4 ms·

Pretty sure the user is wrong about what caused this dialog. It was the recent Firefox update. Firefox 80 added being a PDF reader as a Windows-selectable pref

Pretty sure the user is wrong about what caused this dialog. It was the recent Firefox update. Firefox 80 added being a PDF reader as a Windows-selectable preference, as seen in this dialog. Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use. While Edge getting a special category at the top is annoying, this showcases the uphill battle Microsoft faces, where they get blamed for the actions of other software and user stupidity on a regular basis, because people don't understand how Windows works, in general.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Indeed, Windows may not be perfect but most of issues reported by users seem to be caused by lack of knowledge or experience or some misbehaving third party app. Every job I had where we used Windows 10 we had no issues and when there were issues, it was always caused by faulty hardware, crappy corporate bloatware or some misbehaving or poorly configured third party app. I know it's fashionable on HN to hate microsoft and windows because of the "muh embrace, extend, extinguish and candy crush" meme, but objectively they make a solid OS for consumers (optimus graphics switching works flawlessly on our laptops) and developers (WSL) considering the vast hardware combinations it has to run on.
andreareina 6y ago
I'm sure a lot of it is also Microsoft doing things like not giving its users a choice in whether or not they upgrade, or reboot.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Sure but then users would postpone updates forever then blame microsoft when they get pwned by some vunerability that has already been fixed for three months. Seems like either way, microsoft just can't catch a break.
  - dividedbyzero 6y ago
    Seems to work well enough on macOS though (where you could do exactly that)
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      MacOS ist not a big enough target thought due to its small market share so the risk of not updating is small. Apples to oranges.
tremon 6y ago
because people don't understand how Windows works, in general. I'm not ready to absolve Microsoft of this blame, though. Yes, every operating system is a complex beast, and no single person comprehends it all. But Microsoft seems to have a particular fondness for non-transparency in all its machinations, whether it's pricing, licensing, telemetry, file formats, product usage documentation or even its APIs. Not to mention that Microsoft is a repeat offender in this particular space, so I would probably have jumped to the same conclusion.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  > ...non-transparency in... pricing, licensing, telemetry, file formats, product usage documentation or even its APIs... Despite that, Windows is easily one of the least annoying OSes that I have to deal with. I wish I could run it on my phone. Instead I either have to accept the walled gardens where there is zero transparency or spend all my time hacking my phone to give me the same kinds of freedoms that I enjoy on Windows.
  - yearoflinux 6y ago
    I don't disagree with you on Anny point but you cheat when you say you want to run it on phone. Windows Phone was a miles ahead of droid and iOS and lost only due to the anti-microsoft culture of silicon valley. (Unless you want torun windows desktop on phone in which case just buy a netbook)
    - quadrifoliate 6y ago
      > Windows Phone was a miles ahead of droid and iOS and lost only due to the anti-microsoft culture of silicon valley. It was painful as hell to develop for Windows Phone. You had to use Windows on the laptop you were developing on, and go through licensing crap for that. Then you had to install Visual Studio, and then some weird addon to that. They were losing developers at every stage of this process, and would never admit that the process was a pain or try to simplify it. (My guess is that all three of these were handled by different departments at Microsoft who were forced to integrate with each other's products). So in my opinion, it has nothing to do with anti-Microsoft culture, but more to do with the fact that Microsoft was too arrogant to realize that they were the underdog in this race by a significant margin.
kijin 6y ago
> Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use. I prefer the old system where individual apps begged users to use it as the default app for this or that filetype, and shut up if the user said no. If an app kept bothering the user to change (hello, every browser ever), that was the app's fault, not the platform's. Meanwhile, Windows dutifully kept sending the user to the default app. Now that Windows has taken up the task of bothering the user, the responsibility for this annoying behavior is on Microsoft. They can and should be blamed for it.
- folbec 6y ago
  Except there was no shortage of apps that made the change silently, without asking (or asking for one, and changing many), hijacking defaults. I too find the new system annoying, but its better than go hunting thru file formats looking for what had been changed silently.
  - kijin 6y ago
    Windows 10 actually fixed that problem. For the most part, apps can't change defaults silently anymore. The settings page for changing default apps has also been revamped, so it's a lot easier to use than in previous versions. It would have been marvelous if Microsoft stopped right there. Instead, they chose to annoy users with an unskippable dialog box whenever a new app is installed that claims to know how to handle a PDF, JPG, or whatever. Fuck it, every app and their dog knows how to handle PDFs these days. I'm just waiting for the day when Windows suggests Slack as the default music player.
    - withinboredom 6y ago
      Slightly off-topic, but it would be an epic april fools joke if Slack actually implemented that just to troll Windows users.
vips7L 6y ago
I actually had to use Edge the other day because Firefox couldn't fill out the form on the pdf I had.
AMD_DRIVERS 6y ago
As much as this is also annoying (and Microsoft trying to goad the user into setting Edge as the default), I would much rather this than programs being able to silently set defaults.
quadrifoliate 6y ago
> Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use....While Edge getting a special category at the top is annoying, this showcases the uphill battle Microsoft faces, where they get blamed for the actions of other software and user stupidity on a regular basis, because people don't understand how Windows works, in general. Edge getting a special category at the top is central to the problem. If Firefox 80 added a PDF reader and Windows is being so nice as to let you choose whether you want to use it instead of whatever you currently use, then in the list of PDF reader applications, a user should see it at the top (which will invite them to think "Hey cool, Firefox can now be used for PDFs!") so they are given a choice of sticking with their current thing, or choosing the shiny new capability that was just added. If you force Edge to the top of your app preference screens, users are obviously going to see the update and go "Yep, that's Microsoft trying to force their crap on me again". Microsoft's well known behavior of forcing updates on the user has already given it a bad reputation in this regard, and has resulted in court cases in the past. So yeah, it's not "user stupidity", it's the stupidity of whoever made the decision to promote Edge by shoving it in users' faces all the time including filetype handler updates.
blackearl 6y ago
>because people don't understand how Windows works, in general. But also because Microsoft aggressively pushed their browser for years. Even with their pitiable language "are you sure you don't want to try our new browser?". It's not just people misunderstanding, Microsoft actively did this throughout W10's lifetime
Stierlitz 6y ago
@ocdtrekkie: “Pretty sure the user is wrong about what caused this dialog. It was the recent Firefox update.” Explain like I'm five how a firefox update would set the default browser to EDGE ;]
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  > Explain like I'm five how a firefox update would set the default browser to EDGE ;] It didn't. The person who posted this didn't read the screen, and fundamentally misunderstood it. The title of the post is wrong. You'll notice that the dialog is asking "How do you want to open .pdf files from now on?" Because Firefox can now be set as a default PDF reader, Windows has a new PDF reader option, so it asks the next time the user tries to open a PDF. (And this has nothing to do with being the default web browser or not.) Next, the user also incorrectly assumed this had set the default to Edge. This is again, because they didn't read. Microsoft has broken out the "Featured in Windows 10" option from the "Other options". But it's asking, it hasn't made a change yet.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    As mentioned in my previous comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24374147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24374147), I was also affected by this. Saw the popup first when I clicked on a link in Discord, and Firefox was not updated (I'm doing those updates manually), only new thing from the Windows Update was that now Edge was added to my system + it was added to the bottom bar next to the start button. This is how the dialog looked for me: https://imgur.com/a/cTBcCBC https://imgur.com/a/cTBcCBC
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      That is indeed a default browser dialog (unlike the one from the Reddit post). And yes, it's because the new Edge got installed. Helpfully though, it does show your current default on top. Note that if you install any web browser, Windows will do this.
      - 6y ago
arprocter 6y ago
I saw the same as the reddit OP on my test machine (v2004 Home) A shortcut to Edge also magically appeared on the desktop

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

Indeed, Windows may not be perfect but most of issues reported by users seem to be caused by lack of knowledge or experience or some misbehaving third party app. Every job I had where we used Windows 10 we had no issues and when there were issues, it was always caused by faulty hardware, crappy corporate bloatware or some misbehaving or poorly configured third party app. I know it's fashionable on HN to hate microsoft and windows because of the "muh embrace, extend, extinguish and candy crush" meme, but objectively they make a solid OS for consumers (optimus graphics switching works flawlessly on our laptops) and developers (WSL) considering the vast hardware combinations it has to run on.

andreareina 6y ago

I'm sure a lot of it is also Microsoft doing things like not giving its users a choice in whether or not they upgrade, or reboot.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Sure but then users would postpone updates forever then blame microsoft when they get pwned by some vunerability that has already been fixed for three months. Seems like either way, microsoft just can't catch a break.
- dividedbyzero 6y ago
  Seems to work well enough on macOS though (where you could do exactly that)
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    MacOS ist not a big enough target thought due to its small market share so the risk of not updating is small. Apples to oranges.

tremon 6y ago

because people don't understand how Windows works, in general. I'm not ready to absolve Microsoft of this blame, though. Yes, every operating system is a complex beast, and no single person comprehends it all. But Microsoft seems to have a particular fondness for non-transparency in all its machinations, whether it's pricing, licensing, telemetry, file formats, product usage documentation or even its APIs. Not to mention that Microsoft is a repeat offender in this particular space, so I would probably have jumped to the same conclusion.

wayneftw 6y ago
> ...non-transparency in... pricing, licensing, telemetry, file formats, product usage documentation or even its APIs... Despite that, Windows is easily one of the least annoying OSes that I have to deal with. I wish I could run it on my phone. Instead I either have to accept the walled gardens where there is zero transparency or spend all my time hacking my phone to give me the same kinds of freedoms that I enjoy on Windows.
- yearoflinux 6y ago
  I don't disagree with you on Anny point but you cheat when you say you want to run it on phone. Windows Phone was a miles ahead of droid and iOS and lost only due to the anti-microsoft culture of silicon valley. (Unless you want torun windows desktop on phone in which case just buy a netbook)
  - quadrifoliate 6y ago
    > Windows Phone was a miles ahead of droid and iOS and lost only due to the anti-microsoft culture of silicon valley. It was painful as hell to develop for Windows Phone. You had to use Windows on the laptop you were developing on, and go through licensing crap for that. Then you had to install Visual Studio, and then some weird addon to that. They were losing developers at every stage of this process, and would never admit that the process was a pain or try to simplify it. (My guess is that all three of these were handled by different departments at Microsoft who were forced to integrate with each other's products). So in my opinion, it has nothing to do with anti-Microsoft culture, but more to do with the fact that Microsoft was too arrogant to realize that they were the underdog in this race by a significant margin.

kijin 6y ago

> Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use. I prefer the old system where individual apps begged users to use it as the default app for this or that filetype, and shut up if the user said no. If an app kept bothering the user to change (hello, every browser ever), that was the app's fault, not the platform's. Meanwhile, Windows dutifully kept sending the user to the default app. Now that Windows has taken up the task of bothering the user, the responsibility for this annoying behavior is on Microsoft. They can and should be blamed for it.

folbec 6y ago
Except there was no shortage of apps that made the change silently, without asking (or asking for one, and changing many), hijacking defaults. I too find the new system annoying, but its better than go hunting thru file formats looking for what had been changed silently.
- kijin 6y ago
  Windows 10 actually fixed that problem. For the most part, apps can't change defaults silently anymore. The settings page for changing default apps has also been revamped, so it's a lot easier to use than in previous versions. It would have been marvelous if Microsoft stopped right there. Instead, they chose to annoy users with an unskippable dialog box whenever a new app is installed that claims to know how to handle a PDF, JPG, or whatever. Fuck it, every app and their dog knows how to handle PDFs these days. I'm just waiting for the day when Windows suggests Slack as the default music player.
  - withinboredom 6y ago
    Slightly off-topic, but it would be an epic april fools joke if Slack actually implemented that just to troll Windows users.

vips7L 6y ago

I actually had to use Edge the other day because Firefox couldn't fill out the form on the pdf I had.

AMD_DRIVERS 6y ago

As much as this is also annoying (and Microsoft trying to goad the user into setting Edge as the default), I would much rather this than programs being able to silently set defaults.

quadrifoliate 6y ago

> Whenever a new app for a given filetype is added, Windows asks you which one you want to use....While Edge getting a special category at the top is annoying, this showcases the uphill battle Microsoft faces, where they get blamed for the actions of other software and user stupidity on a regular basis, because people don't understand how Windows works, in general. Edge getting a special category at the top is central to the problem. If Firefox 80 added a PDF reader and Windows is being so nice as to let you choose whether you want to use it instead of whatever you currently use, then in the list of PDF reader applications, a user should see it at the top (which will invite them to think "Hey cool, Firefox can now be used for PDFs!") so they are given a choice of sticking with their current thing, or choosing the shiny new capability that was just added. If you force Edge to the top of your app preference screens, users are obviously going to see the update and go "Yep, that's Microsoft trying to force their crap on me again". Microsoft's well known behavior of forcing updates on the user has already given it a bad reputation in this regard, and has resulted in court cases in the past. So yeah, it's not "user stupidity", it's the stupidity of whoever made the decision to promote Edge by shoving it in users' faces all the time including filetype handler updates.

blackearl 6y ago

>because people don't understand how Windows works, in general. But also because Microsoft aggressively pushed their browser for years. Even with their pitiable language "are you sure you don't want to try our new browser?". It's not just people misunderstanding, Microsoft actively did this throughout W10's lifetime

Stierlitz 6y ago

@ocdtrekkie: “Pretty sure the user is wrong about what caused this dialog. It was the recent Firefox update.” Explain like I'm five how a firefox update would set the default browser to EDGE ;]

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
> Explain like I'm five how a firefox update would set the default browser to EDGE ;] It didn't. The person who posted this didn't read the screen, and fundamentally misunderstood it. The title of the post is wrong. You'll notice that the dialog is asking "How do you want to open .pdf files from now on?" Because Firefox can now be set as a default PDF reader, Windows has a new PDF reader option, so it asks the next time the user tries to open a PDF. (And this has nothing to do with being the default web browser or not.) Next, the user also incorrectly assumed this had set the default to Edge. This is again, because they didn't read. Microsoft has broken out the "Featured in Windows 10" option from the "Other options". But it's asking, it hasn't made a change yet.
- capableweb 6y ago
  As mentioned in my previous comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24374147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24374147), I was also affected by this. Saw the popup first when I clicked on a link in Discord, and Firefox was not updated (I'm doing those updates manually), only new thing from the Windows Update was that now Edge was added to my system + it was added to the bottom bar next to the start button. This is how the dialog looked for me: https://imgur.com/a/cTBcCBC https://imgur.com/a/cTBcCBC
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    That is indeed a default browser dialog (unlike the one from the Reddit post). And yes, it's because the new Edge got installed. Helpfully though, it does show your current default on top. Note that if you install any web browser, Windows will do this.
    - 6y ago

arprocter 6y ago

I saw the same as the reddit OP on my test machine (v2004 Home) A shortcut to Edge also magically appeared on the desktop