8 ms·

Pretty much the same, I can re-wire a house (factory actually though it's been a long time since I trained as an industrial sparks), plaster, do basic joinery,

Pretty much the same, I can re-wire a house (factory actually though it's been a long time since I trained as an industrial sparks), plaster, do basic joinery, plumbing, tiling, engine/motorcycle maintenance (I do my motorcycle and rebuilt scramblers when I was a kid), weld (not done it for a long time but it'd come back), sheet metal work etc all to a reasonable or better standard. I've never lived out in the country, always in or on the edges of towns, 80% of anything is been willing to give it a go, the other 20% is been willing to learn from fucking it up the first time. I genuinely don't understand people who aren't willing to learn this stuff even if they pay someone else to do it down the line (which makes sense sometimes). I know people my age who can't rewire a plug which is frankly embarrassing. > A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. (Time enough for Love - Heinlein)

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
>80% of anything is been willing to give it a go, the other 20% is been willing to learn from fucking it up the first time. Them's the old rules. New rules: 45% of it is being willing to give it a go, 65% of it is knowing how to find the right YouTube video to watch so you don't fuck it up. :)
- noir_lord 6y ago
  Nah you look for the youtube video after you've fucked it up. Honestly though YouTube and the patient people who set out to show you how to do something is great (particulary the creators), it is an amazing resource for that.
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    Parent knows that That's why it takes 110% of the time.
- bluGill 6y ago
  The first 10% is knowing what is dangerous enough that you need to look up how to do is safely first. I've worked on high voltage electronics - I'm still here because I knew to figure out safety first.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    Same with gas (not petrol), it's the one thing in my house I absolutely would not under any circumstances touch. Electricity I understand and how to work safely with it, water is the same (and the outcome isn't likely to kill you) but gas, gas will blow out the walls. It's remarkable how safe we made it actually when you think about it but all of those lessons where often learnt in blood and strife.
    - PeterisP 6y ago
      Gas is crazy. The only time I needed to have gas pipes rerouted, it needed a change before the meter and the shut-off valve. So the gas company guys started the work ... by cutting a live gas pipe, intentionally lighting the leaking gas on fire, and welding a connection while the not-yet-welded hole was acting as a small flamethrower. Apparently that's considered safe to do with low-pressure small diameter pipes, but it seemed absolutely, totally insane.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        burning gas never builds up to explosive concentrations, so it is what they do. I've heard other stories. A friend of mine cut a gas main digging, and when he called emergency they told him he should have lit a match instantly, it is too late now just evacuate the neighborhood. (the gas company was mad until he pointed out the gas main markings a safe distance away from where he was digging)
- cik2e 6y ago
  Oh man, YouTube is such a godsend when it comes to learning so many things but it also promotes terrible behavior for those looking to monetize information that would be better served up as plain text. Anything physical, such as learning an exercise or doing a car repair falls into the former category. On the other hand, there is a lot of very good talking head content that could be served up as plain text. Instead it’s gated in the form of video purely for YouTube monetization. I would gladly pay money for quality transcripts if that was an option.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    A lot of the useful "how-to" content on youtube is created by people wanting to make a buck from creating the videos.
nerdponx 6y ago
It's not always a matter of willingness. Many people didn't have opportunities early in life to learn these skills, and as older adults they probably don't have the free time.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  True plus modern urban living means people don't have sheds/garages both of which I had access to growing up with a lot of the tools as well.
01100011 6y ago
> I genuinely don't understand people who aren't willing to learn this stuff even if they pay someone else to do it As a rich guy I knew used to say, do what you do best, and give away all the rest. I spent my 30s doing all the things you mentioned and more. There was some joy in it, I will admit, but I am vastly less wealthy than if I had focused on my consulting business and learned how to negotiate and supervise the outsourcing of those tasks. I know a lot of 'do it yourself' types and none of them are wealthy. I know a lot of wealthy people and none of them are 'do it yourself' types. It sucks to admit it, because there is a lot of 'manliness' associated with self-reliance, but it is often a foolish pursuit. Comparative advantage is real and you can use it to get ahead in life.
- cycloptic 6y ago
  I think you are conflating things. The idea I see behind most self-reliance is that it significantly reduces the amount of wealth needed to accomplish everyday tasks. Following that, you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so.
  - war1025 6y ago
    > you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so. Exactly this. Money is a way to get other people to do things for you. If you are happier doing the things yourself, the money doesn't have much use. At a certain point, gaining more wealth just doesn't matter.
    - derefr 6y ago
      Some things have economies of scale. I could in theory dig minerals out of the ground, refine and distill them, and do the chemistry required to turn them into antibiotics... but that'd be about a million times more expensive (in bootstrapping monetary cost and labor) than just getting together with a bunch of people to found an oil refinery and a drug factory.
    - imtringued 6y ago
Vrondi 6y ago
I was completely flummoxed when I went away to college and found I was the only person in my entire dormitory with a screwdriver, pliers, or a hammer. Nobody else was able to put together the end table they'd bought, hang a picture, etc. I was mystified that anyone would go to live somewhere for a 9 month stretch, full time, and not bring a screwdriver (or a first aid kit). Likewise the many people who didn't bring curtains or even a bowl or mug (the college had sent every incoming student a list of suggested items to bring, including window measurements). Forget the people who couldn't wash their own clothes. Some people are just raised to be useless human beings.
ramchip 6y ago
> I know people my age who can't rewire a plug which is frankly embarrassing. I’m sure there’s a country / culture factor there, but that’s rather condescending. I’m in my thirties, and there isn’t a single place I’ve lived in as an adult where it would have been OK for me to mess with the electricity, plumbing, or even paint the walls.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  Putting a new plug on your kettle is allowed in all 50 states and most if not all of western Europe.
  - ramchip 6y ago
    I misunderstood then - I interpreted the parent as being about the wall socket, because I wasn't aware that rewiring the actual plug was a thing you could do (or that these things ever failed, in fact). I guess I'm a double embarrassment then!
    - srtjstjsj 6y ago
      You're not an embarrassment. Different people know different things. Rewiring a plug is an extremely rare need..2
lmm 6y ago
> I genuinely don't understand people who aren't willing to learn this stuff even if they pay someone else to do it down the line (which makes sense sometimes). Eh, I've only got so many hours on the planet, I've got a lot more spare money than spare time. I'd really rather just pay someone to fix it and spend my time doing something more fun.
- imtringued 6y ago
  I don't know. Just buying something is usually boring and makes you feel powerless.
Frondo 6y ago
That Heinlein quote is nice, but also a little absurd. I can change a wall outlet or a light switch, but if I'm rewiring my house, I'm calling my brother-in-law, the electrician, just like he calls me when he wants a trumpet player. (And if he wants a guitar player, he calls my brother, not me.) Specialization is for people in communities, which we all are whether we want to admit it or not.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Building a moral philosophy around a fiction author who didn't even follow his own advice is absurd.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago

>80% of anything is been willing to give it a go, the other 20% is been willing to learn from fucking it up the first time. Them's the old rules. New rules: 45% of it is being willing to give it a go, 65% of it is knowing how to find the right YouTube video to watch so you don't fuck it up. :)

noir_lord 6y ago
Nah you look for the youtube video after you've fucked it up. Honestly though YouTube and the patient people who set out to show you how to do something is great (particulary the creators), it is an amazing resource for that.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Parent knows that That's why it takes 110% of the time.
bluGill 6y ago
The first 10% is knowing what is dangerous enough that you need to look up how to do is safely first. I've worked on high voltage electronics - I'm still here because I knew to figure out safety first.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  Same with gas (not petrol), it's the one thing in my house I absolutely would not under any circumstances touch. Electricity I understand and how to work safely with it, water is the same (and the outcome isn't likely to kill you) but gas, gas will blow out the walls. It's remarkable how safe we made it actually when you think about it but all of those lessons where often learnt in blood and strife.
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    Gas is crazy. The only time I needed to have gas pipes rerouted, it needed a change before the meter and the shut-off valve. So the gas company guys started the work ... by cutting a live gas pipe, intentionally lighting the leaking gas on fire, and welding a connection while the not-yet-welded hole was acting as a small flamethrower. Apparently that's considered safe to do with low-pressure small diameter pipes, but it seemed absolutely, totally insane.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      burning gas never builds up to explosive concentrations, so it is what they do. I've heard other stories. A friend of mine cut a gas main digging, and when he called emergency they told him he should have lit a match instantly, it is too late now just evacuate the neighborhood. (the gas company was mad until he pointed out the gas main markings a safe distance away from where he was digging)
cik2e 6y ago
Oh man, YouTube is such a godsend when it comes to learning so many things but it also promotes terrible behavior for those looking to monetize information that would be better served up as plain text. Anything physical, such as learning an exercise or doing a car repair falls into the former category. On the other hand, there is a lot of very good talking head content that could be served up as plain text. Instead it’s gated in the form of video purely for YouTube monetization. I would gladly pay money for quality transcripts if that was an option.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  A lot of the useful "how-to" content on youtube is created by people wanting to make a buck from creating the videos.

nerdponx 6y ago

It's not always a matter of willingness. Many people didn't have opportunities early in life to learn these skills, and as older adults they probably don't have the free time.

noir_lord 6y ago
True plus modern urban living means people don't have sheds/garages both of which I had access to growing up with a lot of the tools as well.

01100011 6y ago

> I genuinely don't understand people who aren't willing to learn this stuff even if they pay someone else to do it As a rich guy I knew used to say, do what you do best, and give away all the rest. I spent my 30s doing all the things you mentioned and more. There was some joy in it, I will admit, but I am vastly less wealthy than if I had focused on my consulting business and learned how to negotiate and supervise the outsourcing of those tasks. I know a lot of 'do it yourself' types and none of them are wealthy. I know a lot of wealthy people and none of them are 'do it yourself' types. It sucks to admit it, because there is a lot of 'manliness' associated with self-reliance, but it is often a foolish pursuit. Comparative advantage is real and you can use it to get ahead in life.

cycloptic 6y ago
I think you are conflating things. The idea I see behind most self-reliance is that it significantly reduces the amount of wealth needed to accomplish everyday tasks. Following that, you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so.
- war1025 6y ago
  > you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so. Exactly this. Money is a way to get other people to do things for you. If you are happier doing the things yourself, the money doesn't have much use. At a certain point, gaining more wealth just doesn't matter.
  - derefr 6y ago
    Some things have economies of scale. I could in theory dig minerals out of the ground, refine and distill them, and do the chemistry required to turn them into antibiotics... but that'd be about a million times more expensive (in bootstrapping monetary cost and labor) than just getting together with a bunch of people to found an oil refinery and a drug factory.
  - imtringued 6y ago

Vrondi 6y ago

I was completely flummoxed when I went away to college and found I was the only person in my entire dormitory with a screwdriver, pliers, or a hammer. Nobody else was able to put together the end table they'd bought, hang a picture, etc. I was mystified that anyone would go to live somewhere for a 9 month stretch, full time, and not bring a screwdriver (or a first aid kit). Likewise the many people who didn't bring curtains or even a bowl or mug (the college had sent every incoming student a list of suggested items to bring, including window measurements). Forget the people who couldn't wash their own clothes. Some people are just raised to be useless human beings.

ramchip 6y ago

> I know people my age who can't rewire a plug which is frankly embarrassing. I’m sure there’s a country / culture factor there, but that’s rather condescending. I’m in my thirties, and there isn’t a single place I’ve lived in as an adult where it would have been OK for me to mess with the electricity, plumbing, or even paint the walls.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
Putting a new plug on your kettle is allowed in all 50 states and most if not all of western Europe.
- ramchip 6y ago
  I misunderstood then - I interpreted the parent as being about the wall socket, because I wasn't aware that rewiring the actual plug was a thing you could do (or that these things ever failed, in fact). I guess I'm a double embarrassment then!
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    You're not an embarrassment. Different people know different things. Rewiring a plug is an extremely rare need..2

lmm 6y ago

> I genuinely don't understand people who aren't willing to learn this stuff even if they pay someone else to do it down the line (which makes sense sometimes). Eh, I've only got so many hours on the planet, I've got a lot more spare money than spare time. I'd really rather just pay someone to fix it and spend my time doing something more fun.

imtringued 6y ago
I don't know. Just buying something is usually boring and makes you feel powerless.

Frondo 6y ago

That Heinlein quote is nice, but also a little absurd. I can change a wall outlet or a light switch, but if I'm rewiring my house, I'm calling my brother-in-law, the electrician, just like he calls me when he wants a trumpet player. (And if he wants a guitar player, he calls my brother, not me.) Specialization is for people in communities, which we all are whether we want to admit it or not.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
Building a moral philosophy around a fiction author who didn't even follow his own advice is absurd.