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Really saddened to hear this. I've only recently started digging into his work and I can only imagine how it'll impact my worldview for years to come. For tho

Really saddened to hear this. I've only recently started digging into his work and I can only imagine how it'll impact my worldview for years to come. For those unfamiliar with his work, here are some essays I recommend as a start: 1. On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs: https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/ https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/ 2. What's the Point If We Can't Have Fun? https://thebaffler.com/salvos/whats-the-point-if-we-cant-hav.. https://thebaffler.com/salvos/whats-the-point-if-we-cant-hav.... 3. How to change the course of human history (at least, the part that’s already happened) https://www.eurozine.com/change-course-human-history/ https://www.eurozine.com/change-course-human-history/

marmaduke 6y ago
buy and read Debt: the first 5000 years. It is an eye opening perspective on world history. His Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology is also one I always wished to read a follow up on.
- programmarchy 6y ago
  Great book. It was the exit ramp from the libertarian history of money for me.
- noneeeed 6y ago
  I should probably give that another go when I have more time. I got part way in and just stopped after a while as it just seemed to be taking forever to get anywhere. It's a bit like Better Angels of Our Nature, which I got about 1/3rd of the way through before getting bored of the same point being demonstrated over and over. There's something to be said for making serious time for reading serious books, rather than reading them piecemeal over too long a time as I did back then.
  - lmohseni 6y ago
    In my opionion, it seemed to really "pick up" around chapter 6, "games with sex and death" when it really started to get into anthropological nuts and bolts.
    - noneeeed 6y ago
      That's good to know, thanks.
- TheTrotters 6y ago
  But also be sure to read critiques of Debt written by economists. Here’s one by Noah Smith: http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt-first-5000-years.html?m=1 http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt-...
  - tome 6y ago
    Thanks for linking that. It does a good job of drawing out some of the feelings I had when I read Debt. On the one hand I'm very glad I read the book. I found it very enlightening in terms of various aspects of history and anthropology, as well as enlightening about various leftist ideas. On the other hand I can't say I came away feeling like I had read a "correct analysis" or that I really understood any better how anything worked. (I'm quite surprised to see so much praise for it on HN actually and such little challenge, the sad news about the passing of its author notwithstanding.) [EDIT: There are also some good counterpoints to Noah Smith's critique in the comments, for example https://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt-first-5000-years.html?showComment=1415178947855&m=1#c8998974327663826104 https://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt...]
  - specialist 6y ago
    From that reply: "While markets are one thing, capitalism is quite another, though, as it's marked by the power imbalances of wage labor, something not found in all previous incidences of commerce..." Upvote for dissembling markets from capitalism. But I really wish the peanut gallery would also separate corporatism from capitalism. There's nothing about capitalism (dogma, theory, practice) which prohibits the surplus (profit) from being shared with labor.
    - aabhay 6y ago
      That’s like saying there’s nothing inherently about dictatorships that makes them oppressive. While yes you can invent a hypothetical situation where the capitalists give all their money to workers, the overwhelming empirical history is that capitalists don’t share their profit with laborers.
- mFixman 6y ago
  I can't be the only one who thought that book was grasping at straws for validation most of the time. The book makes some very strong theories without much explanation, and then finds random tidbids of evidence to support them while ignoring the rest of the world. To me it felt closer to Guns, Germs and Steel than to serious history-of-the-world type of books. Maybe if the author's theory was less radical it would have worked, but I was having a hard time believing that what he wrote was anywhere near true.
  - lazzlazzlazz 6y ago
    Honestly, I've been amazed by the outpouring of positive comments — but I think that's to be expected in the aftermath of the man's death, which is sad to hear. I found `Debt` to be awful and increasingly false the more I learn about the history and purpose of debt through my additional reading and professional experience. It's definitely a "pop political economics" book, and feels like it.
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      Can you elaborate some of your objections?
maybelsyrup 6y ago
I just clicked your link to "What's the point if we can't have fun?" and read the whole thing without really intending to (I told myself I was just gonna bookmark it). In many ways, the pieces I've read of Graber's have gone over my head (someone down-thread mentioned "Debt" taking them months to read because every two pages was original enough to ponder for days at a time). But what stands out to me was how much fun I always have reading him. Often, I'm laughing - and I've read other anthropologists and can say that, for instance, Clifford Geertz wasn't exactly humorous. I'm not trying to be trite here. I believe that, whatever your beliefs, your character and personality can be revealed in your writing in a way that stands alone, apart from whatever argument you might be making. I never met Graeber, but from his writing, he always seemed like a person I'd enjoy the hell out of having dinner with. Salute to a real one!
stephenSinniah 6y ago
David's work has had a big impact on me, I'm so sad, I can't even get my thoughts together. He has some good interviews and talks on youtube as well, do check it out. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxshXRDlxRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxshXRDlxRo 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn78MhPmbCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn78MhPmbCc 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YynqVvgZYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YynqVvgZYI
Balgair 6y ago
A 'challenge' to HNers out there from What's the Point If We Can't Have Fun. Try getting an 'A' on this passage. The answer, per Graeber, is in the text. But I'd love to see some other attempts from you all on here. Maybe comment down below and then look at Graeber's answer. Personally, I was unable to solve the last little bit and get an 'A'. It's a very good one to mull over: --- Years ago, when I taught at Yale, I would sometimes assign a reading containing a famous Taoist story. I offered an automatic “A” to any student who could tell me why the last line made sense. (None ever succeeded.) Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling on a bridge over the River Hao, when the former observed, “See how the minnows dart between the rocks! Such is the happiness of fishes.” “You not being a fish,” said Huizi, “how can you possibly know what makes fish happy?” “And you not being I,” said Zhuangzi, “how can you know that I don’t know what makes fish happy?” “If I, not being you, cannot know what you know,” replied Huizi, “does it not follow from that very fact that you, not being a fish, cannot know what makes fish happy?” “Let us go back,” said Zhuangzi, “to your original question. You asked me how I knew what makes fish happy. The very fact you asked shows that you knew I knew—as I did know, from my own feelings on this bridge.” --- Indeed David, it was fun.

marmaduke 6y ago

buy and read Debt: the first 5000 years. It is an eye opening perspective on world history. His Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology is also one I always wished to read a follow up on.

programmarchy 6y ago
Great book. It was the exit ramp from the libertarian history of money for me.
noneeeed 6y ago
I should probably give that another go when I have more time. I got part way in and just stopped after a while as it just seemed to be taking forever to get anywhere. It's a bit like Better Angels of Our Nature, which I got about 1/3rd of the way through before getting bored of the same point being demonstrated over and over. There's something to be said for making serious time for reading serious books, rather than reading them piecemeal over too long a time as I did back then.
- lmohseni 6y ago
  In my opionion, it seemed to really "pick up" around chapter 6, "games with sex and death" when it really started to get into anthropological nuts and bolts.
  - noneeeed 6y ago
    That's good to know, thanks.
TheTrotters 6y ago
But also be sure to read critiques of Debt written by economists. Here’s one by Noah Smith: http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt-first-5000-years.html?m=1 http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt-...
- tome 6y ago
  Thanks for linking that. It does a good job of drawing out some of the feelings I had when I read Debt. On the one hand I'm very glad I read the book. I found it very enlightening in terms of various aspects of history and anthropology, as well as enlightening about various leftist ideas. On the other hand I can't say I came away feeling like I had read a "correct analysis" or that I really understood any better how anything worked. (I'm quite surprised to see so much praise for it on HN actually and such little challenge, the sad news about the passing of its author notwithstanding.) [EDIT: There are also some good counterpoints to Noah Smith's critique in the comments, for example https://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt-first-5000-years.html?showComment=1415178947855&m=1#c8998974327663826104 https://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/book-review-debt...]
- specialist 6y ago
  From that reply: "While markets are one thing, capitalism is quite another, though, as it's marked by the power imbalances of wage labor, something not found in all previous incidences of commerce..." Upvote for dissembling markets from capitalism. But I really wish the peanut gallery would also separate corporatism from capitalism. There's nothing about capitalism (dogma, theory, practice) which prohibits the surplus (profit) from being shared with labor.
  - aabhay 6y ago
    That’s like saying there’s nothing inherently about dictatorships that makes them oppressive. While yes you can invent a hypothetical situation where the capitalists give all their money to workers, the overwhelming empirical history is that capitalists don’t share their profit with laborers.
mFixman 6y ago
I can't be the only one who thought that book was grasping at straws for validation most of the time. The book makes some very strong theories without much explanation, and then finds random tidbids of evidence to support them while ignoring the rest of the world. To me it felt closer to Guns, Germs and Steel than to serious history-of-the-world type of books. Maybe if the author's theory was less radical it would have worked, but I was having a hard time believing that what he wrote was anywhere near true.
- lazzlazzlazz 6y ago
  Honestly, I've been amazed by the outpouring of positive comments — but I think that's to be expected in the aftermath of the man's death, which is sad to hear. I found `Debt` to be awful and increasingly false the more I learn about the history and purpose of debt through my additional reading and professional experience. It's definitely a "pop political economics" book, and feels like it.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    Can you elaborate some of your objections?

maybelsyrup 6y ago

I just clicked your link to "What's the point if we can't have fun?" and read the whole thing without really intending to (I told myself I was just gonna bookmark it). In many ways, the pieces I've read of Graber's have gone over my head (someone down-thread mentioned "Debt" taking them months to read because every two pages was original enough to ponder for days at a time). But what stands out to me was how much fun I always have reading him. Often, I'm laughing - and I've read other anthropologists and can say that, for instance, Clifford Geertz wasn't exactly humorous. I'm not trying to be trite here. I believe that, whatever your beliefs, your character and personality can be revealed in your writing in a way that stands alone, apart from whatever argument you might be making. I never met Graeber, but from his writing, he always seemed like a person I'd enjoy the hell out of having dinner with. Salute to a real one!

stephenSinniah 6y ago

David's work has had a big impact on me, I'm so sad, I can't even get my thoughts together. He has some good interviews and talks on youtube as well, do check it out. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxshXRDlxRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxshXRDlxRo 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn78MhPmbCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn78MhPmbCc 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YynqVvgZYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YynqVvgZYI

Balgair 6y ago

A 'challenge' to HNers out there from What's the Point If We Can't Have Fun. Try getting an 'A' on this passage. The answer, per Graeber, is in the text. But I'd love to see some other attempts from you all on here. Maybe comment down below and then look at Graeber's answer. Personally, I was unable to solve the last little bit and get an 'A'. It's a very good one to mull over: --- Years ago, when I taught at Yale, I would sometimes assign a reading containing a famous Taoist story. I offered an automatic “A” to any student who could tell me why the last line made sense. (None ever succeeded.) Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling on a bridge over the River Hao, when the former observed, “See how the minnows dart between the rocks! Such is the happiness of fishes.” “You not being a fish,” said Huizi, “how can you possibly know what makes fish happy?” “And you not being I,” said Zhuangzi, “how can you know that I don’t know what makes fish happy?” “If I, not being you, cannot know what you know,” replied Huizi, “does it not follow from that very fact that you, not being a fish, cannot know what makes fish happy?” “Let us go back,” said Zhuangzi, “to your original question. You asked me how I knew what makes fish happy. The very fact you asked shows that you knew I knew—as I did know, from my own feelings on this bridge.” --- Indeed David, it was fun.