6 ms·

Most woman can get attention at some appropriate level. Even if not coolest, prettiest, smartest. A lot of man can't. And the way to get together to be attracti

by kvgr 6y ago

Most woman can get attention at some appropriate level. Even if not coolest, prettiest, smartest. A lot of man can't. And the way to get together to be attractive is sometimes hard. Better to pay for only fans than to shoot up some place...

actuator 6y ago
But is paid attention worth it, wouldn't it end up making you feel hollow once that interaction is over and you realize how made up the whole thing was.
- chongli 6y ago
  If you can get paid attention then you can get free attention. I would imagine a lot of these female performers are already in relationships. They just work very hard to conceal their relationships online in order to preserve the illusion for their fans.
  - actuator 6y ago
    I was talking about the males who are paying, not the female performers. They definitely should be able to get attention, and for them from an economic opportunity perspective this makes complete sense.
    - chongli 6y ago
      Oh in that case I don't think they realize how hollow it is, at least not at first. The top performers (on Twitch, anyway, I have never visited OnlyFans) work very hard to keep their top donors happy. They thank them profusely, grant them moderator status, single out their chat messages to read and respond to on stream, and likely even chat with them in private messages after the stream. Anything to maintain the illusion that this is a real relationship rather than a transactional one. This is why OnlyFans was created in the first place: a site outside of the rules of Twitch terms of service that lets performers take things "to the next level" with their top donors. It's like the VIP room in a strip club. Edit to add more thoughts: I think strip clubs are the right analogy for how to evaluate these channels (the "just chatting" ones and any of the gaming ones that prominently feature very attractive performers). They are fundamentally about creating and maintaining an illusion with the (usually male viewers). Unfortunately, this can be very dangerous. It's pretty common knowledge that strippers are much more likely to suffer violence than the average woman. They may be safer than street-walking prostitutes, but nowhere near as safe as a woman in a white-collar job. How safe are these streamers in the long run? The distance and pseudonymity provided by the internet may afford a level of safety, compared to the closeness of a strip club. On the other hand, streamers can have several orders of magnitude more viewers than even the largest of strip clubs. A large viewer count can magnify the risk that one disillusioned fan decides to "go rogue" and stalk the streamer, dox her, and attack her in person. I would not be surprised if we see a case of serious violence (or murder) against a top streamer within a few years.
      - chillwaves 6y ago
        Realistically, the streamers are safe. You can't really compare it to a girl working in meat space, who is potentially being threatened by not just her clients, but also the management of the club, potentially her own pimp, other pimps and maybe other girls in the business as well. Streamers getting doxxed is not really a thing, and they have viewers from around the world. Anyhow, I think your concern is not warranted, otherwise we would already be hearing more about these kind of incidents. I have heard of a few incidents like this happening to Kpop groups, but there you have 1) mega audience 2) crazy fans 3) physical interaction (concerts) so streamers at least at an advantage re: 3.
        lostgame 6y ago
        >> Streamers getting doxxed is not really a thing ...what?! I mean, really? I have friends who have had this issue, I am baffled by this perspective. It's always been an issue, it will always be. What?
        Nextgrid 6y ago
        > I have heard of a few incidents [...] but there you have [...] crazy fans Is there no "crazy fans" in the OnlyFans/Twitch community? I'd argue that the probability of crazy/mentally unstable fans would be a lot higher in this weird "parasocial relationship" environment compared to a typical music band fanbase.
- the_af 6y ago
  > But is paid attention worth it Well, good old prostitution has been pretty successful since the dawn of mankind, so the answer must be "yes" for a lot of people.
  - bsder 6y ago
    > Well, good old prostitution has been pretty successful since the dawn of mankind, so the answer must be "yes" for a lot of people. To be fair, much like drug dealing, it's not clear how "successful" prostitution is. Much like anything else, there is a power law distribution in effect. A few make a lot of money, but a lot make very little. Of the women I have known on that path, I know of only two who actually didn't wind up in a bad place at the end. Drug addiction was the primary problem--if you work in the sex industry you work with a LOT of scumbags who want to hook you on drugs in order to control you.
    - the_af 6y ago
      You're replying from the point of view of the providers (the prostitutes), but the question I answered was about whether paid attention "was worth it" from the point of view of the clients. It obviously is, otherwise prostitution wouldn't have been so widespread for so long.
      - bsder 6y ago
        > It obviously is, otherwise prostitution wouldn't have been so widespread for so long. Maybe, but "It's worth it" encompasses from "I have lots of choice and can afford it." (Heidi Fleiss clients) to "I have no other means of access so it's this or nothing." (the slum streetcorner)
        chii 6y ago
        If you change the topic from prostitution to food, does it make any difference? You could pay for michelin star quality food, or eat chickpeas. Both will sustain you just fine, but which is "worth it"?
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Western culture has generated a wide range of superficial behaviors and attitudes in half the population. This is just an expression of that.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > But is paid attention worth it, wouldn't it end up making you feel hollow once that interaction is over and you realize how made up the whole thing was. We pay for lots of (social/emotional) illusions in entertainment. People tend to suggest that this is a risk of the kind of illusions they don't indulge in, and you certainly can see examples of it with lots of those illusions, but I don't think it's exclusive to any of them. Though in the illusion of personal connection, it's probably more dangerous to the seller when the buyer gets lost and expects reality instead of illusion.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  You mean, like an actor or a singer?

by kvgr 6y ago

actuator 6y ago

But is paid attention worth it, wouldn't it end up making you feel hollow once that interaction is over and you realize how made up the whole thing was.

chongli 6y ago
If you can get paid attention then you can get free attention. I would imagine a lot of these female performers are already in relationships. They just work very hard to conceal their relationships online in order to preserve the illusion for their fans.
- actuator 6y ago
  I was talking about the males who are paying, not the female performers. They definitely should be able to get attention, and for them from an economic opportunity perspective this makes complete sense.
  - chongli 6y ago
    Oh in that case I don't think they realize how hollow it is, at least not at first. The top performers (on Twitch, anyway, I have never visited OnlyFans) work very hard to keep their top donors happy. They thank them profusely, grant them moderator status, single out their chat messages to read and respond to on stream, and likely even chat with them in private messages after the stream. Anything to maintain the illusion that this is a real relationship rather than a transactional one. This is why OnlyFans was created in the first place: a site outside of the rules of Twitch terms of service that lets performers take things "to the next level" with their top donors. It's like the VIP room in a strip club. Edit to add more thoughts: I think strip clubs are the right analogy for how to evaluate these channels (the "just chatting" ones and any of the gaming ones that prominently feature very attractive performers). They are fundamentally about creating and maintaining an illusion with the (usually male viewers). Unfortunately, this can be very dangerous. It's pretty common knowledge that strippers are much more likely to suffer violence than the average woman. They may be safer than street-walking prostitutes, but nowhere near as safe as a woman in a white-collar job. How safe are these streamers in the long run? The distance and pseudonymity provided by the internet may afford a level of safety, compared to the closeness of a strip club. On the other hand, streamers can have several orders of magnitude more viewers than even the largest of strip clubs. A large viewer count can magnify the risk that one disillusioned fan decides to "go rogue" and stalk the streamer, dox her, and attack her in person. I would not be surprised if we see a case of serious violence (or murder) against a top streamer within a few years.
    - chillwaves 6y ago
      Realistically, the streamers are safe. You can't really compare it to a girl working in meat space, who is potentially being threatened by not just her clients, but also the management of the club, potentially her own pimp, other pimps and maybe other girls in the business as well. Streamers getting doxxed is not really a thing, and they have viewers from around the world. Anyhow, I think your concern is not warranted, otherwise we would already be hearing more about these kind of incidents. I have heard of a few incidents like this happening to Kpop groups, but there you have 1) mega audience 2) crazy fans 3) physical interaction (concerts) so streamers at least at an advantage re: 3.
      - lostgame 6y ago
        >> Streamers getting doxxed is not really a thing ...what?! I mean, really? I have friends who have had this issue, I am baffled by this perspective. It's always been an issue, it will always be. What?
      - Nextgrid 6y ago
        > I have heard of a few incidents [...] but there you have [...] crazy fans Is there no "crazy fans" in the OnlyFans/Twitch community? I'd argue that the probability of crazy/mentally unstable fans would be a lot higher in this weird "parasocial relationship" environment compared to a typical music band fanbase.
the_af 6y ago
> But is paid attention worth it Well, good old prostitution has been pretty successful since the dawn of mankind, so the answer must be "yes" for a lot of people.
- bsder 6y ago
  > Well, good old prostitution has been pretty successful since the dawn of mankind, so the answer must be "yes" for a lot of people. To be fair, much like drug dealing, it's not clear how "successful" prostitution is. Much like anything else, there is a power law distribution in effect. A few make a lot of money, but a lot make very little. Of the women I have known on that path, I know of only two who actually didn't wind up in a bad place at the end. Drug addiction was the primary problem--if you work in the sex industry you work with a LOT of scumbags who want to hook you on drugs in order to control you.
  - the_af 6y ago
    You're replying from the point of view of the providers (the prostitutes), but the question I answered was about whether paid attention "was worth it" from the point of view of the clients. It obviously is, otherwise prostitution wouldn't have been so widespread for so long.
    - bsder 6y ago
      > It obviously is, otherwise prostitution wouldn't have been so widespread for so long. Maybe, but "It's worth it" encompasses from "I have lots of choice and can afford it." (Heidi Fleiss clients) to "I have no other means of access so it's this or nothing." (the slum streetcorner)
      - chii 6y ago
        If you change the topic from prostitution to food, does it make any difference? You could pay for michelin star quality food, or eat chickpeas. Both will sustain you just fine, but which is "worth it"?
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Western culture has generated a wide range of superficial behaviors and attitudes in half the population. This is just an expression of that.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> But is paid attention worth it, wouldn't it end up making you feel hollow once that interaction is over and you realize how made up the whole thing was. We pay for lots of (social/emotional) illusions in entertainment. People tend to suggest that this is a risk of the kind of illusions they don't indulge in, and you certainly can see examples of it with lots of those illusions, but I don't think it's exclusive to any of them. Though in the illusion of personal connection, it's probably more dangerous to the seller when the buyer gets lost and expects reality instead of illusion.
cblconfederate 6y ago
You mean, like an actor or a singer?