6 ms·

The Humble Frozenbyte Bundle

189 points by jeff18 15y ago

tkahn6 15y ago
The last bundle posed an interesting moral quandary for me. I didn't want to spend much money, but I also didn't want to pay below what I thought it was worth. So I ended up not buying it at all.
- andylei 15y ago
  their marginal cost is basically zero, so both you and they would have been better off if you had paid below what you thought it was worth.
  - albemuth 15y ago
    so as long as your contribution covers the bandwidth cost you should be good.
- lambda 15y ago
  Dude, don't worry about it. Just pay what you feel like paying. Think of it as a donation, not as a payment. In fact, part of it is (the donations to Child's Play and EFF, as well as the tip for the guys running the Humble Bundle). Think of the rest of it the same way as well; you're donating what you can afford to some people who are creating cool games that you get to play.
ultrasaurus 15y ago
I think I'm going to have to break my no-game-buying pledge for this bundle, another comment [1] pointed out Trine is local co-operative and I want to show my support for that type of gameplay. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438072 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438072 (in a dead thread)
- avolcano 15y ago
  More and more people are using their PCs with big TVs, so hopefully it'll make a comeback. Valve announced Steam will have a big screen/TV mode soon, and it'll be interesting to see if Portal 2 supports split screen natively (L4D 1+2 did, but required some hacking around in the console).
JonnieCache 15y ago
I find it interesting that the linux crew are paying over twice as much as windows/mac users on average. Higher average age and therefore disposable income do you suppose?
- Wilduck 15y ago
  Or a signal that Linux users are willing to pay for quality software?
  - heyitsnick 15y ago
    I don't think that really plays much in to it. I don't think many people are sizing up the quality of the software then making a value judgement - as everyone will conclude that even $10 or $20 is very cheap for the value you receive. I think it's more the points child comment makes above, along with: a- Linux users want to support the philosophy behind these humble sales (pay-what-you-want, independent studio, DRM-free). b- Total supposition: Many linux users come across this from sources like HN or their friends as "check out the way these are being sold", whereas many windows users it's more "check out how cheap these games are".
  - b0rsuk 15y ago
    I loathe to admit it, especially because I'm an amateur game programmer/designer. But Open Source games today are seriously lacking in creativity and originality. Vast majority of them are clones of equivalent proprietary projects. Let's examine a couple a couple of succesful Open Source games: - Freeciv: duh - The Dark Mod: Thief clone - Hedgewars: Worms clone - Violetland: Crimsonland clone - OpenArena, Alien Arena, Nexuiz, Warsow (Quake1/3 clones) - Wesnoth: Final Fantasy Tactics ? Console TBS ? Simple to the point where armor is represented via more hitpoints and tin can knights need more healing. - billion of DooM source ports - Cube, Sauerbraten FPS games have intriguing engines utilizing octrees, which enables to display huge number of geometry. These engines are used almost exclusively to creat dumb Quake clones. Sadly, many good or promising Open Source games started as commercial ones. The code was released later, often because the game was a commercial failure (i.e. Fish Fillets, 0. A.D. ). More generally, open source is often where software goes to "die". About the only games I can name as exceptions are roguelikes, particularly Nethack and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. These are open-source games with no equivalent in proprietary/commercial world. -------- I'm convinced this is not a problem with lack of money, time, or motivation. Even the greediest of the bunch, 2D and 3D artists, end up contributing to mature projects. OpenOffice, Mozilla, GIMP. Hell, Linux ! I think it's a problem with leadership. This article, incidentally - linked from Hacker News - was an eye opener for me: http://blog.asmartbear.com/ignoring-the-wisdom-of-crowds.html http://blog.asmartbear.com/ignoring-the-wisdom-of-crowds.htm... ("Design is not a democratic process", "Eventually you realize there’s only way to please everyone: Cook something bland, mild, and safe, like chicken and rice. But does chicken and rice actually please anyone? Not really, it was just what everyone hated the least.", "Votes become vetoes") It also talks about stuff like the jellybeans experiment. What wisdom of crowds is good or bad for. Usually, innovative, potentially bad ideas are shot down. You're left with chicken and rice - things that people hated the least. That's why clones are so popular - you know in advance it is a solid game idea. It's much easier to get contributors. But good luck getting motivated contributors for a unique game ! More generally, I think open-source games often end up going one of 2 paths: - bland clone, huge project inertia - Frankenstein feature creep, in my opinion Nethack belongs here I think open source is bad at going where no one has gone before, and this is important for games. It won't stop me from trying, though. I think Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is one notable exception - it mostly manages to keep leadership focus. You could say they don't exclusively use greedy algorithms for design.
giberson 15y ago
I'm curious, what is the licensing on the included Jack Claw source code? Could I mod it and release it? (Commercially?) What about the included media? PS. Attempted to get answers from fronzebyte via the in page "chat with frozenbyte" widget. Not much help from them at all. Kind of discouraging. Heya, curious about the included Jack Claw source--whats the licensing on it? →Would some one be able to mod and release the source? With existing media assets? How about commercially? →(Not that I want to buy the source, compile it and sell it) But was curious about utilizing the engine and assets to create a different game and how release options would be liited (or not) →limited* Joonas/FrozenByte: I suggest you to go to the frozenbyte jack claw forums and ask about the stuff there. →Where would that be? (no answer)
- chc 15y ago
  From a quick glance at Frozenbyte's website, it would appear the forum in question is http://frozenbyte.com/board/viewforum.php?f=19 http://frozenbyte.com/board/viewforum.php?f=19 . A bit barren, but hopefully they check it.
- gnufs 15y ago
  Here's the license text from the README of the source code: JACK CLAW SOURCE CODE LICENSE THE COMPUTER CODE ("SOURCE CODE") CONTAINED HEREIN IS THE SOLE PROPERTY OF FROZENBYTE LTD. ("FROZENBYTE"). FROZENBYTE GRANTS TO END-USERS A ROYALTY-FREE, PERPETUAL LICENSE TO USE, DISPLAY, MODIFY, DISTRIBUTE AND CREATE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF THE SOURCE CODE, SO LONG AS SUCH ACTION IS FOR NON-COMMERCIAL, ROYALTY-FREE AND REVENUE-FREE PURPOSES. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE END-USER TAKE ANY ACTION WHEREBY THE SOURCE CODE CONTAINED HEREIN WOULD BE USED FOR REVENUE-BEARING PURPOSES. THE END-USER UNDERSTANDS AND AGREES TO THE TERMS HEREIN AND ACCEPTS THE SAME BY USING THE SOURCE CODE IN ANY WAY. THE SOURCE CODE IS PROVIDED AS-IS AND FROZENBYTE MAKES NO WARRANTY AS TO THE USABILITY OR CORRECTNESS OF THE SOURCE CODE. ANY USE IS AT YOUR OWN RISK. FROZENBYTE RETAINS THE RIGHT TO ALTER THESE LICENSE TERMS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON. SOURCE CODE README AND FURTHER LICENSE NOTES -------------------------------------------- Last update to this file: 12th of April 2011 Jack Claw was a project in development at Frozenbyte during the years 2006-2008. It was a big-budget multiplatform game for next-gen consoles and PC. The project was canned in 2008 and the team set to work on Trine ( http://www.trine-thegame.com ) instead. More history on the project can be found at Frozenbyte's website or on the Jack Claw website, and more info on the transition from Jack Claw to Trine can be found in the Gamasutra postmortem: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/5826/postmortem_frozenbytes_trine.php This source code package allows you to compile the game and develop it further if you wish (for non-commercial purposes). All other Jack Claw files, including the art assets and the level editor, remain the sole property and copyright of Frozenbyte. You may not distribute any of the files not included in the source code package. Should the source code include any 3rd party files or software, the copyright remains with the original owner and you are not allowed to distribute or modify such files or software. It is also forbidden to distribute Jack Claw or any direct derivative, in any way (e.g. not even for free), in any "app stores" such as the Mac App Store or similar, or in any distribution channel that has authorization control by a third party. If you have a question about the license or a specific file, please don't hesitate to contact us. We're mostly just covering our legal base with this stuff. Please note that we cannot provide any official support for this source code release, although we will try to help where we can. If you are interested in developing Jack Claw, please get in touch with us or join the community - we are not actively developing the game on our own anymore but we are generally open to ideas, and our main interest is to just get the game out there and see what happens, and support the community with their ideas.
joshuaeckroth 15y ago
The last bundle was fantastic. My wife & I are still playing World of Goo, Osmos, and Braid. We're both busy people so these are exactly (and only) the kinds of games we enjoy.
- heyitsnick 15y ago
  Good for you - sadly I don't have that kind of self-control. I played through Braid in one sitting - be it 10pm through to about 7am in the morning. Once I started I couldn't put it down; it was probably the best gaming experience I've ever had. Similar result the next weekend with Goo.
reedlaw 15y ago
Is there anything as good as Braid in this bundle? I bought the last Humble Indie Bundle and nothing really struck my fancy as much as Braid. The game play is truly innovative and the difficulty on par with Apple II and Amiga games of my youth.
- Splines 15y ago
  I've only played Trine of the games in this bundle, and it's a decently well-polished game. It's basically a puzzle-platformer. I've only spent about an hour on it, so I can't really comment on the difficulty. I doubt it's as intellectually hard as some of the later Braid levels. Solving those were so satisfying.
  - heyitsnick 15y ago
    I'm looking forward to the time when I forget the solutions so i can replay it all again. I tried a couple of months ago but sadly all the answers came flooding back. I'll give it another 2-3 years before trying again.
jdboyd 15y ago
I bought the previous bundle, but now I'm torn. On the one hand, I want to show support for them and for linux gaming. OTOH, the hardware requirements are rather steep for me. The games I've gotten around to playing from the last bundle all run well on Intel graphics.
- Splines 15y ago
  I just tried Shadowgrounds on a laptop with an Intel 4500MHD (and a 1.4GHz Core 2 Solo) and it works and looks surprisingly well (I set the graphics to "low" and res was ~1280x720). Shadowgrouns: Survivor hard locked my laptop (running Win7), I'm guessing it's some sort of driver issue :(. Trine runs well at 1024x768, but bogs down at my native resolution (1366x768). For reference, I can play CS:S, HL2 & Torchlight on this laptop just fine, but that's probably about it (TF2 is iffy). SC2 & Minecraft are pretty much unplayable. Modern shooters like L4D1/2 are completely out. Hope that helps.
- roryokane 15y ago
  You could pay just 1 cent in order to download the games, and then increase your contribution later after you've ascertained that the games work for you.
xsmasher 15y ago
Did anyone download the source code that came from the last bundle? I'm always on the lookout for good game code to examine.
- uxp 15y ago
  None of the Humble Bundles actually include the source code with the purchase. Sometimes the publisher has released the code of the games included in the bundle on their own outside of the actions of the Humble Bundle. The reason that Jack Claw in this bundle was open sourced is because it is a prototype. You can find sourcecode for games included in other versions linked from Wolfire's blog: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Aquaria-goes-open-source http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Aquaria-goes-open-source http://crypticsea.blogspot.com/2010/05/gish-open-source.html http://crypticsea.blogspot.com/2010/05/gish-open-source.html http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Lugaru-goes-open-source http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Lugaru-goes-open-source http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/05/penumbra-overture-goes-open-source.html http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/05/penumbra-overtur... As far as I know, the second Humble Bundle did not include any games of which was later open sourced.
  - alfet 15y ago
    "Puppygames is working on releasing the Revenge of the Titans source code! ETA: 2 weeks." @humble 7th of April, I got it on the last bundle but haven't played it yet, does anyone know if it's good?
    - Groxx 15y ago
      It's an interesting free-form (ie, no true paths) tower-defense game. Pretty large tech tree, pretty long game, pretty hard, and it under-went a major gameplay-overhaul not too long ago. I'm not convinced it's better, but it did noticeably simplify a few things which were over-complicated. And large changes / updates are generally indicative of developers who listen. As is the overall level of polish, which I'd call abnormally high. Definitely worth a try, unless you dislike tower defense games.
    - 15y ago

189 points by jeff18 15y ago

The last bundle posed an interesting moral quandary for me. I didn't want to spend much money, but I also didn't want to pay below what I thought it was worth. So I ended up not buying it at all.

andylei 15y ago
their marginal cost is basically zero, so both you and they would have been better off if you had paid below what you thought it was worth.
- albemuth 15y ago
  so as long as your contribution covers the bandwidth cost you should be good.
lambda 15y ago
Dude, don't worry about it. Just pay what you feel like paying. Think of it as a donation, not as a payment. In fact, part of it is (the donations to Child's Play and EFF, as well as the tip for the guys running the Humble Bundle). Think of the rest of it the same way as well; you're donating what you can afford to some people who are creating cool games that you get to play.

ultrasaurus 15y ago

I think I'm going to have to break my no-game-buying pledge for this bundle, another comment [1] pointed out Trine is local co-operative and I want to show my support for that type of gameplay. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438072 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2438072 (in a dead thread)

avolcano 15y ago
More and more people are using their PCs with big TVs, so hopefully it'll make a comeback. Valve announced Steam will have a big screen/TV mode soon, and it'll be interesting to see if Portal 2 supports split screen natively (L4D 1+2 did, but required some hacking around in the console).

JonnieCache 15y ago

I find it interesting that the linux crew are paying over twice as much as windows/mac users on average. Higher average age and therefore disposable income do you suppose?

Wilduck 15y ago
Or a signal that Linux users are willing to pay for quality software?
- heyitsnick 15y ago
  I don't think that really plays much in to it. I don't think many people are sizing up the quality of the software then making a value judgement - as everyone will conclude that even $10 or $20 is very cheap for the value you receive. I think it's more the points child comment makes above, along with: a- Linux users want to support the philosophy behind these humble sales (pay-what-you-want, independent studio, DRM-free). b- Total supposition: Many linux users come across this from sources like HN or their friends as "check out the way these are being sold", whereas many windows users it's more "check out how cheap these games are".
- b0rsuk 15y ago
  I loathe to admit it, especially because I'm an amateur game programmer/designer. But Open Source games today are seriously lacking in creativity and originality. Vast majority of them are clones of equivalent proprietary projects. Let's examine a couple a couple of succesful Open Source games: - Freeciv: duh - The Dark Mod: Thief clone - Hedgewars: Worms clone - Violetland: Crimsonland clone - OpenArena, Alien Arena, Nexuiz, Warsow (Quake1/3 clones) - Wesnoth: Final Fantasy Tactics ? Console TBS ? Simple to the point where armor is represented via more hitpoints and tin can knights need more healing. - billion of DooM source ports - Cube, Sauerbraten FPS games have intriguing engines utilizing octrees, which enables to display huge number of geometry. These engines are used almost exclusively to creat dumb Quake clones. Sadly, many good or promising Open Source games started as commercial ones. The code was released later, often because the game was a commercial failure (i.e. Fish Fillets, 0. A.D. ). More generally, open source is often where software goes to "die". About the only games I can name as exceptions are roguelikes, particularly Nethack and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. These are open-source games with no equivalent in proprietary/commercial world. -------- I'm convinced this is not a problem with lack of money, time, or motivation. Even the greediest of the bunch, 2D and 3D artists, end up contributing to mature projects. OpenOffice, Mozilla, GIMP. Hell, Linux ! I think it's a problem with leadership. This article, incidentally - linked from Hacker News - was an eye opener for me: http://blog.asmartbear.com/ignoring-the-wisdom-of-crowds.html http://blog.asmartbear.com/ignoring-the-wisdom-of-crowds.htm... ("Design is not a democratic process", "Eventually you realize there’s only way to please everyone: Cook something bland, mild, and safe, like chicken and rice. But does chicken and rice actually please anyone? Not really, it was just what everyone hated the least.", "Votes become vetoes") It also talks about stuff like the jellybeans experiment. What wisdom of crowds is good or bad for. Usually, innovative, potentially bad ideas are shot down. You're left with chicken and rice - things that people hated the least. That's why clones are so popular - you know in advance it is a solid game idea. It's much easier to get contributors. But good luck getting motivated contributors for a unique game ! More generally, I think open-source games often end up going one of 2 paths: - bland clone, huge project inertia - Frankenstein feature creep, in my opinion Nethack belongs here I think open source is bad at going where no one has gone before, and this is important for games. It won't stop me from trying, though. I think Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is one notable exception - it mostly manages to keep leadership focus. You could say they don't exclusively use greedy algorithms for design.

giberson 15y ago

I'm curious, what is the licensing on the included Jack Claw source code? Could I mod it and release it? (Commercially?) What about the included media? PS. Attempted to get answers from fronzebyte via the in page "chat with frozenbyte" widget. Not much help from them at all. Kind of discouraging. Heya, curious about the included Jack Claw source--whats the licensing on it? →Would some one be able to mod and release the source? With existing media assets? How about commercially? →(Not that I want to buy the source, compile it and sell it) But was curious about utilizing the engine and assets to create a different game and how release options would be liited (or not) →limited* Joonas/FrozenByte: I suggest you to go to the frozenbyte jack claw forums and ask about the stuff there. →Where would that be? (no answer)

chc 15y ago
From a quick glance at Frozenbyte's website, it would appear the forum in question is http://frozenbyte.com/board/viewforum.php?f=19 http://frozenbyte.com/board/viewforum.php?f=19 . A bit barren, but hopefully they check it.
gnufs 15y ago
Here's the license text from the README of the source code: JACK CLAW SOURCE CODE LICENSE THE COMPUTER CODE ("SOURCE CODE") CONTAINED HEREIN IS THE SOLE PROPERTY OF FROZENBYTE LTD. ("FROZENBYTE"). FROZENBYTE GRANTS TO END-USERS A ROYALTY-FREE, PERPETUAL LICENSE TO USE, DISPLAY, MODIFY, DISTRIBUTE AND CREATE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF THE SOURCE CODE, SO LONG AS SUCH ACTION IS FOR NON-COMMERCIAL, ROYALTY-FREE AND REVENUE-FREE PURPOSES. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE END-USER TAKE ANY ACTION WHEREBY THE SOURCE CODE CONTAINED HEREIN WOULD BE USED FOR REVENUE-BEARING PURPOSES. THE END-USER UNDERSTANDS AND AGREES TO THE TERMS HEREIN AND ACCEPTS THE SAME BY USING THE SOURCE CODE IN ANY WAY. THE SOURCE CODE IS PROVIDED AS-IS AND FROZENBYTE MAKES NO WARRANTY AS TO THE USABILITY OR CORRECTNESS OF THE SOURCE CODE. ANY USE IS AT YOUR OWN RISK. FROZENBYTE RETAINS THE RIGHT TO ALTER THESE LICENSE TERMS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON. SOURCE CODE README AND FURTHER LICENSE NOTES -------------------------------------------- Last update to this file: 12th of April 2011 Jack Claw was a project in development at Frozenbyte during the years 2006-2008. It was a big-budget multiplatform game for next-gen consoles and PC. The project was canned in 2008 and the team set to work on Trine ( http://www.trine-thegame.com ) instead. More history on the project can be found at Frozenbyte's website or on the Jack Claw website, and more info on the transition from Jack Claw to Trine can be found in the Gamasutra postmortem: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/5826/postmortem_frozenbytes_trine.php This source code package allows you to compile the game and develop it further if you wish (for non-commercial purposes). All other Jack Claw files, including the art assets and the level editor, remain the sole property and copyright of Frozenbyte. You may not distribute any of the files not included in the source code package. Should the source code include any 3rd party files or software, the copyright remains with the original owner and you are not allowed to distribute or modify such files or software. It is also forbidden to distribute Jack Claw or any direct derivative, in any way (e.g. not even for free), in any "app stores" such as the Mac App Store or similar, or in any distribution channel that has authorization control by a third party. If you have a question about the license or a specific file, please don't hesitate to contact us. We're mostly just covering our legal base with this stuff. Please note that we cannot provide any official support for this source code release, although we will try to help where we can. If you are interested in developing Jack Claw, please get in touch with us or join the community - we are not actively developing the game on our own anymore but we are generally open to ideas, and our main interest is to just get the game out there and see what happens, and support the community with their ideas.

joshuaeckroth 15y ago

The last bundle was fantastic. My wife & I are still playing World of Goo, Osmos, and Braid. We're both busy people so these are exactly (and only) the kinds of games we enjoy.

heyitsnick 15y ago
Good for you - sadly I don't have that kind of self-control. I played through Braid in one sitting - be it 10pm through to about 7am in the morning. Once I started I couldn't put it down; it was probably the best gaming experience I've ever had. Similar result the next weekend with Goo.

reedlaw 15y ago

Is there anything as good as Braid in this bundle? I bought the last Humble Indie Bundle and nothing really struck my fancy as much as Braid. The game play is truly innovative and the difficulty on par with Apple II and Amiga games of my youth.

Splines 15y ago
I've only played Trine of the games in this bundle, and it's a decently well-polished game. It's basically a puzzle-platformer. I've only spent about an hour on it, so I can't really comment on the difficulty. I doubt it's as intellectually hard as some of the later Braid levels. Solving those were so satisfying.
- heyitsnick 15y ago
  I'm looking forward to the time when I forget the solutions so i can replay it all again. I tried a couple of months ago but sadly all the answers came flooding back. I'll give it another 2-3 years before trying again.

jdboyd 15y ago

I bought the previous bundle, but now I'm torn. On the one hand, I want to show support for them and for linux gaming. OTOH, the hardware requirements are rather steep for me. The games I've gotten around to playing from the last bundle all run well on Intel graphics.

Splines 15y ago
I just tried Shadowgrounds on a laptop with an Intel 4500MHD (and a 1.4GHz Core 2 Solo) and it works and looks surprisingly well (I set the graphics to "low" and res was ~1280x720). Shadowgrouns: Survivor hard locked my laptop (running Win7), I'm guessing it's some sort of driver issue :(. Trine runs well at 1024x768, but bogs down at my native resolution (1366x768). For reference, I can play CS:S, HL2 & Torchlight on this laptop just fine, but that's probably about it (TF2 is iffy). SC2 & Minecraft are pretty much unplayable. Modern shooters like L4D1/2 are completely out. Hope that helps.
roryokane 15y ago
You could pay just 1 cent in order to download the games, and then increase your contribution later after you've ascertained that the games work for you.

xsmasher 15y ago

Did anyone download the source code that came from the last bundle? I'm always on the lookout for good game code to examine.

uxp 15y ago
None of the Humble Bundles actually include the source code with the purchase. Sometimes the publisher has released the code of the games included in the bundle on their own outside of the actions of the Humble Bundle. The reason that Jack Claw in this bundle was open sourced is because it is a prototype. You can find sourcecode for games included in other versions linked from Wolfire's blog: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Aquaria-goes-open-source http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Aquaria-goes-open-source http://crypticsea.blogspot.com/2010/05/gish-open-source.html http://crypticsea.blogspot.com/2010/05/gish-open-source.html http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Lugaru-goes-open-source http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Lugaru-goes-open-source http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/05/penumbra-overture-goes-open-source.html http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/05/penumbra-overtur... As far as I know, the second Humble Bundle did not include any games of which was later open sourced.
- alfet 15y ago
  "Puppygames is working on releasing the Revenge of the Titans source code! ETA: 2 weeks." @humble 7th of April, I got it on the last bundle but haven't played it yet, does anyone know if it's good?
  - Groxx 15y ago
    It's an interesting free-form (ie, no true paths) tower-defense game. Pretty large tech tree, pretty long game, pretty hard, and it under-went a major gameplay-overhaul not too long ago. I'm not convinced it's better, but it did noticeably simplify a few things which were over-complicated. And large changes / updates are generally indicative of developers who listen. As is the overall level of polish, which I'd call abnormally high. Definitely worth a try, unless you dislike tower defense games.
  - 15y ago