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> end up being net negatives for ... the models I'm not understanding what you mean there? Aren't they making a lot of money for only a little work?

dvt 6y ago
> I'm not understanding what you mean there? Aren't they making a lot of money for only a little work? Some are, but at the cost of privacy, having weirdos stalk you online, potential future job prospects, etc. Not to mention the time and money that goes into actually taking photos, curating, responding to messages, etc. It's not as easy as it might seem.
- delecti 6y ago
  The time and money that goes into it is what makes it a job. That's a bit different from the privacy/weirdos/career effects.
- luckylion 6y ago
  It's not as easy as it seems, I'm sure. But it's extremely compensated well for what is essentially unskilled labor. Sure, it has some disadvantages, but I'm fairly certain that for most people the advantages far outweigh them.
  - notyourday 6y ago
    > It's not as easy as it seems, I'm sure. But it's extremely compensated well for what is essentially unskilled labor. This is a fundamental mistake that people make when discussing this. As in any content market the money is in the head. Both tail and the long tail could do 2x the work of the head and receive nearly no compensation.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      Are they staying in the market? If you're doing it for 50 hours a week for barely any compensation, isn't it more of a hobby. I'm not saying that every cam girl is getting mega rich from it, but they're making good money in relation to the effort required. There's not zero effort but it's also not something you need to go to uni for three years and then spend time as a junior cam girl getting experience. Which is fine, btw, I don't mind it, but I always find it weird when the image is presented blurry as in "we can't really tell whether it's a professional<=>customer relationships or just two people interacting socially", because I think we generally can tell very well.
      - KSteffensen 6y ago
        > If you're doing it for 50 hours a week for barely any compensation, isn't it more of a hobby. By that argument cleaning hotel rooms is a hobby.
        luckylion 6y ago
        If you have alternatives to cleaning hotel rooms, it would be. There aren't any for most that work there though. If they didn't make money on Only Fans, normal jobs are still available, and if you make next to nothing, even cleaning hotel rooms might be a step up. My impression is that many of those that make very little (on the platform, in relation to the top stars) make enough in relation to their time input that it beats cleaning hotel rooms or waitressing.
      - notyourday 6y ago
        > Are they staying in the market? If you're doing it for 50 hours a week for barely any compensation, isn't it more of a hobby. Because they read that it is easy money. It is repeated time and time again by the cam work is work crowd.
  - stouset 6y ago
    It's not as unskilled as you might think it is. Professionals here put in a lot of thought and effort to their promoting their specific niche, brand, etc. Many of them have a solid understanding of lighting and photography and employ that knowledge to improve their work. This is about as insulting as saying photography is "unskilled labor". Sure, anyone can take a photograph. But the people who are at the top are generally there because of hard work and business smarts.
    - CapricornNoble 6y ago
      Can you articulate how this particular Twitch streamer is employing deep knowledge and thought to improve her work? To the tune of $250k+ compensation? Can't anyone hire someone with experience in theater/film lighting to setup their stream studio with a day's labor? https://twitter.com/gundamishere/status/1106672499796951040?lang=en https://twitter.com/gundamishere/status/1106672499796951040?...
      - chillwaves 6y ago
        So are you saying just because she is pretty she can pull in those $$? Because there are a lot of pretty women in the world and I would say 99% aren't 1% as successful. There is definitely skill and knowledge involved.
        CapricornNoble 6y ago
        >>Because there are a lot of pretty women in the world and I would say 99% aren't 1% as successful. 99% of the pretty women aren't leveraging a tech platform to directly extract resources from lonely dudes across the entire planet. It's more due to ignorance of their options for monetizing their sexuality than it is well-developed and unique skillsets. I've actually been debating starting a CamStudio with a friend of mine, as I've met more than a few cute women who don't grasp the concept of "You can make more money by just sitting your butt in front of a computer monitor all day in makeup and a low-cut top". Anyone who has worked in a cabaret, a "girls bar/snack bar", or a strip club understands the basics of talking to the Johns, and appearance-enhancing makeup and outfits. Camming/streaming just combines their social skills with IT/technical support to expand their potential client base. They won't become Belle Delphine overnight but there's a lot of room for low-effort revenue growth with a bit of management and guidance, IMO.
  - chii 6y ago
    > But it's extremely compensated well for what is essentially unskilled labor. skill doesn't determine compensation - supply and demand does. If an action is unskilled, but has high demand and low supply, then said action will fetch a much higher price than another action which requires much skill, but has high supply. And being on onlyfans is not unskilled - you need skill. Natural born skill is still considered a skill, and you will also need to be photogenic (or video-genic?). Being entertaining is also a skill, tho not always required.
- httpsterio 6y ago
  That's the trade off for being any type of celebrity. I don't think selling lewd photos of oneself is something I'd judge a person about and for all I care, it should be normalized even. I mean, thousands of people have their nudes leaked by people whom they trust and accounts get hacked (The Fappening for example). I don't think ha ind your nudes out in the wild should ruin you in any way in this day and age. And about the privacy, I think online models like Belle Delphine and the likes still have a far greater possibility to appear anonymously outdoors than Hollywood actresses or even state level politicians. In reality, they're not getting paid for supplying photos, appearing in movies or singing into a microphone, they're getting paid for letting the common folk have a voyeuristic view into their private life.
  - CapricornNoble 6y ago
    >>>they're getting paid for letting the common folk have a voyeuristic view into their private life. Many of them aren't doing that honestly: that's why Twitch streamers such as Pokimane and Amouranth have words like "boyfriend" and "husband" banned from their chats. Every time their subscribers find out there's actually another man fucking them in real-life, and the subs have no chance in Hell of being that man, they lose fans. https://vt.co/entertainment/celebrity/streamer-and-cosplayer-amouranth-loses-300000-followers-on-twitch https://vt.co/entertainment/celebrity/streamer-and-cosplayer...
    - qtplatypus 6y ago
      This is not unique to Twitch. https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/entertainment/article/3050211/how-marriage-can-make-or-break-k-pop-stars-career-and-why https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/entertainment/article/3050211... All entertainment is selling an illusion.
    - stale2002 6y ago
      > that's why Twitch streamers such as Pokimane and Amouranth have words like "boyfriend" and "husband" banned from their chats I think it is actually much more likely that they have those things banned, because misogynists individuals, such as yourself, constantly bring that narrative up to attack them over that, and make accusations similar to the ones that you just did. It is kind of similar to how when a women talks on voice chat in a video game, will get stupid comments about them being a woman on the internet. Sure, it might not be a big deal when it happens the first couple times, but when it happens every single day of their life, it gets old. Accusations and harassment, such as what you just did, belongs in a similar category of low level attacks, that don't seem like a big deal in a vacuum, but can actually get pretty annoying when hundreds of harassers message you about it, every single day of your life.
- racl101 6y ago
  True. This reminds of porn, whereby, once you're out there, then you're out there. Good luck working with kids or anything involving kids. Even females aren't exempt from the scrutiny. Or any job where guys recognize you, now you're screwed if you have any aspirations to remain anonymous or even lead a normal life. You'll need a community of people supporting you. It seems like an endeavour where the potential for regrets is high. Look up most pornstar bios and they usually end up with them having a hard time readjusting to the regular world and few ever manage to move past their old life that they end up going back to porn cause it's the only family that accepts them, but at the cost of exploiting them more. This might not carry necessarily the same stigma, but the fact that many people treat it the same is problematic.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    For everyone who's a pornstar there's another dozen people who used the money to go to college (or whatever their exit is) and start a career.
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > For everyone who's a pornstar there's another dozen people who used the money to go to college (or whatever their exit is) and start a career. Source showing that happens with that frequency? While I'm sure there there exists someone who did porn and used the money to springboard to achieve some happy goal, the idea that's the usual outcome seems like a guilt-alleviating fiction. I don't think it even passes smell test, because my understanding is porn doesn't even pay that well [1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/16/mia-khalifa-is-among-worlds-most-watched-women-yet-porn-industry-is-keeping-profits/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/16/mia-khali...
- stouset 6y ago
  Most of these come along with being a professional athlete, and yet few seem to have the same level of concern.
  - FillardMillmore 6y ago
    The difference is that being an athlete isn't considered taboo.
    - elliekelly 6y ago
      Sure it is. Sometimes I feel guilty watching football and hockey players get their brains knocked around and getting seriously injured. Especially the younger or the less well-known players who presumably aren’t making as much money. But I assume if they’re on the field it’s because they understand the risks and they’ve decided that they’re compensated for those risks through some combination of their paycheck, potential fame, and love of the game. And the same is true for women on OnlyFans.
      - scubbo 6y ago
        You have a very different understanding of the word "taboo" than I do. There is no[1] societal shaming of sports stars. [1] OK, there's some. But very very little - and, usually, due to judgement (deserved or not) about how they employ their wealth, not about _the profession of_ being a sports star.
sedev 6y ago
Friend, the amount of work that the modal model does is _far_ more than that. Unless you mean the amount of work OF is doing?
- Decker87 6y ago
  It depends a lot on the model, but some are probably making way more than they'd make elsewhere.

dvt 6y ago

> I'm not understanding what you mean there? Aren't they making a lot of money for only a little work? Some are, but at the cost of privacy, having weirdos stalk you online, potential future job prospects, etc. Not to mention the time and money that goes into actually taking photos, curating, responding to messages, etc. It's not as easy as it might seem.

delecti 6y ago
The time and money that goes into it is what makes it a job. That's a bit different from the privacy/weirdos/career effects.
luckylion 6y ago
It's not as easy as it seems, I'm sure. But it's extremely compensated well for what is essentially unskilled labor. Sure, it has some disadvantages, but I'm fairly certain that for most people the advantages far outweigh them.
- notyourday 6y ago
  > It's not as easy as it seems, I'm sure. But it's extremely compensated well for what is essentially unskilled labor. This is a fundamental mistake that people make when discussing this. As in any content market the money is in the head. Both tail and the long tail could do 2x the work of the head and receive nearly no compensation.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    Are they staying in the market? If you're doing it for 50 hours a week for barely any compensation, isn't it more of a hobby. I'm not saying that every cam girl is getting mega rich from it, but they're making good money in relation to the effort required. There's not zero effort but it's also not something you need to go to uni for three years and then spend time as a junior cam girl getting experience. Which is fine, btw, I don't mind it, but I always find it weird when the image is presented blurry as in "we can't really tell whether it's a professional<=>customer relationships or just two people interacting socially", because I think we generally can tell very well.
    - KSteffensen 6y ago
      > If you're doing it for 50 hours a week for barely any compensation, isn't it more of a hobby. By that argument cleaning hotel rooms is a hobby.
      - luckylion 6y ago
        If you have alternatives to cleaning hotel rooms, it would be. There aren't any for most that work there though. If they didn't make money on Only Fans, normal jobs are still available, and if you make next to nothing, even cleaning hotel rooms might be a step up. My impression is that many of those that make very little (on the platform, in relation to the top stars) make enough in relation to their time input that it beats cleaning hotel rooms or waitressing.
    - notyourday 6y ago
      > Are they staying in the market? If you're doing it for 50 hours a week for barely any compensation, isn't it more of a hobby. Because they read that it is easy money. It is repeated time and time again by the cam work is work crowd.
- stouset 6y ago
  It's not as unskilled as you might think it is. Professionals here put in a lot of thought and effort to their promoting their specific niche, brand, etc. Many of them have a solid understanding of lighting and photography and employ that knowledge to improve their work. This is about as insulting as saying photography is "unskilled labor". Sure, anyone can take a photograph. But the people who are at the top are generally there because of hard work and business smarts.
  - CapricornNoble 6y ago
    Can you articulate how this particular Twitch streamer is employing deep knowledge and thought to improve her work? To the tune of $250k+ compensation? Can't anyone hire someone with experience in theater/film lighting to setup their stream studio with a day's labor? https://twitter.com/gundamishere/status/1106672499796951040?lang=en https://twitter.com/gundamishere/status/1106672499796951040?...
    - chillwaves 6y ago
      So are you saying just because she is pretty she can pull in those $$? Because there are a lot of pretty women in the world and I would say 99% aren't 1% as successful. There is definitely skill and knowledge involved.
      - CapricornNoble 6y ago
        >>Because there are a lot of pretty women in the world and I would say 99% aren't 1% as successful. 99% of the pretty women aren't leveraging a tech platform to directly extract resources from lonely dudes across the entire planet. It's more due to ignorance of their options for monetizing their sexuality than it is well-developed and unique skillsets. I've actually been debating starting a CamStudio with a friend of mine, as I've met more than a few cute women who don't grasp the concept of "You can make more money by just sitting your butt in front of a computer monitor all day in makeup and a low-cut top". Anyone who has worked in a cabaret, a "girls bar/snack bar", or a strip club understands the basics of talking to the Johns, and appearance-enhancing makeup and outfits. Camming/streaming just combines their social skills with IT/technical support to expand their potential client base. They won't become Belle Delphine overnight but there's a lot of room for low-effort revenue growth with a bit of management and guidance, IMO.
- chii 6y ago
  > But it's extremely compensated well for what is essentially unskilled labor. skill doesn't determine compensation - supply and demand does. If an action is unskilled, but has high demand and low supply, then said action will fetch a much higher price than another action which requires much skill, but has high supply. And being on onlyfans is not unskilled - you need skill. Natural born skill is still considered a skill, and you will also need to be photogenic (or video-genic?). Being entertaining is also a skill, tho not always required.
httpsterio 6y ago
That's the trade off for being any type of celebrity. I don't think selling lewd photos of oneself is something I'd judge a person about and for all I care, it should be normalized even. I mean, thousands of people have their nudes leaked by people whom they trust and accounts get hacked (The Fappening for example). I don't think ha ind your nudes out in the wild should ruin you in any way in this day and age. And about the privacy, I think online models like Belle Delphine and the likes still have a far greater possibility to appear anonymously outdoors than Hollywood actresses or even state level politicians. In reality, they're not getting paid for supplying photos, appearing in movies or singing into a microphone, they're getting paid for letting the common folk have a voyeuristic view into their private life.
- CapricornNoble 6y ago
  >>>they're getting paid for letting the common folk have a voyeuristic view into their private life. Many of them aren't doing that honestly: that's why Twitch streamers such as Pokimane and Amouranth have words like "boyfriend" and "husband" banned from their chats. Every time their subscribers find out there's actually another man fucking them in real-life, and the subs have no chance in Hell of being that man, they lose fans. https://vt.co/entertainment/celebrity/streamer-and-cosplayer-amouranth-loses-300000-followers-on-twitch https://vt.co/entertainment/celebrity/streamer-and-cosplayer...
  - qtplatypus 6y ago
    This is not unique to Twitch. https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/entertainment/article/3050211/how-marriage-can-make-or-break-k-pop-stars-career-and-why https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/entertainment/article/3050211... All entertainment is selling an illusion.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > that's why Twitch streamers such as Pokimane and Amouranth have words like "boyfriend" and "husband" banned from their chats I think it is actually much more likely that they have those things banned, because misogynists individuals, such as yourself, constantly bring that narrative up to attack them over that, and make accusations similar to the ones that you just did. It is kind of similar to how when a women talks on voice chat in a video game, will get stupid comments about them being a woman on the internet. Sure, it might not be a big deal when it happens the first couple times, but when it happens every single day of their life, it gets old. Accusations and harassment, such as what you just did, belongs in a similar category of low level attacks, that don't seem like a big deal in a vacuum, but can actually get pretty annoying when hundreds of harassers message you about it, every single day of your life.
racl101 6y ago
True. This reminds of porn, whereby, once you're out there, then you're out there. Good luck working with kids or anything involving kids. Even females aren't exempt from the scrutiny. Or any job where guys recognize you, now you're screwed if you have any aspirations to remain anonymous or even lead a normal life. You'll need a community of people supporting you. It seems like an endeavour where the potential for regrets is high. Look up most pornstar bios and they usually end up with them having a hard time readjusting to the regular world and few ever manage to move past their old life that they end up going back to porn cause it's the only family that accepts them, but at the cost of exploiting them more. This might not carry necessarily the same stigma, but the fact that many people treat it the same is problematic.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  For everyone who's a pornstar there's another dozen people who used the money to go to college (or whatever their exit is) and start a career.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > For everyone who's a pornstar there's another dozen people who used the money to go to college (or whatever their exit is) and start a career. Source showing that happens with that frequency? While I'm sure there there exists someone who did porn and used the money to springboard to achieve some happy goal, the idea that's the usual outcome seems like a guilt-alleviating fiction. I don't think it even passes smell test, because my understanding is porn doesn't even pay that well [1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/16/mia-khalifa-is-among-worlds-most-watched-women-yet-porn-industry-is-keeping-profits/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/16/mia-khali...
stouset 6y ago
Most of these come along with being a professional athlete, and yet few seem to have the same level of concern.
- FillardMillmore 6y ago
  The difference is that being an athlete isn't considered taboo.
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    Sure it is. Sometimes I feel guilty watching football and hockey players get their brains knocked around and getting seriously injured. Especially the younger or the less well-known players who presumably aren’t making as much money. But I assume if they’re on the field it’s because they understand the risks and they’ve decided that they’re compensated for those risks through some combination of their paycheck, potential fame, and love of the game. And the same is true for women on OnlyFans.
    - scubbo 6y ago
      You have a very different understanding of the word "taboo" than I do. There is no[1] societal shaming of sports stars. [1] OK, there's some. But very very little - and, usually, due to judgement (deserved or not) about how they employ their wealth, not about _the profession of_ being a sports star.

sedev 6y ago

Friend, the amount of work that the modal model does is _far_ more than that. Unless you mean the amount of work OF is doing?

Decker87 6y ago
It depends a lot on the model, but some are probably making way more than they'd make elsewhere.