5 ms·

Question for history buffs: What are some instances where you'd say, "Gee, I'm glad Presidential pardon was available"?

segfaultbuserr 6y ago
The standard answer, of course: a war, especially after a national civil war, prosecuting everyone who participated in the enemy's side will be a disaster. Also whistleblowing cases.
- laughinghan 6y ago
  To the extremely limited and minimal extent that whistleblowers have been pardoned, good on that president/governor, but I think it is atrocious that whistleblower protection relies on pardon power—we need much, much stronger protections for whistleblowers, in my opinion. I think 90% of people are basically good but don't really want to stick their neck out of line—which means rules by themselves will never constrain the 5% of people that are malevolent. We need to empower the other 5% of people who are willing to stick their neck out to do the right thing. That includes institutionally empowering whistleblowers. Snowden committed a crime, sure, prosecute him—just give him a fair trial, for goodness' sake.
  - segfaultbuserr 6y ago
    > we need much, much stronger protections for whistleblowers, in my opinion. [...] That includes institutionally empowering whistleblowers. Agreed. Relying on pardoning is at best a stop-gap solution to a broken system.
jgust 6y ago
Throwing out a prediction: If the Biden/Harris ticket wins in 2020 and Trump is charged with anything, expect a pardon from the president. People will rage for a bit, get tired, run out of attention span, and move on to the next controversy.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Trump is going to get screwed anyway, even if Biden would step that low (he'd risk alienating all the progressives, I doubt he's dumb enough to do this) Trump would still have to answer to the New York DA.
- BeKindAndLearn 6y ago
  > expect a pardon from the president. Biden is on record saying this is right off the table. He will not pardon Trump.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    This sort of comment makes me wish I had a dog and I was drinking coffee or beer so I could say something like: "Ha! This comment just made me spurt my coffee all over the dog!" You mean to say a politician is on record having made a promise, and you believe them? Because that doesn't seem like an argument anyone would intentionally want to make.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-says-he-would-not-pardon-trump-n1207531 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-says-he...
- Alupis 6y ago
  What, specifically, would Trump require a pardon for? Being unlikable to some of the country?
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    Hatch Act violations, for starters.
    - laughinghan 6y ago
      The President and VP are specifically exempt from the Hatch Act: https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/HatchAct-Federal.aspx https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/HatchAct-Federal.aspx
johnnyo 6y ago
The general amnesty granted to Confederate soldiers at the end of the Civil War, though not without controversy, was an important step in the reunification of the nation.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
Obama commuting Chelsea Manning's sentence was good although I'd have preferred to see a full pardon.
mikeyouse 6y ago
Carter pardoning all of the draft dodgers from Vietnam was a decent use of the power. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/president-carter-pardons-draft-dodgers-jan-21-1977-346493 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/president-carter-p...
- jacobush 6y ago
  Carter looks better and better.
BeKindAndLearn 6y ago
Biden's promising to pardon all non-violent drug crimes, is he not? Though not historical, if it were to happen that could mark a turning point for our country. Though one could also use that same pardon power to avoid prosecution for domestic terrorists that support your agenda or crimes of election fraud. So I'm definitely on the side of revoking one person's power to override the entire judiciary for arbitrary reasons.
- eesmith 6y ago
  I can't find mention of him making that specific promise of pardoning all non-violent drug crimes. I did find https://joebiden.com/justice/ https://joebiden.com/justice/ saying: > Biden believes no one should be in jail because of cannabis use. As president, he will decriminalize cannabis use and automatically expunge prior convictions. And, he will support the legalization of cannabis for medical purposes, leave decisions regarding legalization for recreational use up to the states, and reschedule cannabis as a schedule II drug so researchers can study its positive and negative impacts. > Biden believes that no one should be imprisoned for the use of illegal drugs alone. Instead, Biden will require federal courts to divert these individuals to drug courts so they receive treatment to address their substance use disorder. Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement > A very real distinction exists between an expungement and a pardon. When an expungement is granted, the person whose record is expunged may, for most purposes, treat the event as if it never occurred. A pardon (also called "executive clemency") does not "erase" the event; rather, it constitutes forgiveness. In the United States, an expungement can be granted only by a judge, while a pardon can be granted only by the President of the United States for federal offenses I have no clue how Biden can promise to automatically expunge prior convictions if only judges can expunge a record.
  - toast0 6y ago
    > I have no clue how Biden can promise to automatically expunge prior convictions if only judges can expunge a record. Political promises aren't binding. So you can promise whatever. Politicians in general love to promise things that aren't even within the baliwick of the position they're running for. The one that always bugs me is California mayoral candidates promising to fix the schools, when schools aren't a function of city government at all.
refurb 6y ago
I dove into the list of people pardoned by Clinton and I would say most were people who had either served their sentence (or most of it) and had demonstrated true rehabilitation. The pardon wiped the slates clean for them. That seems like a good thing?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

The standard answer, of course: a war, especially after a national civil war, prosecuting everyone who participated in the enemy's side will be a disaster. Also whistleblowing cases.

laughinghan 6y ago
To the extremely limited and minimal extent that whistleblowers have been pardoned, good on that president/governor, but I think it is atrocious that whistleblower protection relies on pardon power—we need much, much stronger protections for whistleblowers, in my opinion. I think 90% of people are basically good but don't really want to stick their neck out of line—which means rules by themselves will never constrain the 5% of people that are malevolent. We need to empower the other 5% of people who are willing to stick their neck out to do the right thing. That includes institutionally empowering whistleblowers. Snowden committed a crime, sure, prosecute him—just give him a fair trial, for goodness' sake.
- segfaultbuserr 6y ago
  > we need much, much stronger protections for whistleblowers, in my opinion. [...] That includes institutionally empowering whistleblowers. Agreed. Relying on pardoning is at best a stop-gap solution to a broken system.

jgust 6y ago

Throwing out a prediction: If the Biden/Harris ticket wins in 2020 and Trump is charged with anything, expect a pardon from the president. People will rage for a bit, get tired, run out of attention span, and move on to the next controversy.

mschuster91 6y ago
Trump is going to get screwed anyway, even if Biden would step that low (he'd risk alienating all the progressives, I doubt he's dumb enough to do this) Trump would still have to answer to the New York DA.
BeKindAndLearn 6y ago
> expect a pardon from the president. Biden is on record saying this is right off the table. He will not pardon Trump.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  This sort of comment makes me wish I had a dog and I was drinking coffee or beer so I could say something like: "Ha! This comment just made me spurt my coffee all over the dog!" You mean to say a politician is on record having made a promise, and you believe them? Because that doesn't seem like an argument anyone would intentionally want to make.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-says-he-would-not-pardon-trump-n1207531 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-says-he...
Alupis 6y ago
What, specifically, would Trump require a pardon for? Being unlikable to some of the country?
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Hatch Act violations, for starters.
  - laughinghan 6y ago
    The President and VP are specifically exempt from the Hatch Act: https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/HatchAct-Federal.aspx https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/HatchAct-Federal.aspx

johnnyo 6y ago

The general amnesty granted to Confederate soldiers at the end of the Civil War, though not without controversy, was an important step in the reunification of the nation.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

Obama commuting Chelsea Manning's sentence was good although I'd have preferred to see a full pardon.

mikeyouse 6y ago

Carter pardoning all of the draft dodgers from Vietnam was a decent use of the power. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/president-carter-pardons-draft-dodgers-jan-21-1977-346493 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/president-carter-p...

jacobush 6y ago
Carter looks better and better.

BeKindAndLearn 6y ago

Biden's promising to pardon all non-violent drug crimes, is he not? Though not historical, if it were to happen that could mark a turning point for our country. Though one could also use that same pardon power to avoid prosecution for domestic terrorists that support your agenda or crimes of election fraud. So I'm definitely on the side of revoking one person's power to override the entire judiciary for arbitrary reasons.

eesmith 6y ago
I can't find mention of him making that specific promise of pardoning all non-violent drug crimes. I did find https://joebiden.com/justice/ https://joebiden.com/justice/ saying: > Biden believes no one should be in jail because of cannabis use. As president, he will decriminalize cannabis use and automatically expunge prior convictions. And, he will support the legalization of cannabis for medical purposes, leave decisions regarding legalization for recreational use up to the states, and reschedule cannabis as a schedule II drug so researchers can study its positive and negative impacts. > Biden believes that no one should be imprisoned for the use of illegal drugs alone. Instead, Biden will require federal courts to divert these individuals to drug courts so they receive treatment to address their substance use disorder. Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement > A very real distinction exists between an expungement and a pardon. When an expungement is granted, the person whose record is expunged may, for most purposes, treat the event as if it never occurred. A pardon (also called "executive clemency") does not "erase" the event; rather, it constitutes forgiveness. In the United States, an expungement can be granted only by a judge, while a pardon can be granted only by the President of the United States for federal offenses I have no clue how Biden can promise to automatically expunge prior convictions if only judges can expunge a record.
- toast0 6y ago
  > I have no clue how Biden can promise to automatically expunge prior convictions if only judges can expunge a record. Political promises aren't binding. So you can promise whatever. Politicians in general love to promise things that aren't even within the baliwick of the position they're running for. The one that always bugs me is California mayoral candidates promising to fix the schools, when schools aren't a function of city government at all.

refurb 6y ago

I dove into the list of people pardoned by Clinton and I would say most were people who had either served their sentence (or most of it) and had demonstrated true rehabilitation. The pardon wiped the slates clean for them. That seems like a good thing?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]