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Trusting your home address and personal info to not only random poorly trained TSA agents but also now storing that info in yet another 3rd party database that

Trusting your home address and personal info to not only random poorly trained TSA agents but also now storing that info in yet another 3rd party database that will probably be hacked. It increases the likelihood of your info getting leaked.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Ok and does that measurably reduce safety? You can get practically everyone's details from marketing companies - the direct increased risk from this seems like it's zero to negligible. The overall risk seems like it's probably falling on the beneficial side as discouraging people with bad intentions from flying likely has a negligibly positive effect on risk.
- sneak 6y ago
  > Ok and does that measurably reduce safety? You can get practically everyone's details from marketing companies - the direct increased risk from this seems like it's zero to negligible. Not everybody. Lots of us go to great lengths to preserve our privacy when engaging in commercial transactions. You can pay cash, use a cover name, only have things shipped to your postbox/office, or only engage with vendors who have adequate security and privacy practices. You can't fly without engaging with the TSA. They're the only game in town. Additionally, many people in society are especially vulnerable, such as labor or political organizers, investigative journalists, and public officials. Having their home addresses leaked, or their family members' home addresses leaked, poses a direct threat to life and safety. You can opt out of data brokers, or spyware smartphone apps, or use a cover name when you order a delivery sandwich or pizza to the building you sleep in. You can't use a cover name or opt out of the TSA.
  - redler 6y ago
    Likewise, consider that these data will be at the complete and unsupervised disposal of any future politically vindictive "acting" (as has become the fashion) director of homeland security.
  - alasdair_ 6y ago
    > You can't fly without engaging with the TSA. They're the only game in town. If you have enough money you simply fly private. His is one of many reasons why the TSA continues to have problems - senior politicians and wealthy people barely need to deal with them. In some ways it’s like HOV lanes in DC that have rates up to $80 for a single ride. The people most likely to be angered by traffic and to actually have the power to force changes to be made get to skip the traffic. See also any legal issue that can be solved by paying for a good lawyer and a high extra price for “expedited” government service (anything from immigration to getting a passport).
- godelski 6y ago
  There's good evidence that more people choose to drive rather than deal with TSA and the rising costs (due to 'security') and as a result cause more deaths (because driving is less safe than flying). So yes https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/excess_automobi.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/excess_automo...
  - ghaff 6y ago
    That blog post is from 2013 and cites a study from about 10 years earlier. Pre-COVID-19, flying was booming. So, no, there isn't good evidence. (Of course, people are driving at the moment.)
    - godelski 6y ago
      The topic is more generalized to TSA as a whole and not exclusive to covid TSA. The argument in the article I linked is about how growing security measures is pushing people away from air travel by both privacy and cost to support the new security theater. A continuation of such growth does not dismiss the claims, in fact it reinforces them.
eezurr 6y ago
As a counter point I think you put yourself in more danger when you hand over your ID at every bar, liquor store, hotel [...] you go to. These people are local, build a relationship with you, aren't accountable like a government worker/contractor, and can easily get to your home.
- tpxl 6y ago
  Doing one of those things is safer than doing both of those things.
vkou 6y ago
I hate the TSA as much as the next person, but I have to point this out: If you live in America, the likelyhood of your personal info getting leaked in the past 5 years has reached 100%. Adding it to yet another dataset does not meaningfully move the needle anymore. Assume your personal information has already been pwned, and carry on with your life.
- xeromal 6y ago
  That's an absolutely pointless argument.
- IncRnd 6y ago
  If you honestly believe that, why not post your information? The reason is that you probably don't want to do that, and you shouldn't be required to do it. Your private life is nobody's business but your own.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago

Ok and does that measurably reduce safety? You can get practically everyone's details from marketing companies - the direct increased risk from this seems like it's zero to negligible. The overall risk seems like it's probably falling on the beneficial side as discouraging people with bad intentions from flying likely has a negligibly positive effect on risk.

sneak 6y ago
> Ok and does that measurably reduce safety? You can get practically everyone's details from marketing companies - the direct increased risk from this seems like it's zero to negligible. Not everybody. Lots of us go to great lengths to preserve our privacy when engaging in commercial transactions. You can pay cash, use a cover name, only have things shipped to your postbox/office, or only engage with vendors who have adequate security and privacy practices. You can't fly without engaging with the TSA. They're the only game in town. Additionally, many people in society are especially vulnerable, such as labor or political organizers, investigative journalists, and public officials. Having their home addresses leaked, or their family members' home addresses leaked, poses a direct threat to life and safety. You can opt out of data brokers, or spyware smartphone apps, or use a cover name when you order a delivery sandwich or pizza to the building you sleep in. You can't use a cover name or opt out of the TSA.
- redler 6y ago
  Likewise, consider that these data will be at the complete and unsupervised disposal of any future politically vindictive "acting" (as has become the fashion) director of homeland security.
- alasdair_ 6y ago
  > You can't fly without engaging with the TSA. They're the only game in town. If you have enough money you simply fly private. His is one of many reasons why the TSA continues to have problems - senior politicians and wealthy people barely need to deal with them. In some ways it’s like HOV lanes in DC that have rates up to $80 for a single ride. The people most likely to be angered by traffic and to actually have the power to force changes to be made get to skip the traffic. See also any legal issue that can be solved by paying for a good lawyer and a high extra price for “expedited” government service (anything from immigration to getting a passport).
godelski 6y ago
There's good evidence that more people choose to drive rather than deal with TSA and the rising costs (due to 'security') and as a result cause more deaths (because driving is less safe than flying). So yes https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/excess_automobi.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/excess_automo...
- ghaff 6y ago
  That blog post is from 2013 and cites a study from about 10 years earlier. Pre-COVID-19, flying was booming. So, no, there isn't good evidence. (Of course, people are driving at the moment.)
  - godelski 6y ago
    The topic is more generalized to TSA as a whole and not exclusive to covid TSA. The argument in the article I linked is about how growing security measures is pushing people away from air travel by both privacy and cost to support the new security theater. A continuation of such growth does not dismiss the claims, in fact it reinforces them.

eezurr 6y ago

As a counter point I think you put yourself in more danger when you hand over your ID at every bar, liquor store, hotel [...] you go to. These people are local, build a relationship with you, aren't accountable like a government worker/contractor, and can easily get to your home.

tpxl 6y ago
Doing one of those things is safer than doing both of those things.

vkou 6y ago

I hate the TSA as much as the next person, but I have to point this out: If you live in America, the likelyhood of your personal info getting leaked in the past 5 years has reached 100%. Adding it to yet another dataset does not meaningfully move the needle anymore. Assume your personal information has already been pwned, and carry on with your life.

xeromal 6y ago
That's an absolutely pointless argument.
IncRnd 6y ago
If you honestly believe that, why not post your information? The reason is that you probably don't want to do that, and you shouldn't be required to do it. Your private life is nobody's business but your own.