5 ms·

0ne of the pieces many articles discussing Singapore miss is actually the quality of the people in the Government officer corps. This i think makes a massive am

by sfifs 6y ago

0ne of the pieces many articles discussing Singapore miss is actually the quality of the people in the Government officer corps. This i think makes a massive amount of difference in that a lot of what's planned in infrastructure and processes is much better thought out and executed than in other countries. It's the equivalent of the 10X programmer philosophy. This is achieved largely by the government sponsoring the most promising/brilliant students to study in top Western universities and offering them quite competitive pay packages to join the government. The Indian government's elite corps (IAS) as a contrasting example are also composed of similarly brilliant people (including some of my own classmates), but this is restricted to only the people at the very top of the hierarchy and capability doesn't penetrate deep into bulk of the government, nor is compensation as competitive which promotes corruption.

rudiv 6y ago
> The Indian government's elite corps (IAS) as a contrasting example are also composed of similarly brilliant people, but only restricted to the people at the very top of the hierarchy and is not true for bulk of the government, nor is compensation as competitive which promotes corruption. It may be anecdotal, but in my experience the officers of the Union Public Services are in most cases not particularly brilliant, as you may expect from a examination and qualification system that prioritizes rote learning. (my anecdotal sample size being 3-4 IPS officers, 5-6 IAS officers and a couple of other officers of the lesser known services, i.e. IRS, IDAS, IFS, etc.)
- jagannathtech 6y ago
  I share the same view of yours. btw brilliant or not, it is like a switch flips in their brain once they become an IAS.... emperor of the universe/feudal lord firmware gets installed.
baybal2 6y ago
> This is achieved largely by the government sponsoring the most promising/brilliant students to study in top Western universities and offering them quite competitive pay packages to join the government. And so do countless of other countries, some successful, some not. Much of Africa for example sends its brightest to Oxfords, and Harwards for exorbitant amounts of money. And there are counterexamples, very big ones at that. Countries where civil service is poorly paid, and often not demanding even a college degree.
- hitekker 6y ago
  > And there are counterexamples, very big ones at that. Countries where civil service is poorly paid What are the successful countries where civil servants are not compensated fairly?
  - baybal2 6y ago
    USA, a big one. Much of Europe for the second place? As for Asia, Taiwanese are quite low despite high bar, South Korean, and Japanese were more or less equal to average white collar job. Malaysia can be though of as a mid income country, and their local government salaries lag behind white collar jobs. China... is a special case
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      I don't think anyone considers the American civil service to be much of a model for anything.
      - mattkrause 6y ago
        The current administration has certainly done some damage but: - the NIH is one of the biggest drivers of biomedical research in the world, both in terms of extramural funding and intramural research. The NSF, NASA, and the research arms of the DoD and DoE (etc) are also world-class. - Hurricane Dorian nonsense aside, the weather and ocean forecasts from NOAA/NWS are well-regarded. - the FAA and FDA have kept flying, food, and medicine quite safe. - The National Parks System is fantastic and the USGS maps are quite good; maybe only the UK’s OS maps are better regarded.
        mobilefriendly 6y ago
        The FDA blocked private testing at a critical point early in the coronavirus. The FDA keeps many lifesaving treatments out of the US, at a large and unseen cost. For example, the FDA blocked UVB sunscreens for a decade after they were permitted in Europe. Those extra US skin cancer deaths are "unseen" but are casualties of the FDA. In turn, the FAA allowed Boeing to "self-regulate" approvals of the MAX and after the first plane went down, still deemed it to be airworthy.
api 6y ago
Interesting... I immediately contrast this with the American drive to make government work undesirable. This has led to a mass exodus of competence from government all the way to the top. Even the office of President is now sought by a bunch of third rate candidates: bland old bureaucrats, delusional ideologues unfit for the real world, and con men and narcissists like the current occupant of the office. Have we intentionally created an incompetent government?
- eunos 6y ago
  Well "Starve the Beast" exists . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
  - bhupy 6y ago
    "Starve the Beast" is a bit of a boogeyman, because the actual size and spending of government hasn't changed, only the deficit has.
ValentineC 6y ago
> 0ne of the pieces many articles discussing Singapore miss is actually the quality of the people in the Government officer corps. This i think makes a massive amount of difference in that a lot of what's planned in infrastructure and processes is much better thought out and executed than in other countries. It's the equivalent of the 10X programmer philosophy. > This is achieved largely by the government sponsoring the most promising/brilliant students to study in top Western universities and offering them quite competitive pay packages to join the government. Some of the scholars, yes. I interacted with some scholars during my university time, and I thought that some of them were, in my opinion, not very smart outside of academics. There are many in the civil service that perform the bare minimum for their position — it's not easy to get fired from the civil service, and they're content with minimal career progression.

by sfifs 6y ago

rudiv 6y ago

> The Indian government's elite corps (IAS) as a contrasting example are also composed of similarly brilliant people, but only restricted to the people at the very top of the hierarchy and is not true for bulk of the government, nor is compensation as competitive which promotes corruption. It may be anecdotal, but in my experience the officers of the Union Public Services are in most cases not particularly brilliant, as you may expect from a examination and qualification system that prioritizes rote learning. (my anecdotal sample size being 3-4 IPS officers, 5-6 IAS officers and a couple of other officers of the lesser known services, i.e. IRS, IDAS, IFS, etc.)

jagannathtech 6y ago
I share the same view of yours. btw brilliant or not, it is like a switch flips in their brain once they become an IAS.... emperor of the universe/feudal lord firmware gets installed.

baybal2 6y ago

> This is achieved largely by the government sponsoring the most promising/brilliant students to study in top Western universities and offering them quite competitive pay packages to join the government. And so do countless of other countries, some successful, some not. Much of Africa for example sends its brightest to Oxfords, and Harwards for exorbitant amounts of money. And there are counterexamples, very big ones at that. Countries where civil service is poorly paid, and often not demanding even a college degree.

hitekker 6y ago
> And there are counterexamples, very big ones at that. Countries where civil service is poorly paid What are the successful countries where civil servants are not compensated fairly?
- baybal2 6y ago
  USA, a big one. Much of Europe for the second place? As for Asia, Taiwanese are quite low despite high bar, South Korean, and Japanese were more or less equal to average white collar job. Malaysia can be though of as a mid income country, and their local government salaries lag behind white collar jobs. China... is a special case
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    I don't think anyone considers the American civil service to be much of a model for anything.
    - mattkrause 6y ago
      The current administration has certainly done some damage but: - the NIH is one of the biggest drivers of biomedical research in the world, both in terms of extramural funding and intramural research. The NSF, NASA, and the research arms of the DoD and DoE (etc) are also world-class. - Hurricane Dorian nonsense aside, the weather and ocean forecasts from NOAA/NWS are well-regarded. - the FAA and FDA have kept flying, food, and medicine quite safe. - The National Parks System is fantastic and the USGS maps are quite good; maybe only the UK’s OS maps are better regarded.
      - mobilefriendly 6y ago
        The FDA blocked private testing at a critical point early in the coronavirus. The FDA keeps many lifesaving treatments out of the US, at a large and unseen cost. For example, the FDA blocked UVB sunscreens for a decade after they were permitted in Europe. Those extra US skin cancer deaths are "unseen" but are casualties of the FDA. In turn, the FAA allowed Boeing to "self-regulate" approvals of the MAX and after the first plane went down, still deemed it to be airworthy.

api 6y ago

Interesting... I immediately contrast this with the American drive to make government work undesirable. This has led to a mass exodus of competence from government all the way to the top. Even the office of President is now sought by a bunch of third rate candidates: bland old bureaucrats, delusional ideologues unfit for the real world, and con men and narcissists like the current occupant of the office. Have we intentionally created an incompetent government?

eunos 6y ago
Well "Starve the Beast" exists . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
- bhupy 6y ago
  "Starve the Beast" is a bit of a boogeyman, because the actual size and spending of government hasn't changed, only the deficit has.

ValentineC 6y ago

> 0ne of the pieces many articles discussing Singapore miss is actually the quality of the people in the Government officer corps. This i think makes a massive amount of difference in that a lot of what's planned in infrastructure and processes is much better thought out and executed than in other countries. It's the equivalent of the 10X programmer philosophy. > This is achieved largely by the government sponsoring the most promising/brilliant students to study in top Western universities and offering them quite competitive pay packages to join the government. Some of the scholars, yes. I interacted with some scholars during my university time, and I thought that some of them were, in my opinion, not very smart outside of academics. There are many in the civil service that perform the bare minimum for their position — it's not easy to get fired from the civil service, and they're content with minimal career progression.