5 ms·

I speak with a computerized voice. Republicans used it to put words in my mouth

35 points by js2 6y ago

glaciar_like 6y ago
>"and the way in which America has cleaved into two separate information universes, with a conservative media ecosystem amplifying falsehoods that then take root." The "Leftist" media ecosystem is just as guilty of this. The number of falsehoods spread about Trump is staggering for those who keep track. This disinformation may even be more damaging because the anti Trump media (basically all major news and media) has a far greater reach than pro Trump media.
- krapp 6y ago
  There really needs to be a name given to this "the left is just as bad, but actually, they're even worse" meme, as common as it is.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Whataboutism?
    - not2b 6y ago
      Sort of; whataboutism is responding to every criticism with "what about [that thing the other side supposedly did]" as a way of never answering any criticism. But this is a little different: the reflexive "both sides do it" statement requires no thought, but some people think it makes them look enlightened and fair to always say it, with or without evidence.
    - krapp 6y ago
      It's like whataboutism with a twist, because simple dismissal through false equivalence is never enough, they always have to escalate at the end. The whataboutism is just the setup for the real punchline that "the left" is always the greater evil.
  - ykevinator 6y ago
    Right, protesting George floyds murder is worse than the murder. They live in a fox news normalized bubble.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  I hear stuff like this, but FoxNews is the most popular news network on cable, WSJ is a popular news paper, Murdoch's media empire is deep and entrenched. Surely there is some bias in the non-right media ecosystem, but it is nowhere near as crazy as the right wing, its like comparing criminal justice in the USA (not perfect) to China (not perfect on a very different scale).
  - erentz 6y ago
    You can also follow along with the top 10 most shared links on FB, which are frequently made up almost entirely of right wing sources. https://mobile.twitter.com/facebookstop10 https://mobile.twitter.com/facebookstop10
  - glaciar_like 6y ago
    Fox and WSJ reach pales in comparison to the reach of CNN/MSNBC/NYTimes/ABC/NBC and other traditional Democrat allied media. As for bias and being a source of reputable news, I would have agreed with you a few years ago but at this point Fox News and the WSJ are far more balanced and unbiased than the Democrat allied media. It's popular on the Left to say that Fox is a cesspool, but Fox has multiple anchors who are strongly anti-Trump and critical of him on a regular basis while the Democrat allied media is almost exclusively anti Trump and anti Republican. The depth of Democrat run media hatred of Trump and conservatives - ironic given the "hate has no home here" mantra - causes them to peddle truly egregious lies on a regular basis.
    - josho 6y ago
      > peddle truly egregious lies on a regular basis I know that CNN, NBC, etc are biased, but I've found that their bias generally skews to corporate or US government interests. As an example, look at the negative coverage that Bernie Sanders healthcare plans received (hint it was grossly negative because it threatened their advertising revenues). As a result, I generally avoid cnn and nbc. So, I'm very curious for recent examples of the egregious lies that you've seen recently from these networks. Would you have recent examples?
    - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
- myfirsthrowaway 6y ago
  > The number of falsehoods spread about Trump is Fun fact: there are interesting things in the world that aren't "about Trump." Most of the falsehoods of public concern fall into this category.
  - glaciar_like 6y ago
    Falsehoods concerning the most powerful person in Government and anyone who allies themselves with him are a significant issue of public interest. Sure there are other sorts of lies, but I don't disagree. Not sure what your point is.
    - myfirsthrowaway 6y ago
      You made this about Trump, maybe unwittingly. The OP was mostly about Scalise, if anyone. That was my point. It must be noted that falsehoods about this "most powerful person in Government" are highly asymmetrical with falsehoods from him. If Barack Obama had gone around the country in 2015 claiming that Donald Trump was not born in America, that would have been worse than Trump doing the same to him, because he would have been abusing the position of authority that our society affords him as this "most powerful person." But this isn't a battle between competing sets of falsehoods. This is a battle over the very idea of truth.
- iratewizard 6y ago
  >for those who keep track I've never gotten the impression that HN does. I see lots of posts about specific government/corporate overreach, but I rarely see political posts that don't read like an argument about quarterbacks on a baseball forum.
rbecker 6y ago
> That’s already disingenuous; protesters demanding an end to centuries of racial violence have largely been peaceful. Fiery, but mostly peaceful: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-ridiculed-for-fiery-but-mostly-peaceful-caption-with-video-of-burning-building-in-kenosha/ar-BB18qhIU https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-ridiculed-for-fi...
- Simulacra 6y ago
  I think it borders on insurrection. I've never seen insurrection, but if this doesn't come really close, I'm not sure what does.
  - mcphage 6y ago
    > if this doesn't come really close, I'm not sure what does. This, maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre
    - aklemm 6y ago
      This, precisely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_189...
      - Simulacra 6y ago
        I agree both! Thank you for posting those links.
        mcphage 6y ago
        You're welcome. As you saw, we've got a ways to go, and hopefully we're not going to get there.
henearkr 6y ago
Why has this been flagged?? Really, right-wingers stop at nothing to mute or distort what does not align with their opinions. Before being flagged, this was on HN front page. The agenda is clear here.
- totetsu 6y ago
  The low quality of the discussion I would guess..
- dang 6y ago
  This is so common as to have made the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html. It is bog standard HN moderation—I mean user moderation in this case, not moderator moderation. An inflammatory story makes it to the front page based on how sensational it is, then users flag it for the same reason. Live by the flames, die by the flames. We sometimes turn off users flags, especially when an article is interesting enough to support a substantive discussion, but that doesn't look like the case here.
  - henearkr 6y ago
    I agree this post is more about illegitimate video editing by right-wingers (lawmakers), rather than about purely technology. Still, there is a connection with the deep-fake era that we just entered, and how we will manage to mitigate the consequences of it... Also, @dang yes don't worry I know that the moderators are not the ones responsible for flagging or unflagging.
ykevinator 6y ago
This flagging is a joke. The ycombinator moderators are becoming as bad as the stack overflow ones. This is the new York times and the author is the expert on what he said. The power has gone to your head and is affecting your judgment

35 points by js2 6y ago

>"and the way in which America has cleaved into two separate information universes, with a conservative media ecosystem amplifying falsehoods that then take root." The "Leftist" media ecosystem is just as guilty of this. The number of falsehoods spread about Trump is staggering for those who keep track. This disinformation may even be more damaging because the anti Trump media (basically all major news and media) has a far greater reach than pro Trump media.

krapp 6y ago
There really needs to be a name given to this "the left is just as bad, but actually, they're even worse" meme, as common as it is.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Whataboutism?
  - not2b 6y ago
    Sort of; whataboutism is responding to every criticism with "what about [that thing the other side supposedly did]" as a way of never answering any criticism. But this is a little different: the reflexive "both sides do it" statement requires no thought, but some people think it makes them look enlightened and fair to always say it, with or without evidence.
  - krapp 6y ago
    It's like whataboutism with a twist, because simple dismissal through false equivalence is never enough, they always have to escalate at the end. The whataboutism is just the setup for the real punchline that "the left" is always the greater evil.
- ykevinator 6y ago
  Right, protesting George floyds murder is worse than the murder. They live in a fox news normalized bubble.
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
I hear stuff like this, but FoxNews is the most popular news network on cable, WSJ is a popular news paper, Murdoch's media empire is deep and entrenched. Surely there is some bias in the non-right media ecosystem, but it is nowhere near as crazy as the right wing, its like comparing criminal justice in the USA (not perfect) to China (not perfect on a very different scale).
- erentz 6y ago
  You can also follow along with the top 10 most shared links on FB, which are frequently made up almost entirely of right wing sources. https://mobile.twitter.com/facebookstop10 https://mobile.twitter.com/facebookstop10
- glaciar_like 6y ago
  Fox and WSJ reach pales in comparison to the reach of CNN/MSNBC/NYTimes/ABC/NBC and other traditional Democrat allied media. As for bias and being a source of reputable news, I would have agreed with you a few years ago but at this point Fox News and the WSJ are far more balanced and unbiased than the Democrat allied media. It's popular on the Left to say that Fox is a cesspool, but Fox has multiple anchors who are strongly anti-Trump and critical of him on a regular basis while the Democrat allied media is almost exclusively anti Trump and anti Republican. The depth of Democrat run media hatred of Trump and conservatives - ironic given the "hate has no home here" mantra - causes them to peddle truly egregious lies on a regular basis.
  - josho 6y ago
    > peddle truly egregious lies on a regular basis I know that CNN, NBC, etc are biased, but I've found that their bias generally skews to corporate or US government interests. As an example, look at the negative coverage that Bernie Sanders healthcare plans received (hint it was grossly negative because it threatened their advertising revenues). As a result, I generally avoid cnn and nbc. So, I'm very curious for recent examples of the egregious lies that you've seen recently from these networks. Would you have recent examples?
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
myfirsthrowaway 6y ago
> The number of falsehoods spread about Trump is Fun fact: there are interesting things in the world that aren't "about Trump." Most of the falsehoods of public concern fall into this category.
- glaciar_like 6y ago
  Falsehoods concerning the most powerful person in Government and anyone who allies themselves with him are a significant issue of public interest. Sure there are other sorts of lies, but I don't disagree. Not sure what your point is.
  - myfirsthrowaway 6y ago
    You made this about Trump, maybe unwittingly. The OP was mostly about Scalise, if anyone. That was my point. It must be noted that falsehoods about this "most powerful person in Government" are highly asymmetrical with falsehoods from him. If Barack Obama had gone around the country in 2015 claiming that Donald Trump was not born in America, that would have been worse than Trump doing the same to him, because he would have been abusing the position of authority that our society affords him as this "most powerful person." But this isn't a battle between competing sets of falsehoods. This is a battle over the very idea of truth.
iratewizard 6y ago
>for those who keep track I've never gotten the impression that HN does. I see lots of posts about specific government/corporate overreach, but I rarely see political posts that don't read like an argument about quarterbacks on a baseball forum.

rbecker 6y ago

> That’s already disingenuous; protesters demanding an end to centuries of racial violence have largely been peaceful. Fiery, but mostly peaceful: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-ridiculed-for-fiery-but-mostly-peaceful-caption-with-video-of-burning-building-in-kenosha/ar-BB18qhIU https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-ridiculed-for-fi...

Simulacra 6y ago
I think it borders on insurrection. I've never seen insurrection, but if this doesn't come really close, I'm not sure what does.
- mcphage 6y ago
  > if this doesn't come really close, I'm not sure what does. This, maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre
  - aklemm 6y ago
    This, precisely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_189...
    - Simulacra 6y ago
      I agree both! Thank you for posting those links.
      - mcphage 6y ago
        You're welcome. As you saw, we've got a ways to go, and hopefully we're not going to get there.

henearkr 6y ago

Why has this been flagged?? Really, right-wingers stop at nothing to mute or distort what does not align with their opinions. Before being flagged, this was on HN front page. The agenda is clear here.

totetsu 6y ago
The low quality of the discussion I would guess..
dang 6y ago
This is so common as to have made the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html. It is bog standard HN moderation—I mean user moderation in this case, not moderator moderation. An inflammatory story makes it to the front page based on how sensational it is, then users flag it for the same reason. Live by the flames, die by the flames. We sometimes turn off users flags, especially when an article is interesting enough to support a substantive discussion, but that doesn't look like the case here.
- henearkr 6y ago
  I agree this post is more about illegitimate video editing by right-wingers (lawmakers), rather than about purely technology. Still, there is a connection with the deep-fake era that we just entered, and how we will manage to mitigate the consequences of it... Also, @dang yes don't worry I know that the moderators are not the ones responsible for flagging or unflagging.

ykevinator 6y ago

This flagging is a joke. The ycombinator moderators are becoming as bad as the stack overflow ones. This is the new York times and the author is the expert on what he said. The power has gone to your head and is affecting your judgment