4 ms·

I hate to say "move", but if dual income is super hard to make ends meet in SV, it's time to move out of SV. The US is huge, there are tons of places with decen

by umvi 6y ago

I hate to say "move", but if dual income is super hard to make ends meet in SV, it's time to move out of SV. The US is huge, there are tons of places with decent tech scene, but affordable housing on a 5-figure salary without needing dual income (Texas, Utah, etc.).

CydeWeys 6y ago
It's easy to say move, but much harder to actually do it. A lot of people flat out cannot afford to move half-way across the country, period, full stop, nor can they afford the added risk of getting new jobs. Plus, odds are good their salary where they're moving to is less, so it's not clear that they'll easily now be able to survive on a single salary anyway. Plus, this solution isn't highly scalable; only so many people can do it.
- ryanobjc 6y ago
  Plus when you land there, you won't be getting help or support. So toss all your support network for more space. For some that's reasonable, but for many it is not, and presuming that it's their own 'fault' for not moving is not charitable.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    That’s what most of the immigrants in Silicon Valley went through..and it seems like they have thrived and haven’t perished due to the move.
- chii 6y ago
  > odds are good their salary where they're moving to is less so you're saying they are already getting the highest salary they could've gotten then (adjusted for cost of living etc)? > this solution isn't highly scalable; only so many people can do it If people move away enmass, then the demand for said worker increases, which should (at least, under the great invisible hand!) increase the salary, and a new balance reached. So it should only take a small % of people moving away due to low pay to affect the pay.
- will4274 6y ago
  > move half-way across the country You don't have to move half-way across the country. Pick any high rent location in the United States, there's a lower rent location 30 minutes away. SV included.
  - CydeWeys 6y ago
    And now you've added another hour's worth of commute every day and are paying more in transportation costs. People are already being forced to do this and it's not that uncommon to see 2+ hour one-way commutes in the Bay Area now. This is clearly not sustainable long-term and is not a good solution for people's welfare, nor for the environment, nor for traffic congestion.
sulam 6y ago
Moving because of the pandemic when it means moving away from jobs (and potentially a career in the case of a technical writer), family, friends you've had since childhood... It's not only not that simple, it's not even clear to me it's the right answer. The right answer is probably something involving employers understanding that this is a hard time right now and you need to be flexible.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  You realize immigrants do that ALL the time for their families, right?
  - sulam 6y ago
    What's your point? Please connect it to the context of this conversation.
    - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
      It was in response to : [..] Plus when you land there, you won't be getting help or support. So toss all your support network for more space. For some that's reasonable, but for many it is not, and presuming that it's their own 'fault' for not moving is not charitable.[..] It is just one more failure to come up with a robust solution to the problem here. Immigrants land in places without a social net or help or support network literally 100% of the time. Often moving to places where language and culture and geography is starkly different from what they are used to reach for their best interests. It is not the end of the world. To refuse to leave the cozy familiarity of ones social network is understandable only to those who feel the he same way. Most immigrants I know leave their home countries and the coziness of familiarity for their children. And moving around America even temporarily is not the same as moving across oceans for a better quality of life.
      - sulam 6y ago
        Yes, all true, but let's not forget the overall context of the OP -- people's reactions to co-workers needing an extra day off. Deciding to uproot your life rather than take advantage of temporary company policies connected to the pandemic seems to be an overreaction.
TallGuyShort 6y ago
From the perspective of their decision, I mostly agree with you. But I hope it's not lost on anyone that if being a nurse is not a viable career, that will ultimately be far more disastrous than any other market inefficiencies.

by umvi 6y ago

CydeWeys 6y ago

It's easy to say move, but much harder to actually do it. A lot of people flat out cannot afford to move half-way across the country, period, full stop, nor can they afford the added risk of getting new jobs. Plus, odds are good their salary where they're moving to is less, so it's not clear that they'll easily now be able to survive on a single salary anyway. Plus, this solution isn't highly scalable; only so many people can do it.

ryanobjc 6y ago
Plus when you land there, you won't be getting help or support. So toss all your support network for more space. For some that's reasonable, but for many it is not, and presuming that it's their own 'fault' for not moving is not charitable.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  That’s what most of the immigrants in Silicon Valley went through..and it seems like they have thrived and haven’t perished due to the move.
chii 6y ago
> odds are good their salary where they're moving to is less so you're saying they are already getting the highest salary they could've gotten then (adjusted for cost of living etc)? > this solution isn't highly scalable; only so many people can do it If people move away enmass, then the demand for said worker increases, which should (at least, under the great invisible hand!) increase the salary, and a new balance reached. So it should only take a small % of people moving away due to low pay to affect the pay.
will4274 6y ago
> move half-way across the country You don't have to move half-way across the country. Pick any high rent location in the United States, there's a lower rent location 30 minutes away. SV included.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  And now you've added another hour's worth of commute every day and are paying more in transportation costs. People are already being forced to do this and it's not that uncommon to see 2+ hour one-way commutes in the Bay Area now. This is clearly not sustainable long-term and is not a good solution for people's welfare, nor for the environment, nor for traffic congestion.

sulam 6y ago

Moving because of the pandemic when it means moving away from jobs (and potentially a career in the case of a technical writer), family, friends you've had since childhood... It's not only not that simple, it's not even clear to me it's the right answer. The right answer is probably something involving employers understanding that this is a hard time right now and you need to be flexible.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
You realize immigrants do that ALL the time for their families, right?
- sulam 6y ago
  What's your point? Please connect it to the context of this conversation.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    It was in response to : [..] Plus when you land there, you won't be getting help or support. So toss all your support network for more space. For some that's reasonable, but for many it is not, and presuming that it's their own 'fault' for not moving is not charitable.[..] It is just one more failure to come up with a robust solution to the problem here. Immigrants land in places without a social net or help or support network literally 100% of the time. Often moving to places where language and culture and geography is starkly different from what they are used to reach for their best interests. It is not the end of the world. To refuse to leave the cozy familiarity of ones social network is understandable only to those who feel the he same way. Most immigrants I know leave their home countries and the coziness of familiarity for their children. And moving around America even temporarily is not the same as moving across oceans for a better quality of life.
    - sulam 6y ago
      Yes, all true, but let's not forget the overall context of the OP -- people's reactions to co-workers needing an extra day off. Deciding to uproot your life rather than take advantage of temporary company policies connected to the pandemic seems to be an overreaction.

TallGuyShort 6y ago

From the perspective of their decision, I mostly agree with you. But I hope it's not lost on anyone that if being a nurse is not a viable career, that will ultimately be far more disastrous than any other market inefficiencies.