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Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

165 points by gcds 6y ago

calvinmorrison 6y ago
I like that the schematics are included on the air conditioner. I have a few older appliances like this that have it, and it has helped me a few times replacing/diagnosing parts. I laughed a bit where he explains about "Humidity" and the temperature. I know Americans are fat and lazy and love our AC's, but if you spend any time on the east coast, it's a giant swamp. Life is pretty insufferable without an AC when you are sitting inside all day working - and newer buildings are not designed with passive cooling in mind. I'd like to thank my forerunners for sucking it up but I basically keep my 3 window unit AC's on from June-Sept in Philadelphia.
- 7thaccount 6y ago
  In Louisiana and Arkansas (probably several other states), the temperature can get over 100 Farenheit with super high humidity. This leads to "swamp @$$" without copious amounts of AC. Being comfortable requires AC in the home, car, and at work. In highschool gym class we would just sit in the shade under the bleachers during the summer (too hot to do anything) and be dripping sweat everywhere back in class. It was miserable. It's just so miserable during the summer. The downside is that I'm only used to temperatures between 69 and 74 Farenheit, so I would be miserable in some place like Germany where they just live with the heat for a few weeks each year. I rented a house in Portland once without AC and it was during a heat wave. I'd douse myself in cold water, sit under the fan, and get very little sleep. A hurricane just hit Louisiana and the grid damage has been extensive (worst on record) so no power or AC. My mother's house is 85 degrees inside at night so she's sleeping in her office which is in a nearby town with power. I haven't seen the numbers yet, but typically a lot of elderly people die in these conditions without AC. The hurricane hit last Thursday I think and these are the current outages still in effect. Normally we would have power again in a couple of days in most non rural areas. The fact that it's been a full week and could be out for two more weeks is just unheard of. https://poweroutage.us/area/state/louisiana https://poweroutage.us/area/state/louisiana
  - kijin 6y ago
    We love to romanticize the past, when people supposedly did fine without energy-wasting gadgets. The oft-forgotten truth is that people in the past just died more. And still do, in many parts of the world that are surprisingly close to us.
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      And are/were substantially less productive. When Singapore developed, the first thing the PM did was install A/C in all government buildings. https://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew-air-conditioning https://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew...
    - s0rce 6y ago
      Heating buildings still takes more energy than air conditioning (usually much larger temperature differentials), people in the past used an enormous amount of energy on heating. They just consumed and generated the energy locally in the form of burning fuel, probably wood and coal instead of using an electric grid or natural gas. Also, I don't think A/C is any more of an energy wasting gadget than a heater. I can survive, moderately comfortable on a camping trip down to -10C, probably colder if I needed but I certainly wouldn't want my office/home to get that cold. Similarly, I don't want my house to be 30C with 85% RH.
  - dpeck 6y ago
    As much as A/C is amazing, it’s the lack of moving air that makes me the most uncomfortable. I’ve always been surprised at how much of Europe seems to have no interest in fans, ceiling or otherwise.
    - vyrotek 6y ago
      In Italy many are worried about "colpo d'aria" (blast of air) which they blame for all sorts of health problems. They also dislike ice in their drinks and think eating/swallowing some will hurt you too. I'm not certain whether the current generation of youth believe it or not. Source: Mother is Italian.
- gcds 6y ago
  I was more targeting Europeans with that paragraph as I never had any issues with it in Europe (UK, Germany, Lithuania)
- brudgers 6y ago
  Pretty much every AC in the US has schematics somewhere behind a cover plate because field service by ordinarily trained technicians is a part of the equipment's life cycle. Basically, it's a safety issue (it might even be a UL requirement, I just didn't go that far down the google rabbit hole beyond the UL White Book https://legacy-uploads.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UL-White-Book.pdf https://legacy-uploads.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UL-...).
- nine_k 6y ago
  Actually, going to the office on a July morning in NYC feels very much like you're in e.g. Hong Kong; if you cross e.g. the Brooklyn bridge, you also see the typical haze of very high humidity over the water. Sometimes it's an actual fog at, say, 80-85F around. At least it's picturesque at times.
sergers 6y ago
Is this really specific to Japanese air conditioners? Or is this really about mini-split ac that are manufactured around the world under many companies. I don't see whats specifically Japanese outside of the person using Panasonic and is in Japan. The person could be in the USA with Mrcool mini split, it would be a similar article. Edit: title has been changed to remove mention of Japan, so my nitpick may no longer valid:)
- agwa 6y ago
  I've never seen an apartment building in the US with special pipes for running the refrigerant lines. It's just not feasible to install a mini split in the US if you're renting, but it appears Japan is totally set up for it.
  - gcds 6y ago
    Impossible to live without AC in Japan. Also almost every move company can remove/install AC's pretty easily so it's kinda convient. Also if all rooms already have installed AC's then apartment rent price is much higher than similar without it so it's 50/50 what you want.
    - agwa 6y ago
      It's the same in many parts of the US, but unless the apartment comes with central AC, we're stuck with noisy and inefficient window AC units[1], or worse, portable AC units[2]. [1] https://www.mytrustedcontractor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Window-AC-Unit.jpg https://www.mytrustedcontractor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/... [2] https://www.lg.com/us/images/air-conditioners/md05186704/gallery/medium02.jpg https://www.lg.com/us/images/air-conditioners/md05186704/gal...
    - driverdan 6y ago
      > Impossible to live without AC in Japan Come on. People lived there for thousands of years before AC.
      - 6y ago
djanogo 6y ago
Where are the refrigerant lines, how did they run them from compressor to evaporator?, I thought the biggest issue with AC self install is filling the refrigerant and sealing those lines.
- wintermutestwin 6y ago
  There are some mini-splits that have a "quick connect" type of tether that don't require a professional to install. Here is one: https://www.forestair.ca/en/serie-mini-anglais https://www.forestair.ca/en/serie-mini-anglais
  - andrewmunsell 6y ago
    I looked at that model (I can't install a traditional mini-split at my apartment) as a way of reducing the noise in my bedroom b/c of the AC, but the reviews are mostly bad, and many related to issues with the refrigerant after trying to disconnect and reconnect it over time...
- sokoloff 6y ago
  There are units that come with compressors pre-charged with an amount of refrigerant for the units and a lineset length of between X and Y. You can also buy linesets of different lengths that have all the ends pre-fabricated. After installing everything, you open two valves on the compressor unit to flood the lineset and evaporator with the refrigerant. It's not perfect [the lines are likely to have some water vapor in them], but it works. (The manufacturers also charge a premium for these "DIY" versions, so if you can find a way to do the traditional charging, you can save some money [or apply that towards an HVAC tech to come out, do a quick vac the lines/leak test/charge].
- gcds 6y ago
  Like are those wall color piping on the left side. The mini split ACs in japan come with precharged outdoor unit which has valves closed so the installers route lines from indoor to outdoor unit (using already packed with insulation lines). The connections are made using flare connectors. After all connected they use vacuum pump to evacuate air from lines and then opened up lines that's basically all in the installation.
mc32 6y ago
What I’d like to know is how they safely pipe gas to all apartments given the occurrence of earthquakes. Does the main valve auto shut off in the event of tremors above M3 of something?
- gcds 6y ago
  There is heavy measures regarding that topic. One is Gas Meter turns off all the gas when earthquake happens. Second I think all pipes are flexible so it wouldn't break from earthquakes
bemmu 6y ago
I also live in Japan, and recently bought 3 new air conditioners, but my instinct was the opposite: forego anything "smart". For tech like that I want it to be as dumb as possible so that there are less things that can go wrong with it. As a bonus the dumb ones are much cheaper as well.
- gcds 6y ago
  Those 2 AC's there almost the cheapest models you can buy for 6 tatami size and iirc they were 39k/ea. I needed to buy those modules extra to make it "smart"
  - bemmu 6y ago
    Nice, your now smartened ones are actually cheaper than our dumb ones then. I was looking at CS-220DFR, also for 6 tatami, for which the best price on Kakaku is 49k (tax inclusive). But in the end we got three Daikin ones from our moving company, because their prices were similar (actually almost felt like we get the moving service as a bonus), and it seems very convenient to have one company do everything. Curious to see if they try to sneak in some extra fees at the last moment, because as it is I wonder if they're actually making a profit with us.
    - gcds 6y ago
      Exacatly my 30k install cost for 2 ACs were high already after all works they like so it will be 15k extra I am like WHUT but oh well it's japan next time going to rent tools for 5k and materials for like 10k max. My unit CS-229CFR with tax I think was 42k or similar and model to make it smart was +5k so it was still cheaper than cheapest smart model
roel_v 6y ago
Should've bought Daikin A/C's - their network bridges speak HTTP with a simple REST service. Highly recommend, it was very easy to integrate them into my home automation setup.
- gcds 6y ago
  I have already one Panasonic AC, so mixing them didn't feel right. Plus I have few extra Echonet Lite devices in home so it would be easier for my case.
  - roel_v 6y ago
    Yeah then it makes sense
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  A lot of consumer-grade ACs use IR-based remotes which can easily be connected into whatever automation solution you have with something like a Broadlink bridge.
  - gcds 6y ago
    Yes, but only downside of that is beep sounds and stateless, while Echonet Lite can provide you all internal properties like outdoor temp and etc and also current settings.
  - roel_v 6y ago
    You can't query those for the current room temp, current settings etc. So then if you mix the OEM app & your home automation app, things get messed up. IR bridges are a hack in home automation, when buying new stuff avoid them.
    - squeaky-clean 6y ago
      Just my personal opinion, but the thermometer on an A/C unit is kind of worthless unless you sit within a foot of the unit. I prefer being able to read a sensor on the opposite side of the room, or even several sensors throughout the house, rather than one on the A/C unit. I don't use any OEM app at all, just my own. The OEM ones never do exactly what I want, so I have to hack something additional onto their features anyways. Home automation systems are really personal anyways though. I'm sure anyone here who's implemented their own has their own unique opinions about what's best ;)
rsync 6y ago
Having individual heating and cooling units (per unit gas heaters!) is stupendously inefficient. I travel in Asia fairly regularly so this isn't new to me, but even after all of these years I can't believe I continue to see shiny, brand new "high end" condo buildings in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Seoul, etc., with individual AC units hanging out the window. Contrast this with a condo in Minneapolis that I own wherein heat and AC are central in the building and individual units can set their temperature to whatever they like - all run with tremendously higher efficiency. It was explained to me once that there are Asian (specifically, Chinese) attitudes towards thrift that make it inconceivable/impossible to pay for AC that someone else might be using (or misusing). I don't know how true that is. What I do know is, my building in MPLS looks very nice without several hundred crappy boxes hanging out the windows.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Lately new condo builds in Toronto will have an in-unit heat pump that fails within 5 years (and May or may not sound like a spaceship), with a coolant line going to a central unit that’ll have a geothermal/auxiliary heating/cooling loop, that also tends to fail. All in all, a stupid system in practice. Only benefit of it all is that you don’t have to wait for the building to change between heating or cooling mode. At least we tend to still have central hot water and don’t meter water yet. Metering can make a lot of sense, but not when your account fee is $15-$20/month. Any reduction in use just means some rich dude goes on more jet vacations.
  - bkovacev 6y ago
    Why would it fail within 5 years? Isn't the usual lifespan of those pumps 10-15 years?
- gcds 6y ago
  I think it's more efficient to heat/cool single room than all house when for e.g. you spend most of the day in office/living room and then go to bed. That way you only have one AC running but of course if you have big family then it maybe makes sense but still... Those mini split AC efficiency is much higher than I have seen in US ducted systems (follow few channels) because mini splits uses inverter technology for higher efficiencies.
boxed 6y ago
Just by luck before the pandemic hit I installed ground heat exchange with cooling for my house. This is so efficient the cooling is free. How do you ask is that even thermodynamically possible? Well all the heat from the cooling is used to heat the hole, which you get back in cheaper heating of the house from the same hole in winter. It's amazing!
lxe 6y ago
I just did a DIY install of a mini split AC, including running electrical and the refrigerant lines, having never done so before. There was a whole "hidden side of the iceberg" to learn besides just the controller parts of how it works. The unit cost was ~600 while the install would have been ~1500, so I was betting that if I mess up catastrophically I could replace the whole thing once or even twice.
- zaroth 6y ago
  Would love to read the write up!
- OnACoffeeBreak 6y ago
  Did you have to get your work inspected? Where I live in the United States, the electrical lines would have to be inspected for compliance with building code, and I am not sure about the HVAC lines.
  - lxe 6y ago
    Electrical needs a permit, but AC is not a necessity apparently.
- miahi 6y ago
  Did you use a vacuum pump for the refrigerant lines? If air is still inside the lines, the unit will not last as long - the problem is the trapped moisture that can damage the pump in the long run.
  - lxe 6y ago
    Yup. The pump is cheap on amazon and there's youtube videos a-plenty. The mini split AC's come with the refrigerant charge stored in it, so it's crucial to get it properly connected and vaccumed the first time.
phantom784 6y ago
I wish those holes for refrigerant lines in apartments were standard in the US. My apartment in the bay area has no AC and furthermore doesn't allow window units, so I'm stuck with inefficient portable units. I'd love to be able to just put some mini-splits in (and I'd probably still come out ahead over renting a place that comes with central AC).
esaym 6y ago
I find it odd that for heat he only mentions units external from the a/c. The 'cu-229cf' unit he bought seems to be capable of heatpump mode[0]. Nonetheless, I really hate mini-splits. They always have really thin intake air filters that really don't filter anything. Thus the insides of the indoor unit are always caked in layers of dust and mold. [0]: https://panasonic.jp/aircon/housing/products/19f.html https://panasonic.jp/aircon/housing/products/19f.html
bradlys 6y ago
Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly aren't any already existing. I've never seen or heard of that in the USA - particularly for apartments. Secondly - you're not hanging air conditioning units off the exterior walls of the apartment (rental or owned - you don't own/rent the exterior and ain't no residential building consenting to that shit). If you had a balcony, that's where it'd go, at best. Thirdly - where's your power coming from!? Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Maybe you have a third for an electric oven/stove. (Or an electric water heater) You'd have to run new power lines and that involves tearing up the walls. You could try to find 110V mini-split AC units but they're pretty uncommon in the USA (and much less powerful). As well, not having that AC on a dedicated breaker means you'll be giving up all other outlets on that breaker whenever the AC is on, which could be a lot of essential outlets in esoteric places. Great insight for someone who lives in Japan and someone who wants to see what it looks like to install AC in Japan. Put it back in the title!
- eropple 6y ago
  Most of your points are very good ones, but one thing jumped out at me - in my experience, 12000 BTU 110v mini-splits aren't that hard to source, nor crazy-expensive, in the US. Super worth it, too, if you can manage it.
- outworlder 6y ago
  > Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A. > HN is mostly a US based website This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of readers from all around the world. > Secondly - you're not hanging air conditioning units off the exterior walls of the apartment In the US. This is not particular to Japan. In fact, I'd argue that this is the most common air-conditioner setup worldwide, with building in many countries providing supports for either split systems or, more commonly, 'window' units.
dvcrn 6y ago
I did a much easier solution for my airconditioner (also in Tokyo so everything OP said applies): I bought a broadlink rm mini3 (IR emitter) for <$30 and hooked it up to homebridge using homebridge-broadlink-rm [0]. Then went ahead and recorded all signals my aircon remote could send and put it in an excel sheet for safe-keeping. Next, plugged the IR codes into the homebridge plugin, put the small device in line-of-sight with the aircon and tadaaa, my old ghetto aircon is now smart. For getting the temperature of the room, I use other devices (a netatmo weather station) and used their API to pull the current degrees into a textfile on the server that is getting fed into the airconditioner plugin. Bonuspoint: I use the same IR emitter to control my TV. I just have to make sure it's in a place that is in line-of-sight with both my TV and aircon, but given how small apartments here are - that was not a problem. The plugin has a functionality to frequently ping an IP for checking if something is turned on, so I use that to determine whether my TV is on/off. [0]: https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-broadlink-rm https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-broadlink-rm
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  You may not even need direct line of sight, as long as the TV can see what your remote is shining on. I know my remotes work from behind obstacles if I just aim them up at the ceiling. There are also inexpensive IR repeaters, intended to let you have your AV equipment stuffed in a closet and still be able to use all the remotes.
  - dvcrn 6y ago
    Oh nice! I know virtually nothing about IR so this is good information, thanks!

165 points by gcds 6y ago

I like that the schematics are included on the air conditioner. I have a few older appliances like this that have it, and it has helped me a few times replacing/diagnosing parts. I laughed a bit where he explains about "Humidity" and the temperature. I know Americans are fat and lazy and love our AC's, but if you spend any time on the east coast, it's a giant swamp. Life is pretty insufferable without an AC when you are sitting inside all day working - and newer buildings are not designed with passive cooling in mind. I'd like to thank my forerunners for sucking it up but I basically keep my 3 window unit AC's on from June-Sept in Philadelphia.

7thaccount 6y ago
In Louisiana and Arkansas (probably several other states), the temperature can get over 100 Farenheit with super high humidity. This leads to "swamp @$$" without copious amounts of AC. Being comfortable requires AC in the home, car, and at work. In highschool gym class we would just sit in the shade under the bleachers during the summer (too hot to do anything) and be dripping sweat everywhere back in class. It was miserable. It's just so miserable during the summer. The downside is that I'm only used to temperatures between 69 and 74 Farenheit, so I would be miserable in some place like Germany where they just live with the heat for a few weeks each year. I rented a house in Portland once without AC and it was during a heat wave. I'd douse myself in cold water, sit under the fan, and get very little sleep. A hurricane just hit Louisiana and the grid damage has been extensive (worst on record) so no power or AC. My mother's house is 85 degrees inside at night so she's sleeping in her office which is in a nearby town with power. I haven't seen the numbers yet, but typically a lot of elderly people die in these conditions without AC. The hurricane hit last Thursday I think and these are the current outages still in effect. Normally we would have power again in a couple of days in most non rural areas. The fact that it's been a full week and could be out for two more weeks is just unheard of. https://poweroutage.us/area/state/louisiana https://poweroutage.us/area/state/louisiana
- kijin 6y ago
  We love to romanticize the past, when people supposedly did fine without energy-wasting gadgets. The oft-forgotten truth is that people in the past just died more. And still do, in many parts of the world that are surprisingly close to us.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    And are/were substantially less productive. When Singapore developed, the first thing the PM did was install A/C in all government buildings. https://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew-air-conditioning https://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew...
  - s0rce 6y ago
    Heating buildings still takes more energy than air conditioning (usually much larger temperature differentials), people in the past used an enormous amount of energy on heating. They just consumed and generated the energy locally in the form of burning fuel, probably wood and coal instead of using an electric grid or natural gas. Also, I don't think A/C is any more of an energy wasting gadget than a heater. I can survive, moderately comfortable on a camping trip down to -10C, probably colder if I needed but I certainly wouldn't want my office/home to get that cold. Similarly, I don't want my house to be 30C with 85% RH.
- dpeck 6y ago
  As much as A/C is amazing, it’s the lack of moving air that makes me the most uncomfortable. I’ve always been surprised at how much of Europe seems to have no interest in fans, ceiling or otherwise.
  - vyrotek 6y ago
    In Italy many are worried about "colpo d'aria" (blast of air) which they blame for all sorts of health problems. They also dislike ice in their drinks and think eating/swallowing some will hurt you too. I'm not certain whether the current generation of youth believe it or not. Source: Mother is Italian.
gcds 6y ago
I was more targeting Europeans with that paragraph as I never had any issues with it in Europe (UK, Germany, Lithuania)
brudgers 6y ago
Pretty much every AC in the US has schematics somewhere behind a cover plate because field service by ordinarily trained technicians is a part of the equipment's life cycle. Basically, it's a safety issue (it might even be a UL requirement, I just didn't go that far down the google rabbit hole beyond the UL White Book https://legacy-uploads.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UL-White-Book.pdf https://legacy-uploads.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UL-...).
nine_k 6y ago
Actually, going to the office on a July morning in NYC feels very much like you're in e.g. Hong Kong; if you cross e.g. the Brooklyn bridge, you also see the typical haze of very high humidity over the water. Sometimes it's an actual fog at, say, 80-85F around. At least it's picturesque at times.

sergers 6y ago

Is this really specific to Japanese air conditioners? Or is this really about mini-split ac that are manufactured around the world under many companies. I don't see whats specifically Japanese outside of the person using Panasonic and is in Japan. The person could be in the USA with Mrcool mini split, it would be a similar article. Edit: title has been changed to remove mention of Japan, so my nitpick may no longer valid:)

agwa 6y ago
I've never seen an apartment building in the US with special pipes for running the refrigerant lines. It's just not feasible to install a mini split in the US if you're renting, but it appears Japan is totally set up for it.
- gcds 6y ago
  Impossible to live without AC in Japan. Also almost every move company can remove/install AC's pretty easily so it's kinda convient. Also if all rooms already have installed AC's then apartment rent price is much higher than similar without it so it's 50/50 what you want.
  - agwa 6y ago
    It's the same in many parts of the US, but unless the apartment comes with central AC, we're stuck with noisy and inefficient window AC units[1], or worse, portable AC units[2]. [1] https://www.mytrustedcontractor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Window-AC-Unit.jpg https://www.mytrustedcontractor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/... [2] https://www.lg.com/us/images/air-conditioners/md05186704/gallery/medium02.jpg https://www.lg.com/us/images/air-conditioners/md05186704/gal...
  - driverdan 6y ago
    > Impossible to live without AC in Japan Come on. People lived there for thousands of years before AC.
    - 6y ago

djanogo 6y ago

Where are the refrigerant lines, how did they run them from compressor to evaporator?, I thought the biggest issue with AC self install is filling the refrigerant and sealing those lines.

wintermutestwin 6y ago
There are some mini-splits that have a "quick connect" type of tether that don't require a professional to install. Here is one: https://www.forestair.ca/en/serie-mini-anglais https://www.forestair.ca/en/serie-mini-anglais
- andrewmunsell 6y ago
  I looked at that model (I can't install a traditional mini-split at my apartment) as a way of reducing the noise in my bedroom b/c of the AC, but the reviews are mostly bad, and many related to issues with the refrigerant after trying to disconnect and reconnect it over time...
sokoloff 6y ago
There are units that come with compressors pre-charged with an amount of refrigerant for the units and a lineset length of between X and Y. You can also buy linesets of different lengths that have all the ends pre-fabricated. After installing everything, you open two valves on the compressor unit to flood the lineset and evaporator with the refrigerant. It's not perfect [the lines are likely to have some water vapor in them], but it works. (The manufacturers also charge a premium for these "DIY" versions, so if you can find a way to do the traditional charging, you can save some money [or apply that towards an HVAC tech to come out, do a quick vac the lines/leak test/charge].
gcds 6y ago
Like are those wall color piping on the left side. The mini split ACs in japan come with precharged outdoor unit which has valves closed so the installers route lines from indoor to outdoor unit (using already packed with insulation lines). The connections are made using flare connectors. After all connected they use vacuum pump to evacuate air from lines and then opened up lines that's basically all in the installation.

mc32 6y ago

What I’d like to know is how they safely pipe gas to all apartments given the occurrence of earthquakes. Does the main valve auto shut off in the event of tremors above M3 of something?

gcds 6y ago
There is heavy measures regarding that topic. One is Gas Meter turns off all the gas when earthquake happens. Second I think all pipes are flexible so it wouldn't break from earthquakes

bemmu 6y ago

I also live in Japan, and recently bought 3 new air conditioners, but my instinct was the opposite: forego anything "smart". For tech like that I want it to be as dumb as possible so that there are less things that can go wrong with it. As a bonus the dumb ones are much cheaper as well.

gcds 6y ago
Those 2 AC's there almost the cheapest models you can buy for 6 tatami size and iirc they were 39k/ea. I needed to buy those modules extra to make it "smart"
- bemmu 6y ago
  Nice, your now smartened ones are actually cheaper than our dumb ones then. I was looking at CS-220DFR, also for 6 tatami, for which the best price on Kakaku is 49k (tax inclusive). But in the end we got three Daikin ones from our moving company, because their prices were similar (actually almost felt like we get the moving service as a bonus), and it seems very convenient to have one company do everything. Curious to see if they try to sneak in some extra fees at the last moment, because as it is I wonder if they're actually making a profit with us.
  - gcds 6y ago
    Exacatly my 30k install cost for 2 ACs were high already after all works they like so it will be 15k extra I am like WHUT but oh well it's japan next time going to rent tools for 5k and materials for like 10k max. My unit CS-229CFR with tax I think was 42k or similar and model to make it smart was +5k so it was still cheaper than cheapest smart model

roel_v 6y ago

Should've bought Daikin A/C's - their network bridges speak HTTP with a simple REST service. Highly recommend, it was very easy to integrate them into my home automation setup.

gcds 6y ago
I have already one Panasonic AC, so mixing them didn't feel right. Plus I have few extra Echonet Lite devices in home so it would be easier for my case.
- roel_v 6y ago
  Yeah then it makes sense
Nextgrid 6y ago
A lot of consumer-grade ACs use IR-based remotes which can easily be connected into whatever automation solution you have with something like a Broadlink bridge.
- gcds 6y ago
  Yes, but only downside of that is beep sounds and stateless, while Echonet Lite can provide you all internal properties like outdoor temp and etc and also current settings.
- roel_v 6y ago
  You can't query those for the current room temp, current settings etc. So then if you mix the OEM app & your home automation app, things get messed up. IR bridges are a hack in home automation, when buying new stuff avoid them.
  - squeaky-clean 6y ago
    Just my personal opinion, but the thermometer on an A/C unit is kind of worthless unless you sit within a foot of the unit. I prefer being able to read a sensor on the opposite side of the room, or even several sensors throughout the house, rather than one on the A/C unit. I don't use any OEM app at all, just my own. The OEM ones never do exactly what I want, so I have to hack something additional onto their features anyways. Home automation systems are really personal anyways though. I'm sure anyone here who's implemented their own has their own unique opinions about what's best ;)

rsync 6y ago

Having individual heating and cooling units (per unit gas heaters!) is stupendously inefficient. I travel in Asia fairly regularly so this isn't new to me, but even after all of these years I can't believe I continue to see shiny, brand new "high end" condo buildings in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Seoul, etc., with individual AC units hanging out the window. Contrast this with a condo in Minneapolis that I own wherein heat and AC are central in the building and individual units can set their temperature to whatever they like - all run with tremendously higher efficiency. It was explained to me once that there are Asian (specifically, Chinese) attitudes towards thrift that make it inconceivable/impossible to pay for AC that someone else might be using (or misusing). I don't know how true that is. What I do know is, my building in MPLS looks very nice without several hundred crappy boxes hanging out the windows.

Scoundreller 6y ago
Lately new condo builds in Toronto will have an in-unit heat pump that fails within 5 years (and May or may not sound like a spaceship), with a coolant line going to a central unit that’ll have a geothermal/auxiliary heating/cooling loop, that also tends to fail. All in all, a stupid system in practice. Only benefit of it all is that you don’t have to wait for the building to change between heating or cooling mode. At least we tend to still have central hot water and don’t meter water yet. Metering can make a lot of sense, but not when your account fee is $15-$20/month. Any reduction in use just means some rich dude goes on more jet vacations.
- bkovacev 6y ago
  Why would it fail within 5 years? Isn't the usual lifespan of those pumps 10-15 years?
gcds 6y ago
I think it's more efficient to heat/cool single room than all house when for e.g. you spend most of the day in office/living room and then go to bed. That way you only have one AC running but of course if you have big family then it maybe makes sense but still... Those mini split AC efficiency is much higher than I have seen in US ducted systems (follow few channels) because mini splits uses inverter technology for higher efficiencies.

boxed 6y ago

Just by luck before the pandemic hit I installed ground heat exchange with cooling for my house. This is so efficient the cooling is free. How do you ask is that even thermodynamically possible? Well all the heat from the cooling is used to heat the hole, which you get back in cheaper heating of the house from the same hole in winter. It's amazing!

lxe 6y ago

I just did a DIY install of a mini split AC, including running electrical and the refrigerant lines, having never done so before. There was a whole "hidden side of the iceberg" to learn besides just the controller parts of how it works. The unit cost was ~600 while the install would have been ~1500, so I was betting that if I mess up catastrophically I could replace the whole thing once or even twice.

zaroth 6y ago
Would love to read the write up!
OnACoffeeBreak 6y ago
Did you have to get your work inspected? Where I live in the United States, the electrical lines would have to be inspected for compliance with building code, and I am not sure about the HVAC lines.
- lxe 6y ago
  Electrical needs a permit, but AC is not a necessity apparently.
miahi 6y ago
Did you use a vacuum pump for the refrigerant lines? If air is still inside the lines, the unit will not last as long - the problem is the trapped moisture that can damage the pump in the long run.
- lxe 6y ago
  Yup. The pump is cheap on amazon and there's youtube videos a-plenty. The mini split AC's come with the refrigerant charge stored in it, so it's crucial to get it properly connected and vaccumed the first time.

phantom784 6y ago

I wish those holes for refrigerant lines in apartments were standard in the US. My apartment in the bay area has no AC and furthermore doesn't allow window units, so I'm stuck with inefficient portable units. I'd love to be able to just put some mini-splits in (and I'd probably still come out ahead over renting a place that comes with central AC).

esaym 6y ago

I find it odd that for heat he only mentions units external from the a/c. The 'cu-229cf' unit he bought seems to be capable of heatpump mode[0]. Nonetheless, I really hate mini-splits. They always have really thin intake air filters that really don't filter anything. Thus the insides of the indoor unit are always caked in layers of dust and mold. [0]: https://panasonic.jp/aircon/housing/products/19f.html https://panasonic.jp/aircon/housing/products/19f.html

bradlys 6y ago

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly aren't any already existing. I've never seen or heard of that in the USA - particularly for apartments. Secondly - you're not hanging air conditioning units off the exterior walls of the apartment (rental or owned - you don't own/rent the exterior and ain't no residential building consenting to that shit). If you had a balcony, that's where it'd go, at best. Thirdly - where's your power coming from!? Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Maybe you have a third for an electric oven/stove. (Or an electric water heater) You'd have to run new power lines and that involves tearing up the walls. You could try to find 110V mini-split AC units but they're pretty uncommon in the USA (and much less powerful). As well, not having that AC on a dedicated breaker means you'll be giving up all other outlets on that breaker whenever the AC is on, which could be a lot of essential outlets in esoteric places. Great insight for someone who lives in Japan and someone who wants to see what it looks like to install AC in Japan. Put it back in the title!

eropple 6y ago
Most of your points are very good ones, but one thing jumped out at me - in my experience, 12000 BTU 110v mini-splits aren't that hard to source, nor crazy-expensive, in the US. Super worth it, too, if you can manage it.
outworlder 6y ago
> Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A. > HN is mostly a US based website This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of readers from all around the world. > Secondly - you're not hanging air conditioning units off the exterior walls of the apartment In the US. This is not particular to Japan. In fact, I'd argue that this is the most common air-conditioner setup worldwide, with building in many countries providing supports for either split systems or, more commonly, 'window' units.

dvcrn 6y ago

I did a much easier solution for my airconditioner (also in Tokyo so everything OP said applies): I bought a broadlink rm mini3 (IR emitter) for <$30 and hooked it up to homebridge using homebridge-broadlink-rm [0]. Then went ahead and recorded all signals my aircon remote could send and put it in an excel sheet for safe-keeping. Next, plugged the IR codes into the homebridge plugin, put the small device in line-of-sight with the aircon and tadaaa, my old ghetto aircon is now smart. For getting the temperature of the room, I use other devices (a netatmo weather station) and used their API to pull the current degrees into a textfile on the server that is getting fed into the airconditioner plugin. Bonuspoint: I use the same IR emitter to control my TV. I just have to make sure it's in a place that is in line-of-sight with both my TV and aircon, but given how small apartments here are - that was not a problem. The plugin has a functionality to frequently ping an IP for checking if something is turned on, so I use that to determine whether my TV is on/off. [0]: https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-broadlink-rm https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-broadlink-rm

wlesieutre 6y ago
You may not even need direct line of sight, as long as the TV can see what your remote is shining on. I know my remotes work from behind obstacles if I just aim them up at the ceiling. There are also inexpensive IR repeaters, intended to let you have your AV equipment stuffed in a closet and still be able to use all the remotes.
- dvcrn 6y ago
  Oh nice! I know virtually nothing about IR so this is good information, thanks!