5 ms·

The US didn't do anything when Russia took Crimea, why would they do anything now?

acdha 6y ago
The U.S. didn’t respond with military force but you may recall the sanctions which were apparently motivational in Putin’s decision to become more involved in steering the next U.S. election to Trump. The main advantage now is that nobody is kidding themselves about the level of possible outcomes but this time it’s largely the EU having to take the lead with an unusually passive US government.
skitout 6y ago
Russia took Crimea in response of having "lost" Ukraine following a pro-west colored revolution, that had probably helped by foreign interests (USA is probably part of the equation)... Crimea was quite already Russian anyways... Following what happened, USA and the west put economic sanctions against Russia
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > in response of having "lost" Ukraine following a pro-west colored revolution, that had probably helped by foreign interests By that line of logic, the U.S. "lost" Western Europe at the end of World War II, Mongolia lost Russia after Genghis Khan died and Belarus should return to the dominions of Kiev [1] and Warsaw [2]. It isn't until almost the 19th century, under Catherine the Great, that what is today Belarus fell under Moscow's control [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Partition_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Partition_of_Poland
  - skitout 6y ago
    Sorry I have not been precise. Ukraine was not part of Russia, but under Russian influence. And Ukraine in very important for Russia (ans Belarus share this same characteristics) as this gives access to Russia's core, without natural barriers...
    - RealityVoid 6y ago
      Frankly, this whole "gives access to Russia's core, without natural barriers" is ridiculous. I'm not saying that having the geopoliticsl wheels turn is not possible, but Russia has absolutely no expansionist neighbors and I seriously doubt there had been anyone in the last, oh, 30 years, that wanted to invade Russia. Overall, the current pose of Russia is of its own doing.
      - skitout 6y ago
        30 years in geopolitics and in history is nothing... And I guess many Russian would feel the West, NATO, USA had been expansionist, as they "aggressively" expand their area of influence (colored revolution being one tactic) in Russia backyard, at the expense of Russia and Russian influence...
        takeda 6y ago
        That's strange way to put it, when the European countries typically fight to join NATO. In that region no one trusts Russia, and they want to be part of NATO to increase their chances of not being invaded. In fact Ukraine was on track to join it, exactly because they were afraid of Russia.
        skitout 6y ago
        Well, it make total sense that for example Poland wanted to join NATO. Still, this move was certainly seen as a expansionist and threatening move by the Russian. And the fact the West seems to had informally committed to not enlarge NATO to the East [1] [2] makes the offense worse. And then Poland was not just a lambda NATO country, but a country where USA and NATO actively put a lot of resources that seem threatening in a Russian point of view. If you add to that the "colored revolutions", well, it is clear that the West "actively" "attacked" Russia's zone of influence. Not saying it is good or bad, just trying to describe what happened. [1] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russi... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO#German_reunification_and_relations_with_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO#German_reu...
- literallycancer 6y ago
  What's the point of parroting Lavrov here? Are we supposed to empathize with Putin? Poor Putin lost his buffer? NATO and Soros are bullying poor little Russia?

The U.S. didn’t respond with military force but you may recall the sanctions which were apparently motivational in Putin’s decision to become more involved in steering the next U.S. election to Trump. The main advantage now is that nobody is kidding themselves about the level of possible outcomes but this time it’s largely the EU having to take the lead with an unusually passive US government.

skitout 6y ago

Russia took Crimea in response of having "lost" Ukraine following a pro-west colored revolution, that had probably helped by foreign interests (USA is probably part of the equation)... Crimea was quite already Russian anyways... Following what happened, USA and the west put economic sanctions against Russia

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> in response of having "lost" Ukraine following a pro-west colored revolution, that had probably helped by foreign interests By that line of logic, the U.S. "lost" Western Europe at the end of World War II, Mongolia lost Russia after Genghis Khan died and Belarus should return to the dominions of Kiev [1] and Warsaw [2]. It isn't until almost the 19th century, under Catherine the Great, that what is today Belarus fell under Moscow's control [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Partition_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Partition_of_Poland
- skitout 6y ago
  Sorry I have not been precise. Ukraine was not part of Russia, but under Russian influence. And Ukraine in very important for Russia (ans Belarus share this same characteristics) as this gives access to Russia's core, without natural barriers...
  - RealityVoid 6y ago
    Frankly, this whole "gives access to Russia's core, without natural barriers" is ridiculous. I'm not saying that having the geopoliticsl wheels turn is not possible, but Russia has absolutely no expansionist neighbors and I seriously doubt there had been anyone in the last, oh, 30 years, that wanted to invade Russia. Overall, the current pose of Russia is of its own doing.
    - skitout 6y ago
      30 years in geopolitics and in history is nothing... And I guess many Russian would feel the West, NATO, USA had been expansionist, as they "aggressively" expand their area of influence (colored revolution being one tactic) in Russia backyard, at the expense of Russia and Russian influence...
      - takeda 6y ago
        That's strange way to put it, when the European countries typically fight to join NATO. In that region no one trusts Russia, and they want to be part of NATO to increase their chances of not being invaded. In fact Ukraine was on track to join it, exactly because they were afraid of Russia.
        skitout 6y ago
        Well, it make total sense that for example Poland wanted to join NATO. Still, this move was certainly seen as a expansionist and threatening move by the Russian. And the fact the West seems to had informally committed to not enlarge NATO to the East [1] [2] makes the offense worse. And then Poland was not just a lambda NATO country, but a country where USA and NATO actively put a lot of resources that seem threatening in a Russian point of view. If you add to that the "colored revolutions", well, it is clear that the West "actively" "attacked" Russia's zone of influence. Not saying it is good or bad, just trying to describe what happened. [1] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russi... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO#German_reunification_and_relations_with_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO#German_reu...
literallycancer 6y ago
What's the point of parroting Lavrov here? Are we supposed to empathize with Putin? Poor Putin lost his buffer? NATO and Soros are bullying poor little Russia?