4 ms·

> If the average person is good and still commits "3 felonies a day", then it is easy to believe that LEO is giving people a reprieve from systemic injustice, o

> If the average person is good and still commits "3 felonies a day", then it is easy to believe that LEO is giving people a reprieve from systemic injustice, opposed to carrying out injustice. It’s the same people arguing for maximal support of the police (e.g. to beat the shit out of people for no reason, to confiscate innocent people’s cash and just keep it, to threaten people with made up charges and get them to sign false confessions, to fabricate evidence, to illegally stalk and harass anti-police-brutality activists, etc., and suffer no consequences) and arguing that friends of the police shouldn’t get punished for their infractions if they have the special card. (And also the same people arguing against both things.) More realistically, the little “courtesy cards” are a result of tribalism and corruption, and have nothing whatsoever to do with “systemic injustice”.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
I think you misunderstood my point and I don't see any contradiction. I am saying that the general public is not very offended by "courtesy cards" because they think the law is bad to begin with. If I don't think speeding and jaywalking should be a crime, I certainly don't care about people using cards to get off the hook for these crimes. I see this as a separate issue from police brutality, confiscation, ect.
- jacobolus 6y ago
  The people promoting these courtesy cards have absolutely no problem with speeding and jaywalking being crimes, and in fact are proponents of police discretion to e.g. constantly pull black people over and give them tickets for made up infractions just for the fun of it. It isn’t the “friends and family” of the police who want to end stop-and-frisk, decriminalize minor drug offenses, end cash bail, stop funding police departments from speed traps, .... You have diametrically misunderstood the point of the “3 felonies a day” book/argument, and you are shoehorning it in here to confidently promote your pet theory, without evidence.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    >The people promoting these courtesy cards have absolutely no problem with speeding and jaywalking being crimes, and in fact are proponents of police discretion I agree on both counts. They are proponents of police discretion to let them off for crimes they dont want to be charged for, and have no problem with it. >to e.g. constantly pull black people over and give them tickets for made up infractions just for the fun of it. It isn’t the “friends and family” of the police who want to end stop-and-frisk, decriminalize minor drug offenses, end cash bail, stop funding police departments from speed traps, ... I disagree and dont know where you are getting this from. The characters in the article clearly wanted to get off the hook themselves, but that doesnt mean they want to see minorities targeted and abused. I want to get off the hook when stopped for speeding, but that doesnt mean I want police to be shooting and terrorizing minorities. >You have diametrically misunderstood the point of the “3 felonies a day” book/argument, and you are shoehorning it in here to confidently promote your pet theory, without evidence. Again, I disagree. The point of the book is that everyone is a criminal and LEO can currently use their discretion to go after anyone they choose to. MY POINT, is that by making 100% of citizens criminals, we have eroded public support for the enforcement of the law. Those who get get caught for everyday crimes are considered unlucky, and those who get off the hook are celebrated. We should enforce the laws we have uniformly, and get rid of the ones we don't want. This is far superior to unwanted laws on the books and rarely enforcing them hoping we wont be affected. Infrequently enforced laws are terrible for a number of reasons, but a big one is that those without power and connections are the ones who are most likely to be affected.
- Talanes 6y ago
  Only exempting your friends isn't making a stand against unjust laws though, it's still just corruption.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    I totally agree, bit it is the kind of corruption that most people are ok with, which makes it particularly insidious. I'm not saying lawbreakers or corrupt police are freedom fighters, just that the root cause is garbage laws which neither the police or citizens believe in.
Natsu 6y ago
The "3 felonies a day" are mostly stuff like copyright infringement, not rapes, murders, etc. Though there are a few obscure laws like those protecting endangered species that might prevent you from, say, picking up a feather you found outside on the ground, this isn't something that's normally going to get a person in trouble, just the kind of thing that makes for shocking headlines.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  I don't think anyone is getting out of rape or murder with a courtesy card. The article talks about crimes like driving on the shoulder, expired registration, ect.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    I'm not sure if the courtesy cards will get you out of a copyright infringement either...
    - Natsu 6y ago
      I agree with both of you, I just wanted to keep in mind what sort of felonies the book is talking about.

s1artibartfast 6y ago

I think you misunderstood my point and I don't see any contradiction. I am saying that the general public is not very offended by "courtesy cards" because they think the law is bad to begin with. If I don't think speeding and jaywalking should be a crime, I certainly don't care about people using cards to get off the hook for these crimes. I see this as a separate issue from police brutality, confiscation, ect.

jacobolus 6y ago
The people promoting these courtesy cards have absolutely no problem with speeding and jaywalking being crimes, and in fact are proponents of police discretion to e.g. constantly pull black people over and give them tickets for made up infractions just for the fun of it. It isn’t the “friends and family” of the police who want to end stop-and-frisk, decriminalize minor drug offenses, end cash bail, stop funding police departments from speed traps, .... You have diametrically misunderstood the point of the “3 felonies a day” book/argument, and you are shoehorning it in here to confidently promote your pet theory, without evidence.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  >The people promoting these courtesy cards have absolutely no problem with speeding and jaywalking being crimes, and in fact are proponents of police discretion I agree on both counts. They are proponents of police discretion to let them off for crimes they dont want to be charged for, and have no problem with it. >to e.g. constantly pull black people over and give them tickets for made up infractions just for the fun of it. It isn’t the “friends and family” of the police who want to end stop-and-frisk, decriminalize minor drug offenses, end cash bail, stop funding police departments from speed traps, ... I disagree and dont know where you are getting this from. The characters in the article clearly wanted to get off the hook themselves, but that doesnt mean they want to see minorities targeted and abused. I want to get off the hook when stopped for speeding, but that doesnt mean I want police to be shooting and terrorizing minorities. >You have diametrically misunderstood the point of the “3 felonies a day” book/argument, and you are shoehorning it in here to confidently promote your pet theory, without evidence. Again, I disagree. The point of the book is that everyone is a criminal and LEO can currently use their discretion to go after anyone they choose to. MY POINT, is that by making 100% of citizens criminals, we have eroded public support for the enforcement of the law. Those who get get caught for everyday crimes are considered unlucky, and those who get off the hook are celebrated. We should enforce the laws we have uniformly, and get rid of the ones we don't want. This is far superior to unwanted laws on the books and rarely enforcing them hoping we wont be affected. Infrequently enforced laws are terrible for a number of reasons, but a big one is that those without power and connections are the ones who are most likely to be affected.
Talanes 6y ago
Only exempting your friends isn't making a stand against unjust laws though, it's still just corruption.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  I totally agree, bit it is the kind of corruption that most people are ok with, which makes it particularly insidious. I'm not saying lawbreakers or corrupt police are freedom fighters, just that the root cause is garbage laws which neither the police or citizens believe in.

Natsu 6y ago

The "3 felonies a day" are mostly stuff like copyright infringement, not rapes, murders, etc. Though there are a few obscure laws like those protecting endangered species that might prevent you from, say, picking up a feather you found outside on the ground, this isn't something that's normally going to get a person in trouble, just the kind of thing that makes for shocking headlines.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
I don't think anyone is getting out of rape or murder with a courtesy card. The article talks about crimes like driving on the shoulder, expired registration, ect.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  I'm not sure if the courtesy cards will get you out of a copyright infringement either...
  - Natsu 6y ago
    I agree with both of you, I just wanted to keep in mind what sort of felonies the book is talking about.