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From the article: "But Thiel’s issues with education run even deeper. He thinks it’s fundamentally wrong for a society to pin people’s best hope for a better li

From the article: "But Thiel’s issues with education run even deeper. He thinks it’s fundamentally wrong for a society to pin people’s best hope for a better life on something that is by definition exclusionary. “If Harvard were really the best education, if it makes that much of a difference, why not franchise it so more people can attend? Why not create 100 Harvard affiliates?” he says. “It’s something about the scarcity and the status[...]”" You're probably right on Harvard-as-a-filter, but Thiel has seen this.

kenjackson 16y ago
He's definitely seen it, but he misses it. Let me start by saying that the standard of living has increased for everyone, but yet being poor still sucks. And it will continue to suck. Increasing you standard of living is no fun if everyone else's increases faster. The reason you do things like college, YC, or even start a company, is generally to differentiate yourself with respect to standard of living (some people do this to make the world a better place, but those people are few enough that wlog we can ignore them). You can't look at a system that is meant to create differentiations and then complain because it creates them. For better or worse, its doing what its meant to do. Even if you were to get rid of college altogether, you'd still have the issue persist. But now it would just shift to making into Thiel's Talented 20, or the Moritz 5, or YC, or TechStars -- each with a different level of repute (because at the end of the day, there is going to be differentiation between who is given nothing to start a company and those people that everyone wants to shove a million dollars in their pocket). Unless we go to a socialist system, people will value metrics that differentiate people -- and ideally the differentiation should happen on someone else's dime. Today that dime is the student/parent/government. Maybe in the future it will be VCs, but trust me it will still happen as a VC as bright as Theil knows its not prudent to fund everyone at equal levels.
- entangld 16y ago
  >"Let me start by saying that the standard of living has increased for everyone, but yet being poor still sucks."< I'd argue people are going to school to get higher wages. Wages have stagnated for the last 20+ years. High cost university educations are offering little or no bargaining power to individuals. Just like buying an overpriced house you can't sell. It's a bubble.
  - stretchwithme 16y ago
    Any time you make it cheap to increase the supply of a thing, the supply of it increases. But that also decreases the price one can get for it Eventually people's awareness catches up with reality. And that's usually when the government tries to lower the cost of increasing the supply even more. But for some reason, people don't seem to fall for it twice. So the search is on for new things to bubble-ize.
- stretchwithme 16y ago
  It isn't being poor that sucks. Its not having any pathway out of being poor that sucks. Socialism, consistently followed, makes the pathway equal for everyone. Which is why it fails when consistently followed. No one's going to struggle to create if there is no reward.
  - stretchwithme 16y ago
    ok, being poor does actually suck. I grew up poor. It sucked. But perpetuating it is the real problem. Property rights are the cure, not socialism. Hernando de Soto states the case well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernando_de_Soto_Polar
    - rjbond3rd 16y ago
      Interesting. I'm curious: how did you become non-poor and what were the factors that made it possible in your case (if you are willing to share that)?
      - stretchwithme 16y ago
        I worked two jobs, spent very little, saved money, went back to school for electrical engineering technology, graduated and became a programmer I was one of six kids. We were always taught learning was important. We went to Catholic schools. We had nothing but always lived in a neighborhood where everybody worked. I think that is very important. Seeing cause and effect is very important. But this is not unusual. Many people in the US have parents or grandparents who started with nothing. Poverty is a cultural and political creation. Most people that desire to save and invest and are allowed to keep the results will work their way out of it. Those who are taught to consume and borrow or have the results of their efforts taken cannot.
        rjbond3rd 16y ago
        Aha, okay, originally I thought you were saying, "Just bootstrap and quit whining," but now I see your point was much more nuanced. I guess it all comes down to individiuals making opportunities within a system that is dysfunctional (to whatever degree). Personally, I don't see it as socialism vs. capitalism but more of a self-interested bureaucracy vs. "good government" problem.
- justin 16y ago
  Perhaps, but YC costs nothing to apply and nothing if you are accepted, and a four year private college costs around 200k. That four year college often gives you largely impractical skills when it comes to employment. Why should we, as a society, try to choose differentiators that cost a ton of money for our students, instead of ones that are free?
  - timr 16y ago
    The vast majority of people don't have what it takes to get into YC, nor to do anything with the chance if they did get in. But many people have the ability to go to a state school, and it will definitely make them more employable if they major in something practical. Just based on the earning and unemployment rates of college grads vs. high school grads, a college degree still makes a dramatic difference in your chances of employment.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Let me start by saying that the standard of living has increased for everyone, but yet being poor still sucks. And it will continue to suck. Increasing you standard of living is no fun if everyone else's increases faster. Spoken like a person who's never seen real deprivation. In the 70's, many poor people didn't have a flush toilet. Pooping without walking into the backyard is fun, even if everyone else gets to do it too. If your only concern with the poverty is that the bottom 5% is jealous of other people, you need to stop and simply accept mathematical reality. You can't eliminate the bottom 5%. But eliminating the class envy rhetoric might at least reduce feelings of jealousy among the poor.
- randallsquared 16y ago
  > Increasing you standard of living is no fun if everyone else's increases faster. When you've reached the point where this is the case, you're not really poor any more. For someone who is actually poor, increasing standard of living is good without regard to whether other people's increases more.

kenjackson 16y ago

He's definitely seen it, but he misses it. Let me start by saying that the standard of living has increased for everyone, but yet being poor still sucks. And it will continue to suck. Increasing you standard of living is no fun if everyone else's increases faster. The reason you do things like college, YC, or even start a company, is generally to differentiate yourself with respect to standard of living (some people do this to make the world a better place, but those people are few enough that wlog we can ignore them). You can't look at a system that is meant to create differentiations and then complain because it creates them. For better or worse, its doing what its meant to do. Even if you were to get rid of college altogether, you'd still have the issue persist. But now it would just shift to making into Thiel's Talented 20, or the Moritz 5, or YC, or TechStars -- each with a different level of repute (because at the end of the day, there is going to be differentiation between who is given nothing to start a company and those people that everyone wants to shove a million dollars in their pocket). Unless we go to a socialist system, people will value metrics that differentiate people -- and ideally the differentiation should happen on someone else's dime. Today that dime is the student/parent/government. Maybe in the future it will be VCs, but trust me it will still happen as a VC as bright as Theil knows its not prudent to fund everyone at equal levels.

entangld 16y ago
>"Let me start by saying that the standard of living has increased for everyone, but yet being poor still sucks."< I'd argue people are going to school to get higher wages. Wages have stagnated for the last 20+ years. High cost university educations are offering little or no bargaining power to individuals. Just like buying an overpriced house you can't sell. It's a bubble.
- stretchwithme 16y ago
  Any time you make it cheap to increase the supply of a thing, the supply of it increases. But that also decreases the price one can get for it Eventually people's awareness catches up with reality. And that's usually when the government tries to lower the cost of increasing the supply even more. But for some reason, people don't seem to fall for it twice. So the search is on for new things to bubble-ize.
stretchwithme 16y ago
It isn't being poor that sucks. Its not having any pathway out of being poor that sucks. Socialism, consistently followed, makes the pathway equal for everyone. Which is why it fails when consistently followed. No one's going to struggle to create if there is no reward.
- stretchwithme 16y ago
  ok, being poor does actually suck. I grew up poor. It sucked. But perpetuating it is the real problem. Property rights are the cure, not socialism. Hernando de Soto states the case well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernando_de_Soto_Polar
  - rjbond3rd 16y ago
    Interesting. I'm curious: how did you become non-poor and what were the factors that made it possible in your case (if you are willing to share that)?
    - stretchwithme 16y ago
      I worked two jobs, spent very little, saved money, went back to school for electrical engineering technology, graduated and became a programmer I was one of six kids. We were always taught learning was important. We went to Catholic schools. We had nothing but always lived in a neighborhood where everybody worked. I think that is very important. Seeing cause and effect is very important. But this is not unusual. Many people in the US have parents or grandparents who started with nothing. Poverty is a cultural and political creation. Most people that desire to save and invest and are allowed to keep the results will work their way out of it. Those who are taught to consume and borrow or have the results of their efforts taken cannot.
      - rjbond3rd 16y ago
        Aha, okay, originally I thought you were saying, "Just bootstrap and quit whining," but now I see your point was much more nuanced. I guess it all comes down to individiuals making opportunities within a system that is dysfunctional (to whatever degree). Personally, I don't see it as socialism vs. capitalism but more of a self-interested bureaucracy vs. "good government" problem.
justin 16y ago
Perhaps, but YC costs nothing to apply and nothing if you are accepted, and a four year private college costs around 200k. That four year college often gives you largely impractical skills when it comes to employment. Why should we, as a society, try to choose differentiators that cost a ton of money for our students, instead of ones that are free?
- timr 16y ago
  The vast majority of people don't have what it takes to get into YC, nor to do anything with the chance if they did get in. But many people have the ability to go to a state school, and it will definitely make them more employable if they major in something practical. Just based on the earning and unemployment rates of college grads vs. high school grads, a college degree still makes a dramatic difference in your chances of employment.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
Let me start by saying that the standard of living has increased for everyone, but yet being poor still sucks. And it will continue to suck. Increasing you standard of living is no fun if everyone else's increases faster. Spoken like a person who's never seen real deprivation. In the 70's, many poor people didn't have a flush toilet. Pooping without walking into the backyard is fun, even if everyone else gets to do it too. If your only concern with the poverty is that the bottom 5% is jealous of other people, you need to stop and simply accept mathematical reality. You can't eliminate the bottom 5%. But eliminating the class envy rhetoric might at least reduce feelings of jealousy among the poor.
randallsquared 16y ago
> Increasing you standard of living is no fun if everyone else's increases faster. When you've reached the point where this is the case, you're not really poor any more. For someone who is actually poor, increasing standard of living is good without regard to whether other people's increases more.