7 ms·

So when can we address the elephant in the room and admit plainly that Facebook has net negative value for humanity and if Zuckerberg were a moral agent and no

So when can we address the elephant in the room and admit plainly that Facebook has net negative value for humanity and if Zuckerberg were a moral agent and not an alien lizard king he would have years ago liquidated the thing and imputed its net assets to the shareholders?

switch11 6y ago
That is a simplified assumption everyone starts off human then money distorts things I have seen a lot of very honest people get suckered into doing things they never would once money starts coming in, people's morals change to accommodate how they make money Not everyone can be like Craig Newmark etc. and be indifferent to money
- Barrin92 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure there's an ethical version of Facebook somewhere in there that would still make more money than anyone can blow even if they did hookers and coke 24/7 Goes for software engineers personally as well, the difference between working on something that's ethical and working on something that isn't probably is the difference between a comfortable five figure salary and an absurd six figure one, not living in a subway station
aeternum 6y ago
How have you quantified the impact Facebook has had on humanity? Have you considered all evidence and not just the evidence which confirms your existing worldview?
- smrtinsert 6y ago
  Millions of views of known conspiracy theories is a pretty good measure.
  - toolz 6y ago
    and you're sure that's a bad thing? I think anyone who regularly makes social predictions with falsifiable claims would hesitate to think such a matter is clear cut. People react and behave very unpredictabily.
  - grandridge 6y ago
    I know, russia gate was so obviously fake, it's amazing people fell for that
Waterluvian 6y ago
If The Social Network and some of the stories I’ve read portray Zuckerberg in any accuracy, it seems like he was a very...atypical... social being even before getting rich.
- abraxas 6y ago
  So... a sociopath?
- ericbarrett 6y ago
  They do not. They get a lot of small details right but he is nothing like he is portrayed. I was at Facebook from 2009-2013, and while I didn’t know him personally or interact with him frequently, I was around him and saw him speak often enough to say the above with confidence. One of the biggest errors in the movie is its portrayal of his motivation—by my understanding, he was already dating his wife (Priscilla Chan) before he wrote the first line of code for thefacebook.com. I take no position here on his beliefs, morality, etc. I don’t actually know the man. And there’s no doubt he has some uncanny mannerisms. But the brooding antisocial fast-talking nerd is Jessie Eisenberg, not Mark Zuckerberg. Watch The Social Network and Zombieland back to back and you’ll see.
  - Waterluvian 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing. I’ll have to dig deeper to see what more I can find about this.
alphachloride 6y ago
For me, Facebook is unquestionably a net positive value. I get to keep tabs on friends without actively having to reach out. So people don't become strangers over time. I can discover events around me and expand my social circle. I can be start a business with a free web presence and attract customers. The downsides that are mentioned are deteriorating discourse, misinformation, false expectations and social pressure etc. I like to think I have avoided these. That's 1 data point against. I'll have to see more thorough evidence to concede FB is a net negative.
- doktorhladnjak 6y ago
  Unquestionably? How many of those "friends" that you keep tabs on have you talked to recently? And I don't mean leaving a comment or reading about their lives. One of the most dangerous negative effects of Facebook is that it makes people _feel_ socially connected to someone when they really have no social interaction or connection at all.
  - alphachloride 6y ago
    Yes, unquestionably it is a net positive for me. I have talked to a small minority of my friends that I keep tabs on. Without facebook, I would have talked to an even smaller number. I don't see how the number of chats I have is an exclusive measure of value of that platform. That is but one metric.
- Lineup 6y ago
  Right! And that's really a great point, it can be a positive for individuals. Except that for society it has negative value. This is like opening a mine, extracting all the resources, and leaving behind a poisonous scab on the earth. (Not coincidentally the way I picture MZ.)
  - alphachloride 6y ago
    I have not seen evidence to quantify its value to society as a positive/negative. Would society have been worse off or better off without Facebook? I believe that is not an answerable question because it is alternate history.
jameslk 6y ago
The personal attack isn't necessary to communicate your point.
- rasz 6y ago
  >They "trust me" >Dumb fucks.
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    Who amongst us has not said something (well, many things for me at least) when they were 19?
6510 6y ago
True but conditionally: I blame the Facebook on programmers not delivering these puny tools to the public. We collectively didn't get much further than the blogroll. Sharing something was done with idiotic bookmarklets until firefox (I think it was) sentenced them into the void. For me personally the best "joke" (I think it turned out to be) was to propose freenode profile pages and friends lists. (IRC 3.0!) The mere suggestion made the nerds really angry. When I realized it was a joke I did what all comedians do and added additional puns like putting advertisement on the profiles. Safe to say my development effort was as bad as the response.

switch11 6y ago

That is a simplified assumption everyone starts off human then money distorts things I have seen a lot of very honest people get suckered into doing things they never would once money starts coming in, people's morals change to accommodate how they make money Not everyone can be like Craig Newmark etc. and be indifferent to money

Barrin92 6y ago
I'm pretty sure there's an ethical version of Facebook somewhere in there that would still make more money than anyone can blow even if they did hookers and coke 24/7 Goes for software engineers personally as well, the difference between working on something that's ethical and working on something that isn't probably is the difference between a comfortable five figure salary and an absurd six figure one, not living in a subway station

aeternum 6y ago

How have you quantified the impact Facebook has had on humanity? Have you considered all evidence and not just the evidence which confirms your existing worldview?

smrtinsert 6y ago
Millions of views of known conspiracy theories is a pretty good measure.
- toolz 6y ago
  and you're sure that's a bad thing? I think anyone who regularly makes social predictions with falsifiable claims would hesitate to think such a matter is clear cut. People react and behave very unpredictabily.
- grandridge 6y ago
  I know, russia gate was so obviously fake, it's amazing people fell for that

Waterluvian 6y ago

If The Social Network and some of the stories I’ve read portray Zuckerberg in any accuracy, it seems like he was a very...atypical... social being even before getting rich.

abraxas 6y ago
So... a sociopath?
ericbarrett 6y ago
They do not. They get a lot of small details right but he is nothing like he is portrayed. I was at Facebook from 2009-2013, and while I didn’t know him personally or interact with him frequently, I was around him and saw him speak often enough to say the above with confidence. One of the biggest errors in the movie is its portrayal of his motivation—by my understanding, he was already dating his wife (Priscilla Chan) before he wrote the first line of code for thefacebook.com. I take no position here on his beliefs, morality, etc. I don’t actually know the man. And there’s no doubt he has some uncanny mannerisms. But the brooding antisocial fast-talking nerd is Jessie Eisenberg, not Mark Zuckerberg. Watch The Social Network and Zombieland back to back and you’ll see.
- Waterluvian 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing. I’ll have to dig deeper to see what more I can find about this.

alphachloride 6y ago

For me, Facebook is unquestionably a net positive value. I get to keep tabs on friends without actively having to reach out. So people don't become strangers over time. I can discover events around me and expand my social circle. I can be start a business with a free web presence and attract customers. The downsides that are mentioned are deteriorating discourse, misinformation, false expectations and social pressure etc. I like to think I have avoided these. That's 1 data point against. I'll have to see more thorough evidence to concede FB is a net negative.

doktorhladnjak 6y ago
Unquestionably? How many of those "friends" that you keep tabs on have you talked to recently? And I don't mean leaving a comment or reading about their lives. One of the most dangerous negative effects of Facebook is that it makes people _feel_ socially connected to someone when they really have no social interaction or connection at all.
- alphachloride 6y ago
  Yes, unquestionably it is a net positive for me. I have talked to a small minority of my friends that I keep tabs on. Without facebook, I would have talked to an even smaller number. I don't see how the number of chats I have is an exclusive measure of value of that platform. That is but one metric.
Lineup 6y ago
Right! And that's really a great point, it can be a positive for individuals. Except that for society it has negative value. This is like opening a mine, extracting all the resources, and leaving behind a poisonous scab on the earth. (Not coincidentally the way I picture MZ.)
- alphachloride 6y ago
  I have not seen evidence to quantify its value to society as a positive/negative. Would society have been worse off or better off without Facebook? I believe that is not an answerable question because it is alternate history.

jameslk 6y ago

The personal attack isn't necessary to communicate your point.

rasz 6y ago
>They "trust me" >Dumb fucks.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  Who amongst us has not said something (well, many things for me at least) when they were 19?

6510 6y ago

True but conditionally: I blame the Facebook on programmers not delivering these puny tools to the public. We collectively didn't get much further than the blogroll. Sharing something was done with idiotic bookmarklets until firefox (I think it was) sentenced them into the void. For me personally the best "joke" (I think it turned out to be) was to propose freenode profile pages and friends lists. (IRC 3.0!) The mere suggestion made the nerds really angry. When I realized it was a joke I did what all comedians do and added additional puns like putting advertisement on the profiles. Safe to say my development effort was as bad as the response.