4 ms·

Everyone is just going to go virtual/remote and leave. It's clear that the state is run by a property owners' cartel determined to restrict supply until they st

by api 6y ago

Everyone is just going to go virtual/remote and leave. It's clear that the state is run by a property owners' cartel determined to restrict supply until they strangle the place.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lokar 6y ago
I feel like towns should have a right to control the feel, density and character. The real issue is that zoning for jobs and housing are out of balance. Towns/Counties should be required to balance them. eg, you can't allow that 500,000sqft office building unless you also zone enough housing for the people who will work there. If a small town wants to stay single family homes, but also is not zoning new jobs, they should not have to change to accommodate other towns zoning tons of office space with no housing.
- thebradbain 6y ago
  That sounds great in theory, but then you remember that the Bay Area is a metropolitan area of fiefdoms. Why are Daly City, South San Francisco, Brisbane, San Bruno all separate entities? Why are Palo Alto, Atherton, Cupertino, Mountain View, Sunnyvale all separate cities? I can't even begin to list all the Peninsula fiefdoms... and all of Marin County? And yet they all rely on a few job centers (San Jose, San Francisco, Silicon Valley megacampuses...)? Should they really be separate cities, and why do they get a pass on building housing when they're essentially parasitic communities that could not exist without the larger metropolitan areas yet don't support them via city tax money (and in some cases, like Atherton, with a minimum residential lot size of 1+ acre, actively hold back the entire region in the case of CalTrain electrification because they don't want the "inconvenience of more frequent trains" disrupting their community) This isn't just a problem specific to the Bay Area, but all of California. Los Angeles –– and the fact that even within the city of Los Angeles, the legal concept of Neighorhood Councils splits the city itself into political fiefdoms even in the same city council district – and SoCal (especially Orange County) are arguably worse, coming from someone who has lived in both cities. EDIT / Anecdote: I grew up in Dallas (and I still consider it my home), and while that city has its own set of problems, one notable problem it does NOT have is a lack of supply of housing due to red tape around zoning. Dallas, unlike Houston (which has no zoning), is a zoned city, but requesting a zoning exemption takes only a few months rather than a few years, and the overall result is more homes, denser development, newer buildings, and cheaper housing stock. My childhood neighborhood has experienced a lot of nearby development, but would I say the character has notably changed? No.
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    San Jose is truly one of the least scaled out major cities in California with capacity for multiples of its current residency. Ignore those insular cities up the peninsula and lets build up San Jose and get benefits of scale from being colocated.
    - api 6y ago
      The benefits of scale come with the cost of unaffordability and inability for the middle class to build wealth. I have also come to see it as overrated in general. Concentrations bring benefits but also groupthink and tunnel vision, which is part of why SV works on the same things all the time and Hollywood can only make one movie.
      - thebradbain 6y ago
        "Scale comes with the cost of unaffordability" is an opinion, and one that's contrary to the widely shared opinions of experts in the domain, at that.
        api 6y ago
        What places have massive scale and are affordable? Please don't suggest tiny residences. This is fine when you're single, but throw in some kids or other extended family and it becomes highly stressful.
  - mrkstu 6y ago
    Being a unified county/city doesn't seem to have helped San Fran overcome NIMBYism and related ills.
    - thebradbain 6y ago
      You're right. Being a unified county/city doesn't mean that a city will still necessarily get everything (or even most things) right. However, I think it's safe to say that SF and Oakland are doing the most of any other "city" in the Bay Area to add more housing -- though that bar is low, and it's still nowhere near enough.
- jedberg 6y ago
  That's already the law, actually. It's just poorly enforced. Cupertino just approved a huge office complex that will throw the ratio way off, but no one is stopping them and the penalties are minimal.

by api 6y ago

Everyone is just going to go virtual/remote and leave. It's clear that the state is run by a property owners' cartel determined to restrict supply until they strangle the place.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

lokar 6y ago

I feel like towns should have a right to control the feel, density and character. The real issue is that zoning for jobs and housing are out of balance. Towns/Counties should be required to balance them. eg, you can't allow that 500,000sqft office building unless you also zone enough housing for the people who will work there. If a small town wants to stay single family homes, but also is not zoning new jobs, they should not have to change to accommodate other towns zoning tons of office space with no housing.

thebradbain 6y ago
That sounds great in theory, but then you remember that the Bay Area is a metropolitan area of fiefdoms. Why are Daly City, South San Francisco, Brisbane, San Bruno all separate entities? Why are Palo Alto, Atherton, Cupertino, Mountain View, Sunnyvale all separate cities? I can't even begin to list all the Peninsula fiefdoms... and all of Marin County? And yet they all rely on a few job centers (San Jose, San Francisco, Silicon Valley megacampuses...)? Should they really be separate cities, and why do they get a pass on building housing when they're essentially parasitic communities that could not exist without the larger metropolitan areas yet don't support them via city tax money (and in some cases, like Atherton, with a minimum residential lot size of 1+ acre, actively hold back the entire region in the case of CalTrain electrification because they don't want the "inconvenience of more frequent trains" disrupting their community) This isn't just a problem specific to the Bay Area, but all of California. Los Angeles –– and the fact that even within the city of Los Angeles, the legal concept of Neighorhood Councils splits the city itself into political fiefdoms even in the same city council district – and SoCal (especially Orange County) are arguably worse, coming from someone who has lived in both cities. EDIT / Anecdote: I grew up in Dallas (and I still consider it my home), and while that city has its own set of problems, one notable problem it does NOT have is a lack of supply of housing due to red tape around zoning. Dallas, unlike Houston (which has no zoning), is a zoned city, but requesting a zoning exemption takes only a few months rather than a few years, and the overall result is more homes, denser development, newer buildings, and cheaper housing stock. My childhood neighborhood has experienced a lot of nearby development, but would I say the character has notably changed? No.
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  San Jose is truly one of the least scaled out major cities in California with capacity for multiples of its current residency. Ignore those insular cities up the peninsula and lets build up San Jose and get benefits of scale from being colocated.
  - api 6y ago
    The benefits of scale come with the cost of unaffordability and inability for the middle class to build wealth. I have also come to see it as overrated in general. Concentrations bring benefits but also groupthink and tunnel vision, which is part of why SV works on the same things all the time and Hollywood can only make one movie.
    - thebradbain 6y ago
      "Scale comes with the cost of unaffordability" is an opinion, and one that's contrary to the widely shared opinions of experts in the domain, at that.
      - api 6y ago
        What places have massive scale and are affordable? Please don't suggest tiny residences. This is fine when you're single, but throw in some kids or other extended family and it becomes highly stressful.
- mrkstu 6y ago
  Being a unified county/city doesn't seem to have helped San Fran overcome NIMBYism and related ills.
  - thebradbain 6y ago
    You're right. Being a unified county/city doesn't mean that a city will still necessarily get everything (or even most things) right. However, I think it's safe to say that SF and Oakland are doing the most of any other "city" in the Bay Area to add more housing -- though that bar is low, and it's still nowhere near enough.
jedberg 6y ago
That's already the law, actually. It's just poorly enforced. Cupertino just approved a huge office complex that will throw the ratio way off, but no one is stopping them and the penalties are minimal.