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How does this work considering PHP is heavily made up of code from Zend (which was an Israeli company) Can Iranian-built websites not use PHP?

by Navarr 6y ago

Gaelan 6y ago
In fact, this is a PR on a PHP-language repo!
sushshshsh 6y ago
Depends if the Iranian authorities in question care about prosecuting/arresting the person in question, aka how connected is the coder to the government
aaomidi 6y ago
First rule about Iran. Nothing is logically consistent.
duxup 6y ago
Arguably, maybe, I don't think the law in question is particularly... practical. It's purely political it seems and fairly arbitrary. It's possible 'usage' might not be considered a relationship, but 'interacting' with a PR might? But I'm trying to be practical and I suspect the law was not written by anyone intending to be practical.
burnte 6y ago
They were an American company that took investment money from an Israeli VC, that doesn't make them an Israeli company.
- oaiey 6y ago
  The owners of Zend, Zeev and Andi are indeed Israeli making it a company under Israeli control for some time no matter what. This whole story makes me sad.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Navarr 6y ago
    I've been doing more googling and several articles refer to it as "Israel's Zend Technologies"[1] before the acquisition by Roguewave. 1: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/1.4891691 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/1.4891691
gruez 6y ago
>Zend (which was an Israeli company) What? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zend_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zend_(company) >Zend, formerly Zend Technologies, is a Minneapolis, Minnesota-based software company owned by software developer Perforce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perforce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perforce >Perforce, legally Perforce Software, Inc., is an American developer of software [...]
- Navarr 6y ago
  Zend was bought by RogueWave who was bought by Perforce. Zend was founded by Israelis, from that same article on Zend: > Zend Technologies was founded by Andi Gutmans and Zeev Suraski who, along with other Israeli graduates of the Technion, the Israel Institute of technology I am currently assuming it was founded in Israel, but to be fair the article does not explicitly say where it was founded.
- newswasboring 6y ago
  from the history section > Zend Technologies was founded by Andi Gutmans and Zeev Suraski who, along with other Israeli graduates of the Technion, the Israel Institute of technology, further developed PHP after its initial creation by Rasmus Lerdorf. The name Zend is a combination of Suraski's and Gutmans' forenames, Zeev and Andi.[citation needed] Deliberately kept the citation needed, but still it is Israil origin which is enough for persecution.
- sulam 6y ago
  Really? Did you somehow miss the whole section describing Israeli founders, Israeli VC, and the fact that it has been acquired not once, but twice since founding? "was" an Israeli company is entirely accurate.
- josefx 6y ago
  > What? Probably confusion stemming from one of PHPs well known hebrew identifier names that ended up making some error messages useless: T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM .
IngvarLynn 6y ago
There is no rule of law in dictatorship so your question makes no sense. The proper question would be "What are my chances of being repressed given my connections to the opposion|ruling elites?".
- renewiltord 6y ago
  This is the only right answer here at this time. If you haven't lived in these conditions you don't really know how it works. "Plausible deniability" does not work. "Citing which laws make this legal" do not work. It doesn't actually matter whether or not Zend is Israeli or whatever. Forming some coherent reductio ad absurdum (ah ha! But if we followed your law then it is clear we would not be able to function at all! But we are able to function, a contradiction! This must mean your law is not to be followed!) will only welcome you to jail. What you do is stay far from Sauron's eye. And if you're under Sauron's eye, you make sure you look loyal.
caseysoftware 6y ago
It has nothing do with if you can or not. It depends on if you do something to attract their negative attention. Once you're being "investigated" anything you've said or done, your entire history is up for grabs. If that's not enough, the "investigators" will create the "evidence" or find "witnesses" who can claim you've said/done horrible* things so they can quickly handle the punishment. Astute observers will see some parallels with other groups. * For whatever today's definition of "horrible" is.
- bitdizzy 6y ago
  > Astute observers will see some parallels with other groups. I'm a little naive and curious about this. The examples that come to mind are HR departments I've worked with. What were you thinking of?
  - andruby 6y ago
    Godwin’s law is the first thing that I thought of. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
- hinkley 6y ago
  Cardinal Richelieu is alive and well and living in the Tropics. “Give me six lines written by the most honest man in the world, and I will find enough in them to hang him.”

How does this work considering PHP is heavily made up of code from Zend (which was an Israeli company) Can Iranian-built websites not use PHP?

by Navarr 6y ago

How does this work considering PHP is heavily made up of code from Zend (which was an Israeli company) Can Iranian-built websites not use PHP?

Gaelan 6y ago

In fact, this is a PR on a PHP-language repo!

sushshshsh 6y ago

Depends if the Iranian authorities in question care about prosecuting/arresting the person in question, aka how connected is the coder to the government

aaomidi 6y ago

First rule about Iran. Nothing is logically consistent.

duxup 6y ago

Arguably, maybe, I don't think the law in question is particularly... practical. It's purely political it seems and fairly arbitrary. It's possible 'usage' might not be considered a relationship, but 'interacting' with a PR might? But I'm trying to be practical and I suspect the law was not written by anyone intending to be practical.

burnte 6y ago

They were an American company that took investment money from an Israeli VC, that doesn't make them an Israeli company.

oaiey 6y ago
The owners of Zend, Zeev and Andi are indeed Israeli making it a company under Israeli control for some time no matter what. This whole story makes me sad.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Navarr 6y ago
  I've been doing more googling and several articles refer to it as "Israel's Zend Technologies"[1] before the acquisition by Roguewave. 1: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/1.4891691 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/1.4891691

gruez 6y ago

>Zend (which was an Israeli company) What? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zend_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zend_(company) >Zend, formerly Zend Technologies, is a Minneapolis, Minnesota-based software company owned by software developer Perforce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perforce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perforce >Perforce, legally Perforce Software, Inc., is an American developer of software [...]

Navarr 6y ago
Zend was bought by RogueWave who was bought by Perforce. Zend was founded by Israelis, from that same article on Zend: > Zend Technologies was founded by Andi Gutmans and Zeev Suraski who, along with other Israeli graduates of the Technion, the Israel Institute of technology I am currently assuming it was founded in Israel, but to be fair the article does not explicitly say where it was founded.
newswasboring 6y ago
from the history section > Zend Technologies was founded by Andi Gutmans and Zeev Suraski who, along with other Israeli graduates of the Technion, the Israel Institute of technology, further developed PHP after its initial creation by Rasmus Lerdorf. The name Zend is a combination of Suraski's and Gutmans' forenames, Zeev and Andi.[citation needed] Deliberately kept the citation needed, but still it is Israil origin which is enough for persecution.
sulam 6y ago
Really? Did you somehow miss the whole section describing Israeli founders, Israeli VC, and the fact that it has been acquired not once, but twice since founding? "was" an Israeli company is entirely accurate.
josefx 6y ago
> What? Probably confusion stemming from one of PHPs well known hebrew identifier names that ended up making some error messages useless: T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM .

IngvarLynn 6y ago

There is no rule of law in dictatorship so your question makes no sense. The proper question would be "What are my chances of being repressed given my connections to the opposion|ruling elites?".

renewiltord 6y ago
This is the only right answer here at this time. If you haven't lived in these conditions you don't really know how it works. "Plausible deniability" does not work. "Citing which laws make this legal" do not work. It doesn't actually matter whether or not Zend is Israeli or whatever. Forming some coherent reductio ad absurdum (ah ha! But if we followed your law then it is clear we would not be able to function at all! But we are able to function, a contradiction! This must mean your law is not to be followed!) will only welcome you to jail. What you do is stay far from Sauron's eye. And if you're under Sauron's eye, you make sure you look loyal.

caseysoftware 6y ago

It has nothing do with if you can or not. It depends on if you do something to attract their negative attention. Once you're being "investigated" anything you've said or done, your entire history is up for grabs. If that's not enough, the "investigators" will create the "evidence" or find "witnesses" who can claim you've said/done horrible* things so they can quickly handle the punishment. Astute observers will see some parallels with other groups. * For whatever today's definition of "horrible" is.

bitdizzy 6y ago
> Astute observers will see some parallels with other groups. I'm a little naive and curious about this. The examples that come to mind are HR departments I've worked with. What were you thinking of?
- andruby 6y ago
  Godwin’s law is the first thing that I thought of. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
hinkley 6y ago
Cardinal Richelieu is alive and well and living in the Tropics. “Give me six lines written by the most honest man in the world, and I will find enough in them to hang him.”