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While their end goal is pretty clear(brand loyalty, profiling).. i doubt that it will come to pass with our current tech. Lets face it - IT professionals do no

While their end goal is pretty clear(brand loyalty, profiling).. i doubt that it will come to pass with our current tech. Lets face it - IT professionals do not trust such systems, nor use them - they are inferior to any type of input mode at the moment. Most normal people do not care about them, nor use them. There is vocal but relatively niche group of tech enthusiasts who are really into it, but they are already a brand loyalists. On a side note - the whole concept of brand loyalty is completely idiotic from consumer PoV. There is no merit for the customer in it.

sokoloff 6y ago
My kitchen Alexa has an excellent user interface for kitchen timers and casual music listening IMO.
- Spivak 6y ago
  For me the killer app for voice assistants is in the kitchen 100%. Being able to juggle a bunch of timers, control the AC and fans, dictate to multiple lists, play music, control the TV, and respond to texts while my hands are covered in food is easily worth the like $40 the thing cost. I'm not super impressed with any of the assistants "smart" features but in terms of being able to shout canned commands at it in a noisy environment it's top notch.
Timpy 6y ago
In this case "brand loyalty" is just the chrysalis of vendor lock. At first you use it because it's convenient, then the model changes and your digital ecosystem is held hostage. Microsoft did this with my generation and Office, Google is capturing the next generation with Docs and Chromebooks in every school. Amazon microphones endeavor to be brand-synonymous with smart homes of the future. The more they can integrate with your Amazon account, phone, tablet, Smart-TV, HVAC, security, grocery list, etc., the more "brand loyal" you will be.
Loughla 6y ago
>Most normal people do not care about them, nor use them. >There is vocal but relatively niche group of tech enthusiasts who are really into it, but they are already a brand loyalists. Are you serious? My 97 year old grandpa even asked me to set up an Alexa for him, so he could shout at her to check the weather. My most tech illiterate friends LOVE those devices, because they're so easy to use.
- jakear 6y ago
  Yep.. and if a privacy-positive company (say, apple) were to create a voice calling device (Facebook portal, echo show), I’d buy it for the grandparents in a heartbeat. The current system involves a nearby grandchild driving an hour there and back every time we want to have a family video chat to get their computers back into the state we told them to never modify.
  - ngneer 6y ago
    Have they perhaps figured that part out? And suddenly the computer is "broken"? Count on me to do that when the time comes...
    - jakear 6y ago
      Do you mean to say my grandparents are purposely breaking the computer for more face time with the grandkids? I could see it, though this has only really been a necessity post-COVID, when it’d really be much better for them to not have a lot of physical interactions with those outside their local friend pod.
  - robin_reala 6y ago
    iPad, child mode, turn off every other app from Facetime and Siri, and turn off the app store: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201304#allow-apps https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201304#allow-apps
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
There is a beautiful essay by Nassim Nicholas Taleb Nassim Nicholas Taleb titled, "The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority" that bears reading. Vocal minorities do change society. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
Fjolsvith 6y ago
The ability to say, "Google, text my wife and tell her I will be home after 8", is truly invaluable while driving.
- ratel 6y ago
  It would be indeed a great feature if that was something only shared between you and your wife. Alas you get a lot of extras to go with it: An algorithm decides that you then must be hungry so ads for Arby's (they really can't rely on word of mouth) keep popping up in your navigation. After three such messages an algorithm decides your wife might be in the market for a divorce lawyer, because in 50%+ percent of the cases this might be a sign of marital disagreement. Your wife's newsfeeds change just a little because she is now deemed pro-divorce with messages about huge settlements and divorce horror stories, because those keep people engaged. Safe driving...
  - Fjolsvith 6y ago
    Actually, I've never seen an ad in my navigation (Google Maps).
    - c22 6y ago
      Really? Just the other day it told me to turn left at the Starbucks.
      - shadowgovt 6y ago
        The system knows about some buildings as landmarks. I don't think I would categorize that as advertising; "turn left at the Starbucks" is an extremely human way to give directions. I haven't thought about it as advertising when my parents tell people to turn left at the gas station on the corner; There's a gas station on the corner. It's an easy landmark. Two nights ago, I had Maps tell me "turn right after the McDonald's" because there was a McDonald's at the corner.
        6y ago
UncleMeat 6y ago
IT professional here. I use a google home and trust it. I’m not a tech enthusiast.
- remix2000 6y ago
  Professional is a rather broad term. Do you work in ITSec or at least some related field?
  - pnutjam 6y ago
    dollars to donuts, app developer or db admin
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      PhD in CS from a top five program, specializing in mobile security. My day job is similar. Why is it so hard to believe that people can be different from you?
      - pnutjam 6y ago
        so you work in infosec? or I'm right about your day job. Education to a Phd Level implies some serious specialization. You say "mobile", but those best practices move pretty quick and yesterday's degree doesn't do much to confer today's knowledge. I know everyone has a different comfort level, but if you have an infosec background you have to admit you're giving away alot of information and potential control. Maybe you're ok with that.
        UncleMeat 6y ago
        > so you work in infosec? Yes. My daily work is on vuln detection. It's true that the field has moved since I graduated. But I still attend conferences and engage with academics for recruiting purposes.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    I work specifically on mobile security. I have a PhD in CS, specializing in mobile security.
Bud 6y ago
The first line of this comment is your opinion, which can't be false, as it's just an opinion, but the other four lines are all completely false. 1. IT professionals absolutely do use such systems. In droves. It's true that we are more likely to be wary of them, but a large number of IT pros I know and work with do use Alexa/Siri/etc. for home automation and all kinds of other things. And no: smart speakers are not "inferior to any type of input mode", at least not in a wide variety of circumstances. I can turn my air conditioner on or adjust its temperature while lying in bed, without getting up, and without even waking up all the way. Try that with another "type of input mode". I can turn on lights while I am stumbling to the bathroom in the middle of the night, but I can easily use only 10% brightness so as to not wake up my wife. Try that with another input mode. I could go on for pages, but I trust the point is made. 2. There are at least 300 million smart speakers out there already, and the number is growing exponentially. Amazon alone already had 100 million sold by the beginning of 2019. I don't know the exact number right now, but it's a very big number. 3. See #2. 300 million units is not a "niche". 4. Brand loyalty, in fact, gives substantial benefits to the consumer, contrary to your assertion. Greater integration of devices and ease of use is the most obvious one.
- tomp 6y ago
  > 4. Brand loyalty, in fact, gives substantial benefits to the consumer, contrary to your assertion. Greater integration of devices and ease of use is the most obvious one. No, it's the other way around. I don't get updates on my 3 year old phone because I'm loyal to Apple, I'm loyal to Apple because I get updates on my 3 year old phone.
  - braythwayt 6y ago
    Dare I say it can be both? Some things are "virtuous cycles." You get updates, and in your experience those updates add value, which increases your expectation of value should you stick with this phone and possibly replace it with another of the same brand. That IS brand loyalty, generated by delivering value, not just fancy advertising. And conversely, the experience customers have with their phone gives them certain expectations should they buy the matching AirPods rather than Bose or even B&O. When it turns out that the AirPods have special integration with their iPhone, it sets up positive expectations for buying an iPad. And on and on. The value creates brand loyalty, and the brand loyalty leads consumers to buy more products from the same brand, which increases their value because of the integration within the ecosystem. When the brand is actually delivering the value, it's a virtuous cycle: value -> brand loyalty -> more value -> more brand loyalty.
nolok 6y ago
> Highly disagree I think what people actually uses them for is very different than what tech and marketing think its for, but there is a massive market and everyday people love it to play music, call another room in a big house, control the light, check what's on tv tonight and if it's raining tomorrow. Having my 64 years old mom emptying her fridge and then randomly saying "Alexa, what can I cook with VEGETABLE ? [answer] Okay, remind me tomorrow morning" was something very opening, as was "alexa, where is my PRODUCT" to hear about when its delivered. Especially since I - a tech user - was a first buyer of many of these techs but mostly don't use them. My mom doesn't know how to use tech. She makes a face when the TV remote has button that are not numbers and arrows, she still doesn't understand nor care about what the 3 buttons at the bottom of her android phone do (home / back / ...), but she has fully integrated alexa into parts her daily routine, yet completly left it out of others that it could handle. The last time I saw something that eye opening about tech for non tech user was chromecast/firetv. So yes, I totally understand why those companies want that spot, because whoever gets my mom queries gets her ad profile, gets her delivery orders, her music subscription, dictates what compatible brands she will use, etc ...
- jakear 6y ago
  > whoever gets my mom queries gets her ad profile This got me thinking —- are folks who can’t/won’t/rarely operate computers but are heavy users of voice control living in a post-ad world? Where would personalizes ads even be displayed? All the streaming services don’t have ads (at the right price point), and sure the buying products through voice devices could push particular brands, but amazon already does that with “amazon’s choice” products and I know many people who will only buy those, so nothing is really changing there. Similar for recommended content on streaming services.
  - rswail 6y ago
    Alexa, what butter should I order for this recipe? Alexa, buy me the shoes that Kim Kardashian has on her latest instagram pic, size 7. Amazon will control that gateway and can sell those answers to the highest paying advertiser. That's even better than paying for the #1 position on google search.
jayd16 6y ago
I don't buy this at all. This modern incarnation of The Clapper has wide appeal. Everyone wants to turn things on or off. No one wants to get up.
RandoHolmes 6y ago
I've been driving the same vehicle for 16 years and the only parts I've had to replace are the starter (< 3 months ago) and the battery (3 times in 16 years). You damn well better believe I have some brand loyalty.
davidwparker 6y ago
As others stated, you're welcome to your opinions, but those aren't facts. In our household, my wife loves our Google Home's- and uses them constantly. Playing music, broadcasting messages, adding things to grocery list, and following recipes are among her main uses. I tend to use it too for playing music and the grocery list.
analyte123 6y ago
In addition to all the other people saying how this is wrong, particularly for older people and people who are better at speaking and listening than reading and writing, there are several other use cases where they are a superior input mode. As a detractor of these devices and someone who will never own one unless it does all the voice recognition locally, I found this to my surprise and regret. First is when your hands are full. If you're in the kitchen, or working with tools, you can get a unit conversion, look up some fact, or change the music. Second is as an input device to a TV. Particularly when there are a number of different applications you could open. Fidgeting around with a remote is difficult, and even if you had a keyboard it might be on the other side of the room from where you are. (Part of the problem being solved here is integration between apps and input devices, not just the voice input.) Despite their advantages, the current situation is as if you could only buy a keyboard from 2 or 3 companies, and you were only allowed to type things that they allowed on it. And all your keystrokes were sent to their servers to be interpreted first.

sokoloff 6y ago

My kitchen Alexa has an excellent user interface for kitchen timers and casual music listening IMO.

Spivak 6y ago
For me the killer app for voice assistants is in the kitchen 100%. Being able to juggle a bunch of timers, control the AC and fans, dictate to multiple lists, play music, control the TV, and respond to texts while my hands are covered in food is easily worth the like $40 the thing cost. I'm not super impressed with any of the assistants "smart" features but in terms of being able to shout canned commands at it in a noisy environment it's top notch.

Timpy 6y ago

In this case "brand loyalty" is just the chrysalis of vendor lock. At first you use it because it's convenient, then the model changes and your digital ecosystem is held hostage. Microsoft did this with my generation and Office, Google is capturing the next generation with Docs and Chromebooks in every school. Amazon microphones endeavor to be brand-synonymous with smart homes of the future. The more they can integrate with your Amazon account, phone, tablet, Smart-TV, HVAC, security, grocery list, etc., the more "brand loyal" you will be.

Loughla 6y ago

>Most normal people do not care about them, nor use them. >There is vocal but relatively niche group of tech enthusiasts who are really into it, but they are already a brand loyalists. Are you serious? My 97 year old grandpa even asked me to set up an Alexa for him, so he could shout at her to check the weather. My most tech illiterate friends LOVE those devices, because they're so easy to use.

jakear 6y ago
Yep.. and if a privacy-positive company (say, apple) were to create a voice calling device (Facebook portal, echo show), I’d buy it for the grandparents in a heartbeat. The current system involves a nearby grandchild driving an hour there and back every time we want to have a family video chat to get their computers back into the state we told them to never modify.
- ngneer 6y ago
  Have they perhaps figured that part out? And suddenly the computer is "broken"? Count on me to do that when the time comes...
  - jakear 6y ago
    Do you mean to say my grandparents are purposely breaking the computer for more face time with the grandkids? I could see it, though this has only really been a necessity post-COVID, when it’d really be much better for them to not have a lot of physical interactions with those outside their local friend pod.
- robin_reala 6y ago
  iPad, child mode, turn off every other app from Facetime and Siri, and turn off the app store: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201304#allow-apps https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201304#allow-apps

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

There is a beautiful essay by Nassim Nicholas Taleb Nassim Nicholas Taleb titled, "The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority" that bears reading. Vocal minorities do change society. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Fjolsvith 6y ago

The ability to say, "Google, text my wife and tell her I will be home after 8", is truly invaluable while driving.

ratel 6y ago
It would be indeed a great feature if that was something only shared between you and your wife. Alas you get a lot of extras to go with it: An algorithm decides that you then must be hungry so ads for Arby's (they really can't rely on word of mouth) keep popping up in your navigation. After three such messages an algorithm decides your wife might be in the market for a divorce lawyer, because in 50%+ percent of the cases this might be a sign of marital disagreement. Your wife's newsfeeds change just a little because she is now deemed pro-divorce with messages about huge settlements and divorce horror stories, because those keep people engaged. Safe driving...
- Fjolsvith 6y ago
  Actually, I've never seen an ad in my navigation (Google Maps).
  - c22 6y ago
    Really? Just the other day it told me to turn left at the Starbucks.
    - shadowgovt 6y ago
      The system knows about some buildings as landmarks. I don't think I would categorize that as advertising; "turn left at the Starbucks" is an extremely human way to give directions. I haven't thought about it as advertising when my parents tell people to turn left at the gas station on the corner; There's a gas station on the corner. It's an easy landmark. Two nights ago, I had Maps tell me "turn right after the McDonald's" because there was a McDonald's at the corner.
      - 6y ago

UncleMeat 6y ago

IT professional here. I use a google home and trust it. I’m not a tech enthusiast.

remix2000 6y ago
Professional is a rather broad term. Do you work in ITSec or at least some related field?
- pnutjam 6y ago
  dollars to donuts, app developer or db admin
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    PhD in CS from a top five program, specializing in mobile security. My day job is similar. Why is it so hard to believe that people can be different from you?
    - pnutjam 6y ago
      so you work in infosec? or I'm right about your day job. Education to a Phd Level implies some serious specialization. You say "mobile", but those best practices move pretty quick and yesterday's degree doesn't do much to confer today's knowledge. I know everyone has a different comfort level, but if you have an infosec background you have to admit you're giving away alot of information and potential control. Maybe you're ok with that.
      - UncleMeat 6y ago
        > so you work in infosec? Yes. My daily work is on vuln detection. It's true that the field has moved since I graduated. But I still attend conferences and engage with academics for recruiting purposes.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  I work specifically on mobile security. I have a PhD in CS, specializing in mobile security.

Bud 6y ago

The first line of this comment is your opinion, which can't be false, as it's just an opinion, but the other four lines are all completely false. 1. IT professionals absolutely do use such systems. In droves. It's true that we are more likely to be wary of them, but a large number of IT pros I know and work with do use Alexa/Siri/etc. for home automation and all kinds of other things. And no: smart speakers are not "inferior to any type of input mode", at least not in a wide variety of circumstances. I can turn my air conditioner on or adjust its temperature while lying in bed, without getting up, and without even waking up all the way. Try that with another "type of input mode". I can turn on lights while I am stumbling to the bathroom in the middle of the night, but I can easily use only 10% brightness so as to not wake up my wife. Try that with another input mode. I could go on for pages, but I trust the point is made. 2. There are at least 300 million smart speakers out there already, and the number is growing exponentially. Amazon alone already had 100 million sold by the beginning of 2019. I don't know the exact number right now, but it's a very big number. 3. See #2. 300 million units is not a "niche". 4. Brand loyalty, in fact, gives substantial benefits to the consumer, contrary to your assertion. Greater integration of devices and ease of use is the most obvious one.

tomp 6y ago
> 4. Brand loyalty, in fact, gives substantial benefits to the consumer, contrary to your assertion. Greater integration of devices and ease of use is the most obvious one. No, it's the other way around. I don't get updates on my 3 year old phone because I'm loyal to Apple, I'm loyal to Apple because I get updates on my 3 year old phone.
- braythwayt 6y ago
  Dare I say it can be both? Some things are "virtuous cycles." You get updates, and in your experience those updates add value, which increases your expectation of value should you stick with this phone and possibly replace it with another of the same brand. That IS brand loyalty, generated by delivering value, not just fancy advertising. And conversely, the experience customers have with their phone gives them certain expectations should they buy the matching AirPods rather than Bose or even B&O. When it turns out that the AirPods have special integration with their iPhone, it sets up positive expectations for buying an iPad. And on and on. The value creates brand loyalty, and the brand loyalty leads consumers to buy more products from the same brand, which increases their value because of the integration within the ecosystem. When the brand is actually delivering the value, it's a virtuous cycle: value -> brand loyalty -> more value -> more brand loyalty.

nolok 6y ago

> Highly disagree I think what people actually uses them for is very different than what tech and marketing think its for, but there is a massive market and everyday people love it to play music, call another room in a big house, control the light, check what's on tv tonight and if it's raining tomorrow. Having my 64 years old mom emptying her fridge and then randomly saying "Alexa, what can I cook with VEGETABLE ? [answer] Okay, remind me tomorrow morning" was something very opening, as was "alexa, where is my PRODUCT" to hear about when its delivered. Especially since I - a tech user - was a first buyer of many of these techs but mostly don't use them. My mom doesn't know how to use tech. She makes a face when the TV remote has button that are not numbers and arrows, she still doesn't understand nor care about what the 3 buttons at the bottom of her android phone do (home / back / ...), but she has fully integrated alexa into parts her daily routine, yet completly left it out of others that it could handle. The last time I saw something that eye opening about tech for non tech user was chromecast/firetv. So yes, I totally understand why those companies want that spot, because whoever gets my mom queries gets her ad profile, gets her delivery orders, her music subscription, dictates what compatible brands she will use, etc ...

jakear 6y ago
> whoever gets my mom queries gets her ad profile This got me thinking —- are folks who can’t/won’t/rarely operate computers but are heavy users of voice control living in a post-ad world? Where would personalizes ads even be displayed? All the streaming services don’t have ads (at the right price point), and sure the buying products through voice devices could push particular brands, but amazon already does that with “amazon’s choice” products and I know many people who will only buy those, so nothing is really changing there. Similar for recommended content on streaming services.
- rswail 6y ago
  Alexa, what butter should I order for this recipe? Alexa, buy me the shoes that Kim Kardashian has on her latest instagram pic, size 7. Amazon will control that gateway and can sell those answers to the highest paying advertiser. That's even better than paying for the #1 position on google search.

jayd16 6y ago

I don't buy this at all. This modern incarnation of The Clapper has wide appeal. Everyone wants to turn things on or off. No one wants to get up.

RandoHolmes 6y ago

I've been driving the same vehicle for 16 years and the only parts I've had to replace are the starter (< 3 months ago) and the battery (3 times in 16 years). You damn well better believe I have some brand loyalty.

davidwparker 6y ago

As others stated, you're welcome to your opinions, but those aren't facts. In our household, my wife loves our Google Home's- and uses them constantly. Playing music, broadcasting messages, adding things to grocery list, and following recipes are among her main uses. I tend to use it too for playing music and the grocery list.

analyte123 6y ago

In addition to all the other people saying how this is wrong, particularly for older people and people who are better at speaking and listening than reading and writing, there are several other use cases where they are a superior input mode. As a detractor of these devices and someone who will never own one unless it does all the voice recognition locally, I found this to my surprise and regret. First is when your hands are full. If you're in the kitchen, or working with tools, you can get a unit conversion, look up some fact, or change the music. Second is as an input device to a TV. Particularly when there are a number of different applications you could open. Fidgeting around with a remote is difficult, and even if you had a keyboard it might be on the other side of the room from where you are. (Part of the problem being solved here is integration between apps and input devices, not just the voice input.) Despite their advantages, the current situation is as if you could only buy a keyboard from 2 or 3 companies, and you were only allowed to type things that they allowed on it. And all your keystrokes were sent to their servers to be interpreted first.