5 ms·

C# doesn't follow fashion either, it does things that actually work before the dust settles on them. I think you'll find many people outside the HN crowd also

C# doesn't follow fashion either, it does things that actually work before the dust settles on them. I think you'll find many people outside the HN crowd also appreciate their approach over trying to appease the kinds of customer needs that involve keeping 25 year old binary only jars running. To me .NET Core is a shining example of that

bartwe 6y ago
C# has been moving much more quickly since then, async/await comes to mind as a feature that didn't work out
- thelazydogsback 6y ago
  How did they not work out??
  - vips7L 6y ago
    Mainly because its the colored function problem. You end up having to change the call stack all the way up to Task<T>. Once you start using them, everything is a Task.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Or polluting the code with a couple of Task.Run() to avoid having to do just that.
pjmlp 6y ago
.NET Core has been so good managed, that I a project back in the .NET Core 2.0 days to port an application to Java, because the customer wanted to move the application to UNIX (not just Linux flavours), and not all necessary features could be done in Core. To this day there are plenty of libraries that are yet to run on either Core or outside UNIX. Plus not everyone is happy how the whole Core, .NET 5, .NET Native, Reunion, UWP, CoreRT, Xamarin, MAUI, Blazor is being managed. A language alone isn't enough.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  I mean .NET Core is targeting Linux, is that really a sign of mismanagement? And to your second point.. I mean you're comparing concepts at very different levels of a stack. Your list includes a language runtime, a web framework, an OS specific application format/framework? It's like saying "Java, HotspotVM, JavaFX, Tomcat, Android APK, Vert.X"... In reality it's ".NET Core and .NET Framework". And while there have been some growing pains as the term .NET became overloaded, it's always been clear .NET Core is where they want people to be, .NET Framework exists because migration to a new platform wasn't going to happen overnight. Every year there's more and more .NET Core compatibility, they've done a good job with .NET Core so more people are willing to use it (and port packages to it) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/choosing-core-framework-server https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/choosing-co...
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Naturally I am comparing all levels of the stack, as I mention on my comment a language alone is useless. Yes, the future is .NET Core, however pretending that outside Windows it can match Java offerings just reveals a complete lack of knowledge of all kinds of platforms that have Java support available for them. Guys like PTC, Aicas, Gemalto, microEJ doing embedded real time Java, selling M2M devices, IBM and Unisys mainframes, 80% of the mobile world (even if it is an adulterated flavour of coffee), smartcards, blue ray players, healthcare and TV settop boxes, kiosks and plenty of other use cases. .NET is catching up with 25 years of Java doing cross platform development, while anything that came out of Redmond has been mostly Windows only for 20 years. .NET Core only supports the three major mainstream OSes, zero support for anything else, and has the growing pains of a platform where plenty of third parties are yet to release anything on Core. Sitecore just released their first version on .NET Core earlier this month, and I don't see anyone rushing to upgrade. Doing WPF, Forms? Good luck with many GUI component libraries. Apparently the designers are going to miss .NET 5 for full stability. The beautiful thing with being a polyglot consultant is that I don't have to convince myself that I am using the best stuff as "Developer X", I just use whatever stack the customer asks for and then move on.
Const-me 6y ago
> over trying to appease the kinds of customer needs that involve keeping 25 year old binary only jars running C# doesn’t break too many things while it evolves. Example: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.collections.arraylist?view=netcore-3.1 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.collectio... That class was introduced in .NET 1.1 way before generic, still present in the most recent .NET Core 3.1. They sometimes deprecate higher-level stuff, but very conservatively so. E.g. asp.net web forms (2002) is deprecated, while windows forms (also 2002) is still supported.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Try to run random .NET Framework Assemblies on .NET Core or .NET Native, this is what Java philosophy tries to avoid. Forms designer is still broken on .NET 5, and it might not make it to the final release.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    This is a single breaking jump after 20 years. This migration is really needed and well considered.

bartwe 6y ago

C# has been moving much more quickly since then, async/await comes to mind as a feature that didn't work out

thelazydogsback 6y ago
How did they not work out??
- vips7L 6y ago
  Mainly because its the colored function problem. You end up having to change the call stack all the way up to Task<T>. Once you start using them, everything is a Task.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Or polluting the code with a couple of Task.Run() to avoid having to do just that.

pjmlp 6y ago

.NET Core has been so good managed, that I a project back in the .NET Core 2.0 days to port an application to Java, because the customer wanted to move the application to UNIX (not just Linux flavours), and not all necessary features could be done in Core. To this day there are plenty of libraries that are yet to run on either Core or outside UNIX. Plus not everyone is happy how the whole Core, .NET 5, .NET Native, Reunion, UWP, CoreRT, Xamarin, MAUI, Blazor is being managed. A language alone isn't enough.

BoorishBears 6y ago
I mean .NET Core is targeting Linux, is that really a sign of mismanagement? And to your second point.. I mean you're comparing concepts at very different levels of a stack. Your list includes a language runtime, a web framework, an OS specific application format/framework? It's like saying "Java, HotspotVM, JavaFX, Tomcat, Android APK, Vert.X"... In reality it's ".NET Core and .NET Framework". And while there have been some growing pains as the term .NET became overloaded, it's always been clear .NET Core is where they want people to be, .NET Framework exists because migration to a new platform wasn't going to happen overnight. Every year there's more and more .NET Core compatibility, they've done a good job with .NET Core so more people are willing to use it (and port packages to it) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/choosing-core-framework-server https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/choosing-co...
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Naturally I am comparing all levels of the stack, as I mention on my comment a language alone is useless. Yes, the future is .NET Core, however pretending that outside Windows it can match Java offerings just reveals a complete lack of knowledge of all kinds of platforms that have Java support available for them. Guys like PTC, Aicas, Gemalto, microEJ doing embedded real time Java, selling M2M devices, IBM and Unisys mainframes, 80% of the mobile world (even if it is an adulterated flavour of coffee), smartcards, blue ray players, healthcare and TV settop boxes, kiosks and plenty of other use cases. .NET is catching up with 25 years of Java doing cross platform development, while anything that came out of Redmond has been mostly Windows only for 20 years. .NET Core only supports the three major mainstream OSes, zero support for anything else, and has the growing pains of a platform where plenty of third parties are yet to release anything on Core. Sitecore just released their first version on .NET Core earlier this month, and I don't see anyone rushing to upgrade. Doing WPF, Forms? Good luck with many GUI component libraries. Apparently the designers are going to miss .NET 5 for full stability. The beautiful thing with being a polyglot consultant is that I don't have to convince myself that I am using the best stuff as "Developer X", I just use whatever stack the customer asks for and then move on.

Const-me 6y ago

> over trying to appease the kinds of customer needs that involve keeping 25 year old binary only jars running C# doesn’t break too many things while it evolves. Example: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.collections.arraylist?view=netcore-3.1 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.collectio... That class was introduced in .NET 1.1 way before generic, still present in the most recent .NET Core 3.1. They sometimes deprecate higher-level stuff, but very conservatively so. E.g. asp.net web forms (2002) is deprecated, while windows forms (also 2002) is still supported.

pjmlp 6y ago
Try to run random .NET Framework Assemblies on .NET Core or .NET Native, this is what Java philosophy tries to avoid. Forms designer is still broken on .NET 5, and it might not make it to the final release.
- fomine3 6y ago
  This is a single breaking jump after 20 years. This migration is really needed and well considered.