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Any argument that is "makes more sense to humans" that is actually based on repeated exposure to the concept/metric since young age fall flat on itself. It mak

Any argument that is "makes more sense to humans" that is actually based on repeated exposure to the concept/metric since young age fall flat on itself. It makes more sense to YOU because you've used it since early life, so you have created an mental model for it. Countries with metric system, people have done the same. As one example, In a recent after-work conversation, some one mentioned the stupidity of the "stone" measurement, upon the Italian, Canadian, Japanese, American, Swedish, Mexican, Chinese and the Russian all agreed it was the most non-intuitive stupid thing they have ever heard. Except the Brit at the place, who (in vain) tried to explain how it made sense and made "more sense to humans"

sho 6y ago
You're spot on with the mental models. If I try to imagine a gallon, I think of 2x2L bottles, one of them not quite full. A pint and I imagine a 600mL soft drink or water bottle. When you start having to do double conversions (eg miles per gallon) it becomes hopeless - that means nothing to me - and I have to convert to l/100km. These "intuitiveness" arguments are silly. It's whatever you're used to. So with that realisation, we may as well choose the more universally self-consistent and useful system, which is indisputably metric.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  > A pint and I imagine a 600mL soft drink Careful, that's a British pint. An American pint is closer to 400mL.
teddyh 6y ago
> It makes more sense to YOU because you've used it since early life, so you have created an mental model for it. Countries with metric system, people have done the same. There was an xkcd comic with lists of ready-to-go mental models about metric units for people who grew up without them: https://xkcd.com/526/ https://xkcd.com/526/
axaxs 6y ago
I'm not British, but I do agree that the stone measurement does make sense in a human way. It's pretty easy to see how it came about. Oh take a rock about the size of x(whatever x was agreed upon at the time), and see how many that item weighs. In a time without precise machinery, or any machinery at all, you can see how such a system was thought up. Do you disagree with the above, or do you just think in the modern world it shouldn't exist anymore?
- NalNezumi 6y ago
  >. Oh take a rock about the size of x(whatever x was agreed upon at the time), and see how many that item weighs. I do not disagree with the above, I can totally see that being done (hell, when we didn't have a measure out while hiking with my friends we used "5 iPhones long" as a temporary measurement) Problem is of course, that I can't see how that measurement can ever scale well beyond one medieval towns market place as a measurement, let alone a country, kingdom or a territory without confusion. It is ambiguous. Just as the example you said, it is easy for a fraudster to pick up any rock and claim that one to resemble the standard rock unit and get some unfair trading advantage. It is too easy to trample with. The purpose of measurement is exactly to REMOVE ambiguity, and establish a STANDARDS just as we established common languages for communication. And on a side note, usage of the "stone measurement" was officially prohibited for commercial use in 1985 in UK. It is apparently still used for body-weight, but I guess there ambiguity can be preferred ;) Updating measurement unit according to societal needs is only natural, and the purpose of the Stone story in my comment was that, even among so many different national (with different culture, language, metric system) they thought the Stone measurement made no sense today. Except the Brit that had a mental model for it. Which was the point: sometime mental model can seem like an good argument, but as the Canadian and American also thought stone was dumb, (While everyone else in the room thought imperial units were dumb) they kind of proved that their argument for imperial units was also not found on good basis.

sho 6y ago

You're spot on with the mental models. If I try to imagine a gallon, I think of 2x2L bottles, one of them not quite full. A pint and I imagine a 600mL soft drink or water bottle. When you start having to do double conversions (eg miles per gallon) it becomes hopeless - that means nothing to me - and I have to convert to l/100km. These "intuitiveness" arguments are silly. It's whatever you're used to. So with that realisation, we may as well choose the more universally self-consistent and useful system, which is indisputably metric.

benhurmarcel 6y ago
> A pint and I imagine a 600mL soft drink Careful, that's a British pint. An American pint is closer to 400mL.

teddyh 6y ago

> It makes more sense to YOU because you've used it since early life, so you have created an mental model for it. Countries with metric system, people have done the same. There was an xkcd comic with lists of ready-to-go mental models about metric units for people who grew up without them: https://xkcd.com/526/ https://xkcd.com/526/

axaxs 6y ago

I'm not British, but I do agree that the stone measurement does make sense in a human way. It's pretty easy to see how it came about. Oh take a rock about the size of x(whatever x was agreed upon at the time), and see how many that item weighs. In a time without precise machinery, or any machinery at all, you can see how such a system was thought up. Do you disagree with the above, or do you just think in the modern world it shouldn't exist anymore?

NalNezumi 6y ago
>. Oh take a rock about the size of x(whatever x was agreed upon at the time), and see how many that item weighs. I do not disagree with the above, I can totally see that being done (hell, when we didn't have a measure out while hiking with my friends we used "5 iPhones long" as a temporary measurement) Problem is of course, that I can't see how that measurement can ever scale well beyond one medieval towns market place as a measurement, let alone a country, kingdom or a territory without confusion. It is ambiguous. Just as the example you said, it is easy for a fraudster to pick up any rock and claim that one to resemble the standard rock unit and get some unfair trading advantage. It is too easy to trample with. The purpose of measurement is exactly to REMOVE ambiguity, and establish a STANDARDS just as we established common languages for communication. And on a side note, usage of the "stone measurement" was officially prohibited for commercial use in 1985 in UK. It is apparently still used for body-weight, but I guess there ambiguity can be preferred ;) Updating measurement unit according to societal needs is only natural, and the purpose of the Stone story in my comment was that, even among so many different national (with different culture, language, metric system) they thought the Stone measurement made no sense today. Except the Brit that had a mental model for it. Which was the point: sometime mental model can seem like an good argument, but as the Canadian and American also thought stone was dumb, (While everyone else in the room thought imperial units were dumb) they kind of proved that their argument for imperial units was also not found on good basis.