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Pretty weak response from the US considering China actually have huge forced labor camps. How about even stronger sanctions? I guess the US is now so dependen

Pretty weak response from the US considering China actually have huge forced labor camps. How about even stronger sanctions? I guess the US is now so dependent on China that they can't?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I don't think it's about dependence. It's just hard to drum up political support given the geopolitics of the situation. Remember that it's only Western countries plus (including?) Japan who even say that there's a problem - much of Africa and the Middle East, including a huge fraction if not a majority of the world's Muslims, explicitly endorse China's actions in Xinjiang. It's not like apartheid, where the country might actually become a pariah if we can just organize against it; most of the world doesn't think China's doing anything wrong.
- ameen 6y ago
  Not really, most of these countries ( African, Middle East and Pakistan ) don’t speak out because their economies depend on it (Belt and Road initiative). None of them have the stability to withstand economic sanctions against them by the Chinese.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I'm skeptical. Many of those same countries regularly speak out against the US, despite the clear economic advantage of staying friendly with Washington. But even if it's true that China's just bullied a bunch of countries into being complicit, their complicity still does make a push for sanctions harder.
    - ameen 6y ago
      There's a clear distinction between the U.S. Government and the CCP. There's valid opposition and differing opinions _within_ Washington. The same cannot be said of CCP. Infamous whistleblowers of the U.S. Government/Washington regularly get airtime. When was the last time you heard of a Snowden/Manning from the CCP?
  - whoevercares 6y ago
    Why and what would Pakistan speak out??
    - muststopmyths 6y ago
      > much of Africa and the Middle East, including a huge fraction if not a majority of the world's Muslims, explicitly endorse China's actions in Xinjiang
lowwave 6y ago
When it comes to food, China import food from other countries, just because they have a lot people and not enough food. https://defensepoliticsasia.com/why-china-import-soybeans-from-the-us/ https://defensepoliticsasia.com/why-china-import-soybeans-fr...
dx87 6y ago
There's a pretty big contigent of people in the USA who claim that any sort of sanctions against China are "sinking to their level" and will just hurt the poor factory employees, or that it's just Trump being racist and making up political reasons to hurt Chinese people.
- mc32 6y ago
  I wonder if the same group of people would also be against boycotts of large companies because they would hurt individual workers?
jonathannat 6y ago
At least this US administration is standing up and doing something about it. Do you see the Germany chancellor sanctioning for Xinjiang concentration labor camps? UK prime minister? French president? Japanese prime minister? Another reason this current administration's hands are tied because it's an election year. And wall street has already raised more money for democrats this past few months than republicans, because of the anti-China stance.
- addicted 6y ago
  This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP. Everything they’ve done since then is a fraction of the massive gift they gave the Chinese. Heck, even the Chinese know what a joke this administration is which is why they basically captured Hong Kong, are trying to destroy Vietnam, extracting as much from Australia and India as they can in the past year while the going is good with the administration. Also, comparing to Germany, a country with a population less than 20% of the US’s which has basically no standing army by design, and hosts massive American bases within it is a complete non sequitur. Why don’t you compare to India, for example, which within weeks of a small border skirmish pretty much eliminated the entirety of Chinese digital companies from the country. Setting aside the wisdom of that decision, if you’re just comparing the actions taken by administrations, India has done far more in far less time that has been far more effective than throwing random tantrums after Xi refused to bribe your President enough.
  - animationwill 6y ago
    > This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP All major candidates of the 2016 election intended to end TPP, so it was dead either way. Only Obama sought to pursue it. To act like it wasn't dead is misinformation
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      This is very disingenuous. I went back and read Clinton's position, which was that the concept of the US pivoting to the Pacific Rim vis a vis trade was critical but that TPP lacked some additional measures she wanted (ex. stronger measures against currency manipulation). I don't think Trump ever articulated a cogent policy position on TPP at all. He did have plenty of his usual free association ranting, though, like: > "And the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership and fast track are a bad, bad deal for American businesses, for workers, for taxpayers. It’s a huge set of handouts for a few insiders that don’t even care about our great, great America."
danielheath 6y ago
This isn’t whataboutism - both are terrible and need to stop - but it’s not like the US government holds the moral high ground here. Forces labor camps are common in the states (I refer, of course, to the practice of arresting people without evidence, then having a judge get paid by a prison operator to funnel them to a prison where they don’t get fed unless they work). One million Uighurs incarcerated would put the Chinese prison population per capita at roughly 1/15th that of the USA.
mlindner 6y ago
Good grief that's quite the response. US is responding more than any other country and you say "well they could do better"? Progress should be praised, not criticized for not doing enough.
- pldr1234 6y ago
  My own country is sadly not responding anywhere near to the level the US is. I rarely wish I was American, but this strong stance against the CCP and it's horrific cruelties is one of those times I stand with America.
idrios 6y ago
It is weak but it's a good minimum. They're banning any product that might have been made from forced labor, which at least sends the message that the US won't be seen as complicit. But agreed, I hope to see stronger sanctions soon.
smegma2 6y ago
I would find this more compelling if you gave examples or countries that had a stronger response, otherwise I don't see a reason to criticize this move.

Pretty weak response from the US considering China actually have huge forced labor camps. How about even stronger sanctions? I guess the US is now so dependent on China that they can't?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I don't think it's about dependence. It's just hard to drum up political support given the geopolitics of the situation. Remember that it's only Western countries plus (including?) Japan who even say that there's a problem - much of Africa and the Middle East, including a huge fraction if not a majority of the world's Muslims, explicitly endorse China's actions in Xinjiang. It's not like apartheid, where the country might actually become a pariah if we can just organize against it; most of the world doesn't think China's doing anything wrong.

ameen 6y ago
Not really, most of these countries ( African, Middle East and Pakistan ) don’t speak out because their economies depend on it (Belt and Road initiative). None of them have the stability to withstand economic sanctions against them by the Chinese.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I'm skeptical. Many of those same countries regularly speak out against the US, despite the clear economic advantage of staying friendly with Washington. But even if it's true that China's just bullied a bunch of countries into being complicit, their complicity still does make a push for sanctions harder.
  - ameen 6y ago
    There's a clear distinction between the U.S. Government and the CCP. There's valid opposition and differing opinions _within_ Washington. The same cannot be said of CCP. Infamous whistleblowers of the U.S. Government/Washington regularly get airtime. When was the last time you heard of a Snowden/Manning from the CCP?
- whoevercares 6y ago
  Why and what would Pakistan speak out??
  - muststopmyths 6y ago
    > much of Africa and the Middle East, including a huge fraction if not a majority of the world's Muslims, explicitly endorse China's actions in Xinjiang

lowwave 6y ago

When it comes to food, China import food from other countries, just because they have a lot people and not enough food. https://defensepoliticsasia.com/why-china-import-soybeans-from-the-us/ https://defensepoliticsasia.com/why-china-import-soybeans-fr...

dx87 6y ago

There's a pretty big contigent of people in the USA who claim that any sort of sanctions against China are "sinking to their level" and will just hurt the poor factory employees, or that it's just Trump being racist and making up political reasons to hurt Chinese people.

mc32 6y ago
I wonder if the same group of people would also be against boycotts of large companies because they would hurt individual workers?

jonathannat 6y ago

At least this US administration is standing up and doing something about it. Do you see the Germany chancellor sanctioning for Xinjiang concentration labor camps? UK prime minister? French president? Japanese prime minister? Another reason this current administration's hands are tied because it's an election year. And wall street has already raised more money for democrats this past few months than republicans, because of the anti-China stance.

addicted 6y ago
This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP. Everything they’ve done since then is a fraction of the massive gift they gave the Chinese. Heck, even the Chinese know what a joke this administration is which is why they basically captured Hong Kong, are trying to destroy Vietnam, extracting as much from Australia and India as they can in the past year while the going is good with the administration. Also, comparing to Germany, a country with a population less than 20% of the US’s which has basically no standing army by design, and hosts massive American bases within it is a complete non sequitur. Why don’t you compare to India, for example, which within weeks of a small border skirmish pretty much eliminated the entirety of Chinese digital companies from the country. Setting aside the wisdom of that decision, if you’re just comparing the actions taken by administrations, India has done far more in far less time that has been far more effective than throwing random tantrums after Xi refused to bribe your President enough.
- animationwill 6y ago
  > This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP All major candidates of the 2016 election intended to end TPP, so it was dead either way. Only Obama sought to pursue it. To act like it wasn't dead is misinformation
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    This is very disingenuous. I went back and read Clinton's position, which was that the concept of the US pivoting to the Pacific Rim vis a vis trade was critical but that TPP lacked some additional measures she wanted (ex. stronger measures against currency manipulation). I don't think Trump ever articulated a cogent policy position on TPP at all. He did have plenty of his usual free association ranting, though, like: > "And the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership and fast track are a bad, bad deal for American businesses, for workers, for taxpayers. It’s a huge set of handouts for a few insiders that don’t even care about our great, great America."

danielheath 6y ago

This isn’t whataboutism - both are terrible and need to stop - but it’s not like the US government holds the moral high ground here. Forces labor camps are common in the states (I refer, of course, to the practice of arresting people without evidence, then having a judge get paid by a prison operator to funnel them to a prison where they don’t get fed unless they work). One million Uighurs incarcerated would put the Chinese prison population per capita at roughly 1/15th that of the USA.

mlindner 6y ago

Good grief that's quite the response. US is responding more than any other country and you say "well they could do better"? Progress should be praised, not criticized for not doing enough.

pldr1234 6y ago
My own country is sadly not responding anywhere near to the level the US is. I rarely wish I was American, but this strong stance against the CCP and it's horrific cruelties is one of those times I stand with America.

idrios 6y ago

It is weak but it's a good minimum. They're banning any product that might have been made from forced labor, which at least sends the message that the US won't be seen as complicit. But agreed, I hope to see stronger sanctions soon.

smegma2 6y ago

I would find this more compelling if you gave examples or countries that had a stronger response, otherwise I don't see a reason to criticize this move.