5 ms·

A Twitter thread here gives more context: https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1301591392473538560 https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1301591392473538560 > W

A Twitter thread here gives more context: https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1301591392473538560 https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1301591392473538560 > Wayne Sebastianelli was clear that B10 hasn't cardiac MRI'd every athlete who tested positive for Covid. However, among ones that were cardiac MRI'd (don't know number or why they were MRI'd) about 1/3 "had the level of inflammation that was determined to be myocarditis." ... > One more thing: it wasn’t a “study.” It appears he got this info somewhat informally from other athletic doctors from other schools, which may explain the rough numbers. Among other things. So I'd recommend at least changing the title, as it's not actually the case (that we know of) that 1/3 of covid-positive players have myocarditis, just 1/3 of covid-positive players who were MRIed. Update: It doesn't seem like any other schools are actually seeing this according to reports here: https://saturdaytradition.com/big-ten-football/report-multiple-b1g-schools-say-were-not-experiencing-high-levels-of-myocarditis-among-student-athletes/ https://saturdaytradition.com/big-ten-football/report-multip...

jdminhbg 6y ago
In a further update, Sebastianelli (via Penn State) has walked the entire thing back: https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1301644428025540608 https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1301644428025540608
- mrfusion 6y ago
  But the fear has been stoked. No one will see the retraction.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- disown 6y ago
  From 30-35% in all big ten athletes with covid to... "At this time, there have been no cases of myocarditis in covid-19 positive student-athletes at Penn State." So walked back from the entire conference to a single university which didn't have a single case. What is going on?
  - jdminhbg 6y ago
    There’s an article here that walks through a little of what happened: https://sports.yahoo.com/nuance-lost-in-penn-state-doctors-report-on-covid-19-athletes-with-myocarditis-212430060.html https://sports.yahoo.com/nuance-lost-in-penn-state-doctors-r... A local paper wrote an article on a couple sentences from Sebastianelli’s hour-long talk to a local school board about whether sports were safe during covid. During that talk, he off-handedly mentioned this 30-35% number that he heard from some other doctor. He probably misheard or misinterpreted it. But once the number gets into a headline, it becomes a study showing a medical fact. Even after the retraction (not really a retraction in that it’s not something that was ever published in the first place), that number is still in a HN front page title.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
wtvanhest 6y ago
Yeah, they also should have MRId non-covid athletes to get a baseline. The entire thing is just click-bait without more details.
- waterhouse 6y ago
  Non-COVID is one thing, but even among those with COVID, we may have a biased sample here. Suppose that 97% of the COVID athletes didn't have chest pain or other symptoms of myocarditis and thus had no reason to get an MRI, and that the remaining 3% is broken down into "2% got an MRI and didn't have myocarditis, 1% got an MRI and did have myocarditis"; that would match the reported 1/3 rate of myocarditis among those who got MRI'd, but it would be only 1% among those with COVID. We've seen this type of sampling bias before, where people having a problem makes them more likely to choose to get tested for it, which leads to an unrealistically high "x% of people have this problem" estimate.
just-juan-post 6y ago
@dang Could we please get an updated headline seeing as how the source walked back his claims? Thanks!
m0zg 6y ago
Seeing that athletes routinely take PEDs to help with recovery and muscle growth, I'm curious as to the rate of heart muscle inflammation in C19-negative athletes as well.
- LegitShady 6y ago
  My bet is athletes have much healthier hearts than non athletes. Most competitive university sports test for real peds.
  - m0zg 6y ago
    Could be. I'm not a doctor. But I think you will still agree that a survey of the rest of the group would be necessary to draw any valid, non-clickbait conclusions whatsoever.
    - LegitShady 6y ago
      I do agree.
- nradov 6y ago
  Anabolic steroids and some other PEDs are a known risk factor for heart damage. I think that increased testing has made those are less common now among college athletes compared to 10 years ago, but obviously it's hard to get reliable data on that. https://newsroom.heart.org/news/chronic-anabolic-steroid-use-may-damage-heart-arteries https://newsroom.heart.org/news/chronic-anabolic-steroid-use...

jdminhbg 6y ago

In a further update, Sebastianelli (via Penn State) has walked the entire thing back: https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1301644428025540608 https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1301644428025540608

mrfusion 6y ago
But the fear has been stoked. No one will see the retraction.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
disown 6y ago
From 30-35% in all big ten athletes with covid to... "At this time, there have been no cases of myocarditis in covid-19 positive student-athletes at Penn State." So walked back from the entire conference to a single university which didn't have a single case. What is going on?
- jdminhbg 6y ago
  There’s an article here that walks through a little of what happened: https://sports.yahoo.com/nuance-lost-in-penn-state-doctors-report-on-covid-19-athletes-with-myocarditis-212430060.html https://sports.yahoo.com/nuance-lost-in-penn-state-doctors-r... A local paper wrote an article on a couple sentences from Sebastianelli’s hour-long talk to a local school board about whether sports were safe during covid. During that talk, he off-handedly mentioned this 30-35% number that he heard from some other doctor. He probably misheard or misinterpreted it. But once the number gets into a headline, it becomes a study showing a medical fact. Even after the retraction (not really a retraction in that it’s not something that was ever published in the first place), that number is still in a HN front page title.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

wtvanhest 6y ago

Yeah, they also should have MRId non-covid athletes to get a baseline. The entire thing is just click-bait without more details.

waterhouse 6y ago
Non-COVID is one thing, but even among those with COVID, we may have a biased sample here. Suppose that 97% of the COVID athletes didn't have chest pain or other symptoms of myocarditis and thus had no reason to get an MRI, and that the remaining 3% is broken down into "2% got an MRI and didn't have myocarditis, 1% got an MRI and did have myocarditis"; that would match the reported 1/3 rate of myocarditis among those who got MRI'd, but it would be only 1% among those with COVID. We've seen this type of sampling bias before, where people having a problem makes them more likely to choose to get tested for it, which leads to an unrealistically high "x% of people have this problem" estimate.

just-juan-post 6y ago

@dang Could we please get an updated headline seeing as how the source walked back his claims? Thanks!

m0zg 6y ago

Seeing that athletes routinely take PEDs to help with recovery and muscle growth, I'm curious as to the rate of heart muscle inflammation in C19-negative athletes as well.

LegitShady 6y ago
My bet is athletes have much healthier hearts than non athletes. Most competitive university sports test for real peds.
- m0zg 6y ago
  Could be. I'm not a doctor. But I think you will still agree that a survey of the rest of the group would be necessary to draw any valid, non-clickbait conclusions whatsoever.
  - LegitShady 6y ago
    I do agree.
nradov 6y ago
Anabolic steroids and some other PEDs are a known risk factor for heart damage. I think that increased testing has made those are less common now among college athletes compared to 10 years ago, but obviously it's hard to get reliable data on that. https://newsroom.heart.org/news/chronic-anabolic-steroid-use-may-damage-heart-arteries https://newsroom.heart.org/news/chronic-anabolic-steroid-use...