2 ms·

If he read the article it says the mandated minimum wage for a rider is $35,000, but most riders make more than that. You might have a hard time living in say

by rmason 6y ago

If he read the article it says the mandated minimum wage for a rider is $35,000, but most riders make more than that. You might have a hard time living in say California on that wage but in parts of rural Europe you could get by comfortably. You definitely could in Michigan.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
That depends on how much of the work related expenses are handled by the team. If they have to pay for their own travel, that'd be several grand right there. Plus, it wouldn't be surprising if the team mandates where you live.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
How can you get by comfortably in Michigan with a $35k income when health insurance deductibles are $5k+ and out of pocket maximums are $6k to $8k and premiums are ~$2.5k+ per year? Plus federal income, FICA, state income, sales taxes, and Michigan’s famously high car insurance prices? Add on saving for retirement / emergency healthcare expenses. Doesn’t leave much for a comfortable day to day life, especially if you have or intend to support a family.
- valuearb 6y ago
  You understand only a small percentage of insured get anywhere near their deductibles in any year let alone their out of pocket maximums? Private Insurance is there to prevent you from losing your home or racking up a massive debt, not pay for every single medical expense.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Childbirth will get you there in no time. My under 1 year old had to go to doctor 3 times for various normal infections from daycare in February this year and it cost $850, plus $80 for a state mandated lead test that I just got a bill for. The point is $35k per year gives you no breathing room, and certainly doesn’t quality as comfortable. Even for single young people in great health, they can’t build any wealth and they will lose whatever they do get due to various health/auto/etc issues that come up.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Sure but $35K a year is fine for a young man looking to start a career in competitive cycling. He doesn’t need to save his way to build wealth, his role is a lottery ticket itself, if he moves up he’ll make ten times as much, if he doesn’t he quits after four or five years and gets a “real job”.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > You understand only a small percentage of insured get anywhere near their deductibles in any year let alone their out of pocket maximums? A significant minority of the insured (and close to a majority, in the Bay Area) have HMOs, which are mostly no-deductible.
- rmason 6y ago
  These athletes are young men. They might still be living at home. The team takes care of their health insurance. If they're 22 and married with two kids with their partner not working yes it would be tough. However the average income in Detroit is less than $30,000.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    My intention is to point out that people with average incomes do not live “comfortably”.
    - creato 6y ago
      What is your definition of comfortable? Because if 20 year old mostly single people earning the average income isn't it, then I'm not sure your expectation is realistic. Even if you redistribute all income equally, the average isn't going to change. I do think income inequality is a problem, however.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      60% of humanity doesn't have indoor plumbing. The bottom quintile in America is living pretty comfortably compared to most.
      - oblio 6y ago
        I don't know if you're American, but if you are, comparing America to the world average is comparing apples to oranges. Most of the world has been occupied or has had wars fought on its territory in the past 150 years. Most of the world lives in a country that has a neighboring country of similar heft, and usually much bigger, that interferes with local politics much more than the US has ever had foreign intervention. Most of the world lives in a country which isn't basically an entire continent's worth of resources. Most of the world doesn't live in a country where per capita incomes are among the top 10% in the world and the middle + upper classes are 200+ million strong.
    - smabie 6y ago
      I dunno, I made less than that when I was young and I was happy and had enough money to drink, go out once a week, etc. Felt pretty comfortable to me. I lived in Africa a couple years as well, and Americans have such a distorted sense of what poverty is. Travel to other places and gain some perspective.
mtts 6y ago
Salaries work a little differently for pro athletes: they're not just earning money to live off now, but they also need to save up for when their career inevitably ends and they don't have any other skill to fall back on. Seen in that light, $35,000 isn't much.
- lambda 6y ago
  There are options for pro athletes after their athletic career, as trainers, speakers, organizers of amateur events, etc. For the major US pro sports, some or all of their draft is from colleges in order to encourage post-secondary education and leave players with more options after their career. I'm not sure how many pro cyclists do college, but I knew some folks when I went to college who were fairly high amateur and I believe looking to go pro.

by rmason 6y ago

boomboomsubban 6y ago

That depends on how much of the work related expenses are handled by the team. If they have to pay for their own travel, that'd be several grand right there. Plus, it wouldn't be surprising if the team mandates where you live.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

How can you get by comfortably in Michigan with a $35k income when health insurance deductibles are $5k+ and out of pocket maximums are $6k to $8k and premiums are ~$2.5k+ per year? Plus federal income, FICA, state income, sales taxes, and Michigan’s famously high car insurance prices? Add on saving for retirement / emergency healthcare expenses. Doesn’t leave much for a comfortable day to day life, especially if you have or intend to support a family.

valuearb 6y ago
You understand only a small percentage of insured get anywhere near their deductibles in any year let alone their out of pocket maximums? Private Insurance is there to prevent you from losing your home or racking up a massive debt, not pay for every single medical expense.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Childbirth will get you there in no time. My under 1 year old had to go to doctor 3 times for various normal infections from daycare in February this year and it cost $850, plus $80 for a state mandated lead test that I just got a bill for. The point is $35k per year gives you no breathing room, and certainly doesn’t quality as comfortable. Even for single young people in great health, they can’t build any wealth and they will lose whatever they do get due to various health/auto/etc issues that come up.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Sure but $35K a year is fine for a young man looking to start a career in competitive cycling. He doesn’t need to save his way to build wealth, his role is a lottery ticket itself, if he moves up he’ll make ten times as much, if he doesn’t he quits after four or five years and gets a “real job”.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > You understand only a small percentage of insured get anywhere near their deductibles in any year let alone their out of pocket maximums? A significant minority of the insured (and close to a majority, in the Bay Area) have HMOs, which are mostly no-deductible.
rmason 6y ago
These athletes are young men. They might still be living at home. The team takes care of their health insurance. If they're 22 and married with two kids with their partner not working yes it would be tough. However the average income in Detroit is less than $30,000.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  My intention is to point out that people with average incomes do not live “comfortably”.
  - creato 6y ago
    What is your definition of comfortable? Because if 20 year old mostly single people earning the average income isn't it, then I'm not sure your expectation is realistic. Even if you redistribute all income equally, the average isn't going to change. I do think income inequality is a problem, however.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    60% of humanity doesn't have indoor plumbing. The bottom quintile in America is living pretty comfortably compared to most.
    - oblio 6y ago
      I don't know if you're American, but if you are, comparing America to the world average is comparing apples to oranges. Most of the world has been occupied or has had wars fought on its territory in the past 150 years. Most of the world lives in a country that has a neighboring country of similar heft, and usually much bigger, that interferes with local politics much more than the US has ever had foreign intervention. Most of the world lives in a country which isn't basically an entire continent's worth of resources. Most of the world doesn't live in a country where per capita incomes are among the top 10% in the world and the middle + upper classes are 200+ million strong.
  - smabie 6y ago
    I dunno, I made less than that when I was young and I was happy and had enough money to drink, go out once a week, etc. Felt pretty comfortable to me. I lived in Africa a couple years as well, and Americans have such a distorted sense of what poverty is. Travel to other places and gain some perspective.

mtts 6y ago

Salaries work a little differently for pro athletes: they're not just earning money to live off now, but they also need to save up for when their career inevitably ends and they don't have any other skill to fall back on. Seen in that light, $35,000 isn't much.

lambda 6y ago
There are options for pro athletes after their athletic career, as trainers, speakers, organizers of amateur events, etc. For the major US pro sports, some or all of their draft is from colleges in order to encourage post-secondary education and leave players with more options after their career. I'm not sure how many pro cyclists do college, but I knew some folks when I went to college who were fairly high amateur and I believe looking to go pro.