be affected. Presumably there'd just be fewer people who could afford to buy the latest one. You might see lower or higher specs in consoles since the market would be a little more niche. Xbox might merge fully into Windows 10 and the line between console and gamer PC may disappear. At the very least, I think we can all agree that the console ecosystem would change. Maybe "destroy" is too strong, but maybe not.

pjmlp 6y ago
Nintendo hardly sells hardware at a loss, hence why they focus on game experience and not on ultimate graphics experience.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

We already have an open console market. It's called the PC market. Consoles are nothing but closed PCs. Did opening up destroy the PC market? No. But opening up another console market probably would destroy it; there's no reason to separate a hypothetical new PC market from the old PC market. So if you have a PC market and a PS4 market, and then you open the PS4, you have a PC market and another PC market, and then you just have the PC market.

xmprt 6y ago
The console market has been slowly dying for the last decade. If anything, opening the console market could help rejuvenate it by turning consoles into general purpose entertainment devices. And the claim that consoles are just closed down PCs is absurd. Consoles can play AAA games at a fraction of the cost of your average PC. The hardware that goes into building a console is significantly different than a PC.
- rolph 6y ago
  >> The console market has been slowly dying for the last decade. If anything, opening the console market could help rejuvenate it by turning consoles into general purpose entertainment devices << there was a time when consoles didnt require internet tethering, were media capable, and could be used for common PC tasks.
  - mr_toad 6y ago
    > were media capable Still are. I watch nearly all my TV through my PS4.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Console hardware isn't significantly different. It's just a highly customized APU from AMD with GDDR5 memory as main memory to make the iGPU fast. A PC might cost more but it also performs better than the console.
danShumway 6y ago
> It's called the PC market. Consoles are nothing but closed PCs. Eh.. no, I think this is reductive. In addition to being closed PCs, consoles are also an OS and collection of services that make playing games easier and make the process of configuring the device easy. They also often come with unique hardware (3DS, Wii U, Switch, Vita) that offer dedicated features that don't make sense on PCs. Most importantly, consoles are standardized PCs. It's not that they're closed, it's that if a game says it works on the Switch, and you have a Switch, that's it. That's all you need to know. PCs offer a lot more complication because there are multiple hardware variations and because the OS isn't specially designed to provide a lot of dedicated frameworks and interfaces to make running games and taking advantage of the hardware easy. I don't think any of those benefits would go away if 3rd-parties were allowed to make compatible games without asking permission. It would be a lot harder to loss-lead the hardware, sure. And it would maybe have some implications for quality-control if anyone could start selling unplayable games at Walmart. I'm sympathetic to those arguments. But I think it's reductive to say that the only reason anyone would ever buy a console is because it's a closed market.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > Most importantly, consoles are standardized PCs. It's not that they're closed, it's that if a game says it works on the Switch, and you have a Switch, that's it. That's all you need to know. PCs offer a lot more complication because there are multiple hardware variations and because the OS isn't specially designed to provide a lot of dedicated frameworks and interfaces to make running games and taking advantage of the hardware easy. Yes, I'm familiar with the economic reasons for the existence of consoles. But look at the parent comment: >>> I'd happily invest in consoles if I could build it myself with open hardware. And poof, all the benefits of standardization are gone. This is just an ordinary PC. You put in the parts you want. And developers suddenly have to support every part anyone might want. > I don't think any of those benefits would go away if 3rd-parties were allowed to make compatible games without asking permission. As I read inetknght, he's talking about making the hardware open, not letting people sell games for it.
  - danShumway 6y ago

manicdee 6y ago

Just like the flocks of people building Hackintoshes instead of buying Macs.