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Like all other internet bans in India I doubt this one will have any teeth. Everyone has a "Free" VPN app that they use to bypass these restrictions. Most peop

Like all other internet bans in India I doubt this one will have any teeth. Everyone has a "Free" VPN app that they use to bypass these restrictions. Most people own Android phones where they can sideload apps downloaded from some third party APK website (of questionable trustworthiness) iPhones have negligible penetration in India so are not even a part of the equation.

castis 6y ago
It seems reasonable to me that most people would not go to such lengths as sideloading apps or employing a VPN to route around these issues.
- ffpip 6y ago
  You severely underestimate how Indian teens are addicted to PUBG. Kids have spent lakhs of their parents rupees on it. [1] Some have even dies due to addiction. [2] [1]- https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/aug/17/pubg-controls-the-mind-2184257.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/aug/17/pu... [2] - https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/16-year-old-addicted-to-pubg-lost-his-life-after-skipping-food-water-for-days/ https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/16-year-old-addicted-to-pubg... There are many more. I just gave a single example.
  - d3nj4l 6y ago
    For clarification, 1 lakh = 100 thousand. INR 100k ~= $1400, which is about the median annual household income in India.
  - castis 6y ago
    I dont think I do though. Video game-addicted teens dont constitute 'most' of the Indian population.
    - d3nj4l 6y ago
      Video game addicted young adults with a vendetta against the government could turn out and vote against it, though I wouldn't hold my breath for that.
    - ffpip 6y ago
      Yes. I know because I was one of the millions of addicted kids, and all my friends were too.
  - searchableguy 6y ago
    China is taking digital addiction very seriously. They have taken strong measures. Some of them are well positioned and others are pure authoritarian. I expect India to follow soon though I have little hope for good long term policies. I expect them to be reactionary and punitive. People fear education here. I think about why and can only come with few theories. 0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503025/Chinas-digital-detox-camp-locked-children-guarded-cells-10-days.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503025/Chinas-digi... 1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3016183/inside-chinas-battle-keep-internet-addiction-under-check https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3016183/inside-chin...
fma 6y ago
You can say the same about Facebook and Google in China...You can sideload or use VPN. Some do. Most don't. Blocking FB & Google ecosystems allowed for China to grow their own competitors.
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  China has invested into its Great Firewall, which is far, far better than the techniques most ISPs here use to block websites. Besides, VPNs aren't banned, and the government isn't cracking down on generic VPNs. It's far easier to get a VPN in India to browse TikTok than it is to get a VPN in China to browse Facebook. You can even see it in the list of apps that were banned - there's two literally called "VPN for TikTok".
- balola 6y ago
  The thing is, there's hardly anything outside GFW that an average Chinese would want, local alternatives often are feature rich and considered "more advanced", outside news are dismissed as "obscenely fake and hostile". In the few Chinese that do pay for VPNs, most women use it to access Instagram for celebrities, most men for porn on Twitter.
  - fma 6y ago
    You're talking about the ecosystem in 2020, after the market is mature. Facebook was blocked by China in 2009. WeChat wasn't even started till 2011.
    - oefrha 6y ago
      Facebook Messenger also "wasn't even started till 2011". Before 2011 China had very mature local messaging (QQ, from the company behind WeChat) and less mature but burgeoning social networking (loads of them I believe, including part of QQ). Cherry-picking the date of one next-gen product that later took over is meaningless.
      - fma 6y ago
OzzyB 6y ago
Always wondered about these Free VPNs, how are they free? Are they actually free? Is that why you used "Free" in quotes? Must be a valid model behind it since the bandwith must be insane.
- m-p-3 6y ago
  They're free in term of money, but the cost is that the provider can sell your privacy to the highest bidder.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    So the same model as Google and Facebook?
    - sct202 6y ago
      Google and Facebook sell access to you on thru their ads. The advertiser doesn't get your information. The free VPNs are probably selling your information, browsing history, and anything else they can get on you.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      Facebook used to run one, Onavo: https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/05/facebooks-onavo-spying-app-shaped-monumental-decis.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/05/facebooks-onavo-sp...
peacefulhat 6y ago
You don’t want to be on a vpn for a competitive game if they’re blocking the fortnite server
ffpip 6y ago
TikTok doesnt work at all now. The company accepted the ban so they themselves are stopping the app from working.
- rohan1024 6y ago
  But it's notifications still get through via google play services. No idea why they would allow that.
mayankkaizen 6y ago
This is typical HN mentality to assume that other people are comparatively well versed in technical aspects. 99% indians (may be a little exaggerated figure) don't have any clue about VPN. Most don't even know how to side-install any app. So government actions do have some significance.
- pranit10 6y ago
  Its safe to assume anyone who plays PubG is computer literate enough to use VPN.
- mrath 6y ago
  I don’t think that 99% is correct. I know my brother who never used a computer knows how to share apps without internet and play store. They install apps using shareit like apps.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  I don't think so. I knew an Iranian women who told me in Iran everyone knew how to setup and configure a VPN due to the restrictions they have in place. It's that way western countries because we don't have such restrictions.
  - HaloZero 6y ago
    I wonder how much of that is a networking effect. If you met an Iranian woman outside of Iran, the chances they had the money to travel or have a connected family is higher. I think the government nets capture lots of people. Anyone who is trying to avoid it can but those groups tend to be middle class or higher. So maybe instead of 99% it's like 51%?
    - RandoHolmes 6y ago
      She was probably one of the most driven women I've ever seen. I had immense respect for her. She hadn't been back to see her family for 10 years for fear of not being able to come back due to not having her green card yet. She finally got it and we were all super happy for her. What you're saying might be true, I never got a good sense of how rich or poor her family was, but she was always studying, always trying to be better. It was a very sharp contrast to most/all Americans I know. She came to this country through drive rather than money, of that I have no doubt.
searchableguy 6y ago
Good luck with pubg servers banning you especially with free vpns which I presume most indians will use. They may also force pubg to include a unique device ban. You can't change device ID without rooting your device. See: https://developer.android.com/training/articles/user-data-ids https://developer.android.com/training/articles/user-data-id...
kumarvvr 6y ago
The ones who will use a VPN to access stuff, are generally of above average IQ, who are less susceptible to propaganda. Not entirely immune, but less susceptible. Leaving that aside, bans have a very real impact, even if there are other channels to access banned content. You cannot advertise banned content, you cannot distribute it en-masse, you cannot hold competitions, etc, etc. All these have massive effects on the marketing and sales channels. Sure, some %age of people will use it from VPNs and stuff, but those are few and far between. In case of online games, people may simply move to other games like Fortnite or what not. I know tech-savvy software developers of mine, who hardly side load apps. Why? Side loading apps when a secure and curated app store is available is generally avoided due to security and other issues. In India, with every smartphone having digital payment apps, and the prevalence of scams and frauds, most middle class, urban teens and adults will generally avoid side loading apps. You can safely assume that many in rural areas, are not even aware of side loading stuff.

castis 6y ago

It seems reasonable to me that most people would not go to such lengths as sideloading apps or employing a VPN to route around these issues.

ffpip 6y ago
You severely underestimate how Indian teens are addicted to PUBG. Kids have spent lakhs of their parents rupees on it. [1] Some have even dies due to addiction. [2] [1]- https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/aug/17/pubg-controls-the-mind-2184257.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/aug/17/pu... [2] - https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/16-year-old-addicted-to-pubg-lost-his-life-after-skipping-food-water-for-days/ https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/16-year-old-addicted-to-pubg... There are many more. I just gave a single example.
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  For clarification, 1 lakh = 100 thousand. INR 100k ~= $1400, which is about the median annual household income in India.
- castis 6y ago
  I dont think I do though. Video game-addicted teens dont constitute 'most' of the Indian population.
  - d3nj4l 6y ago
    Video game addicted young adults with a vendetta against the government could turn out and vote against it, though I wouldn't hold my breath for that.
  - ffpip 6y ago
    Yes. I know because I was one of the millions of addicted kids, and all my friends were too.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  China is taking digital addiction very seriously. They have taken strong measures. Some of them are well positioned and others are pure authoritarian. I expect India to follow soon though I have little hope for good long term policies. I expect them to be reactionary and punitive. People fear education here. I think about why and can only come with few theories. 0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503025/Chinas-digital-detox-camp-locked-children-guarded-cells-10-days.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503025/Chinas-digi... 1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3016183/inside-chinas-battle-keep-internet-addiction-under-check https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3016183/inside-chin...

fma 6y ago

You can say the same about Facebook and Google in China...You can sideload or use VPN. Some do. Most don't. Blocking FB & Google ecosystems allowed for China to grow their own competitors.

d3nj4l 6y ago
China has invested into its Great Firewall, which is far, far better than the techniques most ISPs here use to block websites. Besides, VPNs aren't banned, and the government isn't cracking down on generic VPNs. It's far easier to get a VPN in India to browse TikTok than it is to get a VPN in China to browse Facebook. You can even see it in the list of apps that were banned - there's two literally called "VPN for TikTok".
balola 6y ago
The thing is, there's hardly anything outside GFW that an average Chinese would want, local alternatives often are feature rich and considered "more advanced", outside news are dismissed as "obscenely fake and hostile". In the few Chinese that do pay for VPNs, most women use it to access Instagram for celebrities, most men for porn on Twitter.
- fma 6y ago
  You're talking about the ecosystem in 2020, after the market is mature. Facebook was blocked by China in 2009. WeChat wasn't even started till 2011.
  - oefrha 6y ago
    Facebook Messenger also "wasn't even started till 2011". Before 2011 China had very mature local messaging (QQ, from the company behind WeChat) and less mature but burgeoning social networking (loads of them I believe, including part of QQ). Cherry-picking the date of one next-gen product that later took over is meaningless.
    - fma 6y ago

OzzyB 6y ago

Always wondered about these Free VPNs, how are they free? Are they actually free? Is that why you used "Free" in quotes? Must be a valid model behind it since the bandwith must be insane.

m-p-3 6y ago
They're free in term of money, but the cost is that the provider can sell your privacy to the highest bidder.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  So the same model as Google and Facebook?
  - sct202 6y ago
    Google and Facebook sell access to you on thru their ads. The advertiser doesn't get your information. The free VPNs are probably selling your information, browsing history, and anything else they can get on you.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    Facebook used to run one, Onavo: https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/05/facebooks-onavo-spying-app-shaped-monumental-decis.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/05/facebooks-onavo-sp...

peacefulhat 6y ago

You don’t want to be on a vpn for a competitive game if they’re blocking the fortnite server

ffpip 6y ago

TikTok doesnt work at all now. The company accepted the ban so they themselves are stopping the app from working.

rohan1024 6y ago
But it's notifications still get through via google play services. No idea why they would allow that.

mayankkaizen 6y ago

This is typical HN mentality to assume that other people are comparatively well versed in technical aspects. 99% indians (may be a little exaggerated figure) don't have any clue about VPN. Most don't even know how to side-install any app. So government actions do have some significance.

pranit10 6y ago
Its safe to assume anyone who plays PubG is computer literate enough to use VPN.
mrath 6y ago
I don’t think that 99% is correct. I know my brother who never used a computer knows how to share apps without internet and play store. They install apps using shareit like apps.
RandoHolmes 6y ago
I don't think so. I knew an Iranian women who told me in Iran everyone knew how to setup and configure a VPN due to the restrictions they have in place. It's that way western countries because we don't have such restrictions.
- HaloZero 6y ago
  I wonder how much of that is a networking effect. If you met an Iranian woman outside of Iran, the chances they had the money to travel or have a connected family is higher. I think the government nets capture lots of people. Anyone who is trying to avoid it can but those groups tend to be middle class or higher. So maybe instead of 99% it's like 51%?
  - RandoHolmes 6y ago
    She was probably one of the most driven women I've ever seen. I had immense respect for her. She hadn't been back to see her family for 10 years for fear of not being able to come back due to not having her green card yet. She finally got it and we were all super happy for her. What you're saying might be true, I never got a good sense of how rich or poor her family was, but she was always studying, always trying to be better. It was a very sharp contrast to most/all Americans I know. She came to this country through drive rather than money, of that I have no doubt.

searchableguy 6y ago

Good luck with pubg servers banning you especially with free vpns which I presume most indians will use. They may also force pubg to include a unique device ban. You can't change device ID without rooting your device. See: https://developer.android.com/training/articles/user-data-ids https://developer.android.com/training/articles/user-data-id...

kumarvvr 6y ago

The ones who will use a VPN to access stuff, are generally of above average IQ, who are less susceptible to propaganda. Not entirely immune, but less susceptible. Leaving that aside, bans have a very real impact, even if there are other channels to access banned content. You cannot advertise banned content, you cannot distribute it en-masse, you cannot hold competitions, etc, etc. All these have massive effects on the marketing and sales channels. Sure, some %age of people will use it from VPNs and stuff, but those are few and far between. In case of online games, people may simply move to other games like Fortnite or what not. I know tech-savvy software developers of mine, who hardly side load apps. Why? Side loading apps when a secure and curated app store is available is generally avoided due to security and other issues. In India, with every smartphone having digital payment apps, and the prevalence of scams and frauds, most middle class, urban teens and adults will generally avoid side loading apps. You can safely assume that many in rural areas, are not even aware of side loading stuff.