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I think you are conflating things. The idea I see behind most self-reliance is that it significantly reduces the amount of wealth needed to accomplish everyday

I think you are conflating things. The idea I see behind most self-reliance is that it significantly reduces the amount of wealth needed to accomplish everyday tasks. Following that, you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so.

war1025 6y ago
> you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so. Exactly this. Money is a way to get other people to do things for you. If you are happier doing the things yourself, the money doesn't have much use. At a certain point, gaining more wealth just doesn't matter.
- derefr 6y ago
  Some things have economies of scale. I could in theory dig minerals out of the ground, refine and distill them, and do the chemistry required to turn them into antibiotics... but that'd be about a million times more expensive (in bootstrapping monetary cost and labor) than just getting together with a bunch of people to found an oil refinery and a drug factory.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Yeah I noticed this. There are lots of kids or people who feel redundant and empty because whatever they want to do they can just buy it or hire someone else to do it for them. No need to do anything yourself but it also means nobody needs you which means people don't see anything in you other than your money. The only way you can liberate yourself from this is by getting your hands dirty yourself.
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    Or by taking pride in the work you do to earn the money.
    - war1025 6y ago
      I really don't think one precludes the other. You can take pride in the work you get paid for and the work you do outside of work just the same.
01100011 6y ago
If only we didn't live in a world of property taxes... Wealth should not be sneered at. Wealth buys a new well for your farm. Wealth buys you tools to expand your capabilities. Wealth allows you to exploit the capabilities of society to accomplish things beyond yourself. Do you want to preserve gun or property rights so you can continue to live a self-reliant lifestyle? That takes wealth(or you can cop-out and let other people do it for you). I am well aware of the saying "sell your time to buy the time that other people sold", but that cynically omits the benefits of comparative advantage. Most HN readers time is far more valuable than a plumber or carpenter.
- s5300 6y ago
  "Most HN readers time is far more valuable than a plumber or carpenter." I think, in the words of today's youth, the response to this is something along the lines of "Big Yikes" That's quite a staunch outlook on society. Do you like playing around in literal shit so that literal shit doesn't back up in your house? Have you automated a system to be able to do this robotically? If not, I'd suggest valuing your plumbers a bit more. Maybe somebody should be showing them these lines of thoughts so they jack up their prices for techies and extract their "value"... Jeez. I'm being snarky. But man, you're being a dick lmao.
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    You're not being snarky. Seems pretty on the mark.
  - bumby 6y ago
    I think part of the problem is we’ve confused (and society has disproportionately valued) what is valuable to the economy vs what is valuable to society. I think it was Penn Jillette who basically said we should most value those who we’d want around in the apocalypse. Farmers, doctors, mechanics would all be worth more than a financier. Maybe the irony is that in the coming decades they will have their comeuppance if their jobs are least likely to be automated away
    - 6y ago

war1025 6y ago

> you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so. Exactly this. Money is a way to get other people to do things for you. If you are happier doing the things yourself, the money doesn't have much use. At a certain point, gaining more wealth just doesn't matter.

derefr 6y ago
Some things have economies of scale. I could in theory dig minerals out of the ground, refine and distill them, and do the chemistry required to turn them into antibiotics... but that'd be about a million times more expensive (in bootstrapping monetary cost and labor) than just getting together with a bunch of people to found an oil refinery and a drug factory.
imtringued 6y ago
Yeah I noticed this. There are lots of kids or people who feel redundant and empty because whatever they want to do they can just buy it or hire someone else to do it for them. No need to do anything yourself but it also means nobody needs you which means people don't see anything in you other than your money. The only way you can liberate yourself from this is by getting your hands dirty yourself.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Or by taking pride in the work you do to earn the money.
  - war1025 6y ago
    I really don't think one precludes the other. You can take pride in the work you get paid for and the work you do outside of work just the same.

01100011 6y ago

If only we didn't live in a world of property taxes... Wealth should not be sneered at. Wealth buys a new well for your farm. Wealth buys you tools to expand your capabilities. Wealth allows you to exploit the capabilities of society to accomplish things beyond yourself. Do you want to preserve gun or property rights so you can continue to live a self-reliant lifestyle? That takes wealth(or you can cop-out and let other people do it for you). I am well aware of the saying "sell your time to buy the time that other people sold", but that cynically omits the benefits of comparative advantage. Most HN readers time is far more valuable than a plumber or carpenter.

s5300 6y ago
"Most HN readers time is far more valuable than a plumber or carpenter." I think, in the words of today's youth, the response to this is something along the lines of "Big Yikes" That's quite a staunch outlook on society. Do you like playing around in literal shit so that literal shit doesn't back up in your house? Have you automated a system to be able to do this robotically? If not, I'd suggest valuing your plumbers a bit more. Maybe somebody should be showing them these lines of thoughts so they jack up their prices for techies and extract their "value"... Jeez. I'm being snarky. But man, you're being a dick lmao.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  You're not being snarky. Seems pretty on the mark.
- bumby 6y ago
  I think part of the problem is we’ve confused (and society has disproportionately valued) what is valuable to the economy vs what is valuable to society. I think it was Penn Jillette who basically said we should most value those who we’d want around in the apocalypse. Farmers, doctors, mechanics would all be worth more than a financier. Maybe the irony is that in the coming decades they will have their comeuppance if their jobs are least likely to be automated away
  - 6y ago