19 ms·

Tech my dad banned in our house when I was a kid

144 points by BerislavLopac 6y ago

hddherman 6y ago
I would love to have a discussion with the person(s) who think that having an autoplay video pop up and cover 40% of the article I’m trying to read is a good idea.
- nkrisc 6y ago
  They'll just show you the chart that shows the resulting increase to ad revenue and then put their fingers in their ears.
- selectodude 6y ago
  https://www.greathillpartners.com/ceos/jim-spanfeller/ https://www.greathillpartners.com/ceos/jim-spanfeller/ Shoot him an email. Maybe ask him why he's such an herb.
  - shredprez 6y ago
    "An herb", good god. But completely agree. For anyone who hasn't followed what's happening to Gawker's corpse, this is worth a read: https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-adults-in-the-room-1837487584 https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-adults-in-the-room-183...
    - eindiran 6y ago
      https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/herb https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/herb Note the pronunciation given for US and Canadian English, with the optional /h/: /(h)ɝb/ If your dialect pronounces it as /ɝb/ it is perfectly natural to say "an herb" (/æn ɝb/) and saying "a herb" (/eɪ ɝb/ or /ə ɝb/) with that pronunciation is incorrect.
      - shredprez 6y ago
        I repeat, good god. I am familiar with the linguistic norms at play here, and if I come across an herb in a grassy meadow, I’ll happily say so. It’s specifically the collision of the dialectal “an” and a slang expression strictly pronounced with a “hard” h that got me. A person is never called an ‘erb, unless the individual speaking is themselves a total herb. In any case, no offense intended to OP! It genuinely made me laugh. And none intended to you either, this exchange has been very HN in the best way.
- dorkwood 6y ago
  It doesn't have a close button, either.
- leonidasv 6y ago
  Not to mention the number of advertisements that take up the whole screen in the middle of the text. That plus the video killed my motivation to continue reading the story.
- pwg 6y ago
  With NoScript (https://noscript.net/ https://noscript.net/) blocking all of the javascript by default, I got no autoplay video and no article coverup at all. I simply got a blog post that I read through from start to finish without anything else getting in the way.
  - devenblake 6y ago
    uBlock Origin worked great too!
- piyush_soni 6y ago
  Firefox Developer Edition, with uBlock origin installed. I don't see anything you said.
- itronitron 6y ago
  Be sure to tell them that is why people like myself don't even bother visiting such sites.
- generalizations 6y ago
  I would love to have a discussion with the person who doesn't browse the web with uBlock Origin (or similar).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - meddlepal 6y ago
    Talk to an iPhone user?
    - bdcravens 6y ago
      iOS has supported ad blocking for a bit.
    - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
      Brave blocks this on iPhone. I’m using it now, even though much of HN hates Brave.
dijit 6y ago
I am genuinely sick to death of people taking up arms in some sort of faction war against their supposed "opponent" technology. I see it everywhere. PlayStation or Xbox! PCMR or Console! MacOS or Windows! iOS or Android! Disturbing tribalism. Liking Apple does not make you cool, not liking Apple does not make you cool. Apple produces hardware and software, it is not a religion. I see so many people taking up arms against Apple as if it's some kind of religious crusade or imperative for the betterment of mankind, while at the same time rallying behind Microsoft (of all companies). I'm guilty of a bit of elitism too, I can't stand Windows and it hurts me to see people using it when I know better things exist (or, better for me at least, I'm one of those pesky linux users) but at the same time: It's a fucking tool, you don't see tradesmen getting all pissy about people buying DeWalt power drills. For the love of all that is good: stop giving a fuck unless it affects you directly.
- pydry 6y ago
  Yeah, I thought that. Though disliking Apple products isn't abnormal, making that part of your identity is sad. Making your preference for "contrasting" Microsoft products (or whatever) part of your identity is even sadder.
- LegitShady 6y ago
  I think it's a combination of human nature and a side effect of marketing. Since neither human nature or marketing are liable to go away any time soon I doubt the team mentality to buying things will either.
  - krick 6y ago
    "Side effect"? Good advertisers do whatever they can to trigger that part of human nature. Actually, Apple's "I'm a Mac" campaign was entirely about this very thing from the very beginning.
- hprotagonist 6y ago
  Item: a woman friend of mine recently told me that she'd broken off a (hitherto) stimulating exchange of e-mail with a young man. At first he had seemed like such an intelligent and interesting guy, she said, but then "he started going all PC-versus-Mac on me." What the hell is going on here? And does the operating system business have a future, or only a past? 1997!
cowmix 6y ago
Now that my kids are officially "grown" (18+), here were/are my tech rules for the house: 1) We (my wife and I) do not want to know any of your passwords. 2) No content filters on any device or router level. 3) Mixed OSes (we had Linux, MacOS and Windows in the house). 4) NEVER share your passwords with friends. 5) Anything you email, txt or post to anyone... consider it public. Nothing online is private. 6) No consoles.
- benbristow 6y ago
  Why no consoles?
  - protomyth 6y ago
    Apparently the GP is part of the "PC Master Race" and will not tolerate "console peasants" in the house. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race
    - cowmix 6y ago
      I don't know all about this PC Master Race stuff. Basically, I wanted my kids to have to maintain, build a system to play games. When my kids were young Minecraft JUST came out. They both learned A LOT about modding early. If they were stuck on consoles they probably would have missed out on all that.
      - brandonmenc 6y ago
        And? "Modding" is like, whatever. I grew up programming PCs in the 80s and 90s but when I look back on it, I didn't really tinker much inside the boxes even though I have mistakenly thought that I did. Dad installed a Sound Blaster Pro I purchased in like 5th grade after I went to bed so that I wouldn't screw up his work PC. Past that, I don't think I even upgraded RAM or a hard drive until I was in my 20s, mostly because they were just too expensive. Had an NES, though. I turned out fine. But I would have hated my dad if he was like, "no NES for you!" while shoving a screwdriver at me.
dilippkumar 6y ago
I wish that a significant portion of people today held the tech industry to such high standards. Imagine the progress we would have made if our industry was forced into making sure that tech is extremely reliable and highly functional. Instead, we get half baked broken things with all notions of quality and craftsmanship completely abandoned to make room for fast iterations.
- toast0 6y ago
  > Imagine the progress we would have made if our industry was forced into making sure that tech is extremely reliable and highly functional. Do you remember the progress of landlines? In 2000 (and beyond), some people were still paying extra per month for touchtone dialing. Extreme reliability comes at a large cost. If everything had to be reliablr before it was released, we'd have a lot fewer things to try, and a harder time deciding what we liked. By shipping half broken stuff all the time, we can figure out what we like, and then make it reliable if it's warranted, or throw it away if that's the right choice.
stiray 6y ago
My father didnt want to have cable tv. On antenna we only got ORF (austrian television) and local one (which sucked). I needed almost 10 years to actually hear how Captain Kirk in Raumschiff Enterprise really sounds (everything is synchronized to german) like. Side effect: I also fluently speak german. And banning social networks is positive for your kids. Also ads.
- kgwgk 6y ago
  > Side effect: I also fluently speak german. May have been useful living in Austria! > everything is synchronized to german I suspect that's not the word you were looking for. PS: I guess that explains it: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronisation_(Film) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronisation_(Film)
  - stiray 6y ago
    He he, true, but we also use that word in native language. Thank you for remark :D
  - mongol 6y ago
    My guess is parent lived in another country bordering to Austria. Italy? Hungary?
    - kgwgk 6y ago
      Ah, that makes sense. I thought it was Austrian + regional/city (and assumed he was a foreigner living temporarily in Austria), but it probably is Austrian + <home country> (could also be Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic; or Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia depending on the epoch).
    - stiray 6y ago
      Slovenia or Yugoslavia at that time.
klyrs 6y ago
In the late 90s, my dad was really mad about me experimenting with Linux on my personal computer which I built from parts bought with money earned at a summer job. It was kinda hilarious. He has zero involvement with microsoft, very little knowledge of computers, and tended to be mildly anti-establishment... and since it was 100% my computer, it had zero impact on his life. It really felt like a "my role is to crack down on my rebellious teenager no matter the cause" situation. Of course, he shut right up when I lined up a sysadmin job starting immediately after graduation.
- Shared404 6y ago
  > when I lined up a sysadmin job starting immediately after graduation. If you don't mind me asking, how were you able to do this? I would like to do this kind of work, but am unsure of how to get into it. I'm perfectly comfortable with Linux, and can hack together tools when needed but haven't had any luck.
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    Such jobs are not as numerous as they used to be. But, basically you chat up owners/managers of local businesses with computers.
  - __s 6y ago
    When you go off defined path, everything becomes highly context dependent. Know people or interview well, preferably both. Apply anywhere & everywhere. View your first few years as a paid internship, ie don't care too much about pay
  - CaliforniaKarl 6y ago
    For what it's worth, here's what happened for me: During Summer at Ohio State, I worked as a "consultant" in the computer lab. The job involved opening/closing the lab, managing the printers, and providing basic assistance to students (we had to know how the subject matter of an intro sequence). During Summer, it was so dead, I somehow found my way to contributing to Bugzilla. Those contributions, plus hanging out in IRC, caused me to be noticed by someone who was looking to hire a Bugzilla person. That eventually led to sysadmin, and later more.
gpapilion 6y ago
This makes me think of this book: https://www.amazon.com/OBD-Obsessive-Branding-Disorder-Illusion/dp/1586487043/ref=nodl_ https://www.amazon.com/OBD-Obsessive-Branding-Disorder-Illus... The author outlined in part of it a move from appeals to ego to appeals to id for marketing, and how this is a more powerful approach since it appeals to sense of belonging. You see that in the fathers commitment to particular brands, and how they define him.
mikeryan 6y ago
Wow - first dial-up in 1997-8. I grew up on the Peninsula, Back when Silicon Valley's northern edge was pretty much the Oracle buildings on Redwood Shores and was just starting my path in the tech industry. One of my first jobs in tech was for Excite@Home in early/mid 1999 - so that was when I went broadband - and never looked back.
rdiddly 6y ago
I'm with the dad. Not necessarily for the specific choices but for making a choice. Author should have waited another 10 years because this is a shallow and still-immature perspective that underappreciates her dad's principle and integrity. Why should a company that demonstrably sucks for you, continue to get your money? (So your teenage daughter can be like the cool kids?) It's called voting with your wallet, and a lot of problems would just vanish if more people did it. If you keep rewarding a company, they assume they're doing it right. And you have this entity in your life that is bullshit, and if you accumulate enough of those, YOU become bullshit. Edits/Addenda: Live your truth. (Once you have your own money that is, because beggars can't be choosers.) "Hmm I can't help but notice that the people this company hired specifically to talk to me are rude AF and my very first contact with them included statements that were verifiably lies." [0] "Hmm this company takes advantage of me by collecting & selling my personal data, some of which I consider private and might not have consented to if I had read the privacy policy." [1] "Hmm this company does provide the service I want from them, but I've heard they treat their female & ethnic-minority employees like shit, don't consider a lot of their workers employees at all, and they seem to break local laws a lot." [2] "Hmm this registrar uses deceptive phraseology in its communications, e.g. referring to an expired domain that I intentionally didn't renew and on which I owe nothing, as an 'overdue invoice.'" [3] [0] Comcast [1] Facebook [2] Uber [3] Namecheap A person for whom principles aren't important, lives with and financially supports things like this. It's not necessarily weak, but it doesn't take any particular strength of character either. Only a tolerance for cognitive dissonance. Someone for whom principles are more important, gets out of that relationship and finds another. Someone for whom principles are paramount, might just do without that product or service entirely, if unable to find a satisfactory provider of it.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  agree 100% and made roughly the same point in a reply to someone else. The father was accused of fanboyism, but my takeaway from the article is just that the father had high expectations and when those expectations weren't met they refused to continue giving them money. If more people were like this, these companies would be better.
- trabant00 6y ago
piyush_soni 6y ago
I am a bit like the author's dad :). But sure, just like everyone we have our own reasons and it's hard to argue against personal preferences.
Zenst 6y ago
Some kids today are lucky was my initial thought, mine wouldn't get a phone-line after the film Wargames came out. Though that era was also the days when a child could buy a knife, matches, all sorts of chemicals and even glue. Oh and chemistry sets with chemicals that would get you upon a terrorist watch-list today :(. Today's kids are with that all in mind - perhaps not as lucky in hindsight.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
historyremade 6y ago
Freedom comes with Price. Junk foods too.
mixmastamyk 6y ago
Tech banned in my house :D - Windows and telemetry-based apps. I do have a VM for a work VPN however. - Google, except the school district forced an exception. - Youtube, unless supervised on a shared anonymous tablet. - Double-click and other advertising sites. - Third-party cookies, and most third-party javascript. - No giving out information to any site, make it up if required. - Alexa etc, wife uses Siri. As you can see, outside entities have forced a number of exceptions. Other additions: - Screen time - dnsmasq whitelist for kids
- formercoder 6y ago
  Maybe the internet is a different place now but if these restrictions were placed on me as a kid I never would have grown up to be who I am today.
  - imesh 6y ago
    There is a chance that OP doesn't want his kids to end up like you though.
    - formercoder 6y ago
      Fair enough, obviously OP has the right to parent as he pleases. I think that my tinkering intuition has led me to many of my professional successes, and this talent was garnered by experimentation with computers as a child.
      - aaomidi 6y ago
        Eh I sometimes wish parents weren't basically given ownership rights over their kids.
        CarbyAu 6y ago
        Yeah. Different people have different values. In the same way people see "free speech" as being a good thing, "free parenting" is similar, both in concept and result. Clearly, some people talk shit and some people parent shit. And the results are as per expectation. But without the mixing pot of variation we wouldn't have the better ways either - and we try as a society to have education(for parents and kids, for speech and parenting) make up the difference. And worse come to worse, there is the unfortunate need for Child Services, however that works out...
knolax 6y ago
> Unsurprisingly, the first mantra my dad imposed on everyone was (in the voice of Faye Dunaway) No. Apple. Products. Ever! As someone who has to maintain my extended family's fleet of outdated apple products. I can only daydream.
- jozzy-james 6y ago
  just be glad it's not windows XP
chmod775 6y ago
Off-Topic: There's two misplaced or missing words in just the first paragraph of that article - the sort of thing that happens when you're going back and rephrasing things. I was getting ready to enjoy a good story, but was immediately punished for not just skimming instead. These mistakes happen to be really easy to catch for everyone but the author himself and they will trip up specifically those readers who are trying to pay attention. Since even major professional online publications clearly don't hire editors anymore, maybe they should at least adopt a policy of having co-workers proofread.
- indigodaddy 6y ago
  I noticed the exact same thing immediately. Turned me off a bit to the article, and the mistakes appeared to continue throughout.
walrus01 6y ago
Tech banned in my house: - amazon alexa anything - any smart speaker that uses persistent voice recognition (ok google etc) - things like thermostats, security systems/cameras (ring doorbells, etc) that require a functioning WAN connection and cloud based services. anything you would find here: https://twitter.com/internetofshit?lang=en https://twitter.com/internetofshit?lang=en - smart lightbulbs and other "internet of things" devices that require a connection to a cloud based service, anything of this category that I can't completely admin and control on my LAN. - internet of things consumer devices that require the use of a manufacturer-proprietary android or ios app to set up and configure on the home wifi. - consumer electronics devices that for some unknown reason require a proprietary shaped connector/charging cable. if it doesn't charge from microusb or usb-c I'm very unlikely to buy it. in an era when even my road bicycle front and rear lights charge from standard microusb this should be obvious. - things that are obviously designed to be throwaway with no way to ever economically replace the battery. such as apple airpods. anything that's given a 1/10 or 2/10 repairability score by ifixit, such as the microsoft surface notebook/tablet that is entirely glued together. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+2+Teardown/121471 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+2+Teardown/121471 - cloud managed wifi APs and routers - wifi mesh extenders and other things that create a CSMA half duplex RF hell, for network reliability and performance reasons. If I need an additional AP somewhere I can give it a 1000BaseT 802.3af/at wired connection back to the home core switch. - Any ISP-provided all-in-one cablemodem/router/wifi device that I can't fully control. I have a DOCSIS3 modem that is a dumb layer 2 bridge with no routing or wifi functions, and my own router that I control. - any of the microsoft cloud-managed login accounts for windows 10 PCs - any consumer electronics/appliance device that has embedded android in it unlikely to receive operating system/updates after 2 or 3 years. For example fridges with a giant android tablet built into their door. Not going to spend $2000 on a fridge that might have a 10-15 year service lifespan but the operating system on the tablet will be woefully out of date and risky to put on the Internet after 5 years. This also means no "internet of things" washing machines or similar. Just a couple of weeks ago I saw fridges for sale with Android 7 on them. - apple icloud - zoom, due to its many prior egregious security vulnerabilities and the location of 80%+ of its developers - anything else that is legally obligated to be backdoored by the ministry of state security (wechat, alipay, tiktok, etc)
- 6y ago
aaomidi 6y ago
Rules for my kids: If you're over 10 years of age you should know what your limits are. I'm always going to be here for advice and help to get yourself back up from an accident or something that went wrong. I won't block content. I won't demand access to their phones. I won't shame them in any way. I'm also planning on being sex and body positive. Nudity isn't inherently sexual and shame is a social construct. Nothing should be forced on my kids and unless they actually agree with me on plans I won't force them to do anything.
- sukilot 6y ago
  That's putting your children in grave danger from all manner of criminals online.
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    Grave danger? Of what? I suspect most of HN had free rein of the internet in their formative years. I’m sure I did a lot of stuff my parents wouldn’t have been thrilled about but I was never in grave danger (or any danger really) and I learned a ton. I’d be far more concerned with the potential lasting damage from a kid’s dumb social media posts than crime.
    - tjr225 6y ago
      You can’t seriously compare the internet of even 10 years ago to the internet of today. You can go to reddit right now and find a video of some right wing whacko shooting someone to death on the front page. That content was available then, sure. It wasn’t blasted right at you though.
      - dagenix 6y ago
        When I was growing up, I had to walk uphill both going to and coming from school.
        waste_monk 6y ago
wombatmobile 6y ago
My parents banned toy guns. Not all parents did. A couple of kids at school were really into them. I wonder how they turned out.
- samatman 6y ago
  Probably just fine. My mother hated toy guns; my father insisted we be allowed to play with Nerf. Friends of the family weren't allowed toy guns at all, but the mother finally gave up: one morning, she saw her sons chew toast into the shape of pistols and chase each other around the table shouting "pew! pew!"
GoofballJones 6y ago
I just use technology. I never was a windows kind of person, just didn't gell with it. I was more unix. I know that system. I know what it does and why it does things. I could have done that with windows, but just never wanted to. I guess I was more of a tinkerer than the author of this piece, which is why I went with Linux. And I'm talking Linux when Linus first put it out there decades ago. Before that, I tinkered with DOS, of course. Windows 3.1. OS/2. Windows NT. But, like I said, it just didn't gell with me. Linux was where it was, and still is. Yes, I've gotten Macs because again, with OS X, they were unix and I knew the underlaying structure. I didn't really find the need to install a gaming OS like Windows, because I'm not a gamer and that's basically all I saw it offering. And now? I don't allow any Google products in my home. I don't even use Chrome nor any Chromium derived browser. And absolutely no Android. No Amazon Alexa anything. No "smart" devices at all. No "Internet of Things" BS.
vmception 6y ago
Skimmed the article, whats the list?
sunstone 6y ago
Also a past hardware engineer. Also I've never bought anything Apple. And also never bought anything Microsoft for about 20 years (unless the license came with a computer). I'm not dogmatic about tech though, I just don't care for companies telling me what I can and cannot do.
jasoneckert 6y ago
When I was growing up, my parents adhered to Douglas Adams' rules of technology (and I think many still do today): 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- neilv 6y ago
  I think that's a clever bit by Douglas Adams, and there's some truth to it in some contexts, but I hate to see it voted to the top on HN specifically. The reason is that our industry right now doesn't make a secret about widespread, accepted ageism. And a common talking-point defense of it is "not learning new technologies".
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - tempestn 6y ago
    I think it's clever because we all (at least those of us over 35) recognize this tendency in our own thinking, at least to some extent. It certainly doesn't mean we reject or are incapable of learning new technologies. It's more about introspection—realizing for instance that the fact I have little use for TikTok is more about me than it is about TikTok. Personally I don't feel it needs to have any ageist connotation.
    - blub 6y ago
      It's not that simple. A lot of technology today is manipulating or is spying on its users.
- ARandomerDude 6y ago
  Downvote for trashing your parents.
Joof 6y ago
My dad shut off the internet when he went to bed every night. At 7:00-8:00 PM. I presume so I would sleep? 'Videogames ruined your life' was what I heard constantly. For a while, I had a timer click it back on and off. At some point I learned kali linux just enough to crack the neighbor's WiFi. There was also the time my BIOS was locked, but I found out there was a jumper circuit on the MB that reset it. I'm now a very successful software engineer with a long history of devop experience. Shrug
lsh123 6y ago
My house rules (I have 3 kids): - do whatever you want on your devices, but you break it - you fix it (your brothers might help you but it’s up to them); - on school days, all internet ends at 10pm, but you are welcome to hack into my firewall; - everything you post online is public and saved forever; - use generated passwords and 1password for all passwords and all password recovery questions.
- jmull3n 6y ago
  This is definitely the most reasonable response in this thread.
- teddyh 6y ago
  > - everything you post online is public and saved forever; That’s a useful thing to know, but may be a bad thing to truly internalize: “You had to live – did live, from habit that became instinct – in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.”
- ivan1783 6y ago
  How do you deal with phone data connections?
lvturner 6y ago
Maybe it's just the mood I'm in this morning, but this article just made me feel that the author's father had some serious mental health issues. If anything, I would say it was more about that than the tech bans.
fisherjeff 6y ago
As someone who had a child later in life, I like to pretend that being a dad isn’t a fundamental part of my identity. That, mostly, I’m the same person I always was, except now I just happen to have a 19-month-old. But then I read pieces like this and find myself deeply, almost inexplicably, moved and realize that no, I’m definitely a dad.
jtbayly 6y ago
Way too many typos to bother continuing to read this. Very confusing.
II2II 6y ago
Wow, what a bizarre world to grow up in. I can understand avoiding certain products because other products are better or because of something that contradicts one's values. Yet the author's father seems to be doing so because he held grudges and had a weird sense of brand loyalty. Gateway, of all companies! Then again, I grew up in a family that went to computer dealers and had systems built. There was no real brand loyalty there, not even loyalty to a particular dealer, but it taught me the value in a custom built PC. That upbringing reflects how I choose products today. I would much rather spend an hour shopping for components and an hour putting them together than spending several hours shopping for a computer. My recent experience trying to find an acceptable laptop has driven me to the point where I probably won't buy a laptop in the years to come. I'm the type of person who won't touch a laptop unless the RAM and storage can be upgraded, as well as knowing what type of CPU and GPU it has. Having to dig around support sites or even third party sites to get such information does not impress me. Granted, finding the information often reveals why vendors are so hesitant to provide it. (The performance of your $800 laptop is worse than my middle-of-the pack eight year old PC?! Yeah, that's comparing desktops to laptops, but it's an eight year old desktop!) But that's different. It's based upon my wants and (perceived) needs as well as the information currently available. If things change in a few years time, the decision will change with it. It's not because of a problem that was fixed several years prior. It's not driven by a misguided sense of brand loyalty. Edit: missed word, extra word. Sigh.
throwawaynothx 6y ago
Just a point... MP3 players existed before ipods... they were also incredibly cheap and easy to add Mp3's to, unlike Ipods with their Itunes. just sayin
- bitwize 6y ago
  Yeah, man. Screw the iPod. No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
SergeAx 6y ago
Sony's proprietary Memory Stick bugged me to the extent that I banned anything with this logo from my life. And of course no Apple.
dziadziasmerf 6y ago
This reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnqAXuLZlaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnqAXuLZlaE
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

144 points by BerislavLopac 6y ago

I would love to have a discussion with the person(s) who think that having an autoplay video pop up and cover 40% of the article I’m trying to read is a good idea.

nkrisc 6y ago
They'll just show you the chart that shows the resulting increase to ad revenue and then put their fingers in their ears.
selectodude 6y ago
https://www.greathillpartners.com/ceos/jim-spanfeller/ https://www.greathillpartners.com/ceos/jim-spanfeller/ Shoot him an email. Maybe ask him why he's such an herb.
- shredprez 6y ago
  "An herb", good god. But completely agree. For anyone who hasn't followed what's happening to Gawker's corpse, this is worth a read: https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-adults-in-the-room-1837487584 https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-adults-in-the-room-183...
  - eindiran 6y ago
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/herb https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/herb Note the pronunciation given for US and Canadian English, with the optional /h/: /(h)ɝb/ If your dialect pronounces it as /ɝb/ it is perfectly natural to say "an herb" (/æn ɝb/) and saying "a herb" (/eɪ ɝb/ or /ə ɝb/) with that pronunciation is incorrect.
    - shredprez 6y ago
      I repeat, good god. I am familiar with the linguistic norms at play here, and if I come across an herb in a grassy meadow, I’ll happily say so. It’s specifically the collision of the dialectal “an” and a slang expression strictly pronounced with a “hard” h that got me. A person is never called an ‘erb, unless the individual speaking is themselves a total herb. In any case, no offense intended to OP! It genuinely made me laugh. And none intended to you either, this exchange has been very HN in the best way.
dorkwood 6y ago
It doesn't have a close button, either.
leonidasv 6y ago
Not to mention the number of advertisements that take up the whole screen in the middle of the text. That plus the video killed my motivation to continue reading the story.
pwg 6y ago
With NoScript (https://noscript.net/ https://noscript.net/) blocking all of the javascript by default, I got no autoplay video and no article coverup at all. I simply got a blog post that I read through from start to finish without anything else getting in the way.
- devenblake 6y ago
  uBlock Origin worked great too!
piyush_soni 6y ago
Firefox Developer Edition, with uBlock origin installed. I don't see anything you said.
itronitron 6y ago
Be sure to tell them that is why people like myself don't even bother visiting such sites.
generalizations 6y ago
I would love to have a discussion with the person who doesn't browse the web with uBlock Origin (or similar).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- meddlepal 6y ago
  Talk to an iPhone user?
  - bdcravens 6y ago
    iOS has supported ad blocking for a bit.
  - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    Brave blocks this on iPhone. I’m using it now, even though much of HN hates Brave.

dijit 6y ago

I am genuinely sick to death of people taking up arms in some sort of faction war against their supposed "opponent" technology. I see it everywhere. PlayStation or Xbox! PCMR or Console! MacOS or Windows! iOS or Android! Disturbing tribalism. Liking Apple does not make you cool, not liking Apple does not make you cool. Apple produces hardware and software, it is not a religion. I see so many people taking up arms against Apple as if it's some kind of religious crusade or imperative for the betterment of mankind, while at the same time rallying behind Microsoft (of all companies). I'm guilty of a bit of elitism too, I can't stand Windows and it hurts me to see people using it when I know better things exist (or, better for me at least, I'm one of those pesky linux users) but at the same time: It's a fucking tool, you don't see tradesmen getting all pissy about people buying DeWalt power drills. For the love of all that is good: stop giving a fuck unless it affects you directly.

pydry 6y ago
Yeah, I thought that. Though disliking Apple products isn't abnormal, making that part of your identity is sad. Making your preference for "contrasting" Microsoft products (or whatever) part of your identity is even sadder.
LegitShady 6y ago
I think it's a combination of human nature and a side effect of marketing. Since neither human nature or marketing are liable to go away any time soon I doubt the team mentality to buying things will either.
- krick 6y ago
  "Side effect"? Good advertisers do whatever they can to trigger that part of human nature. Actually, Apple's "I'm a Mac" campaign was entirely about this very thing from the very beginning.
hprotagonist 6y ago
Item: a woman friend of mine recently told me that she'd broken off a (hitherto) stimulating exchange of e-mail with a young man. At first he had seemed like such an intelligent and interesting guy, she said, but then "he started going all PC-versus-Mac on me." What the hell is going on here? And does the operating system business have a future, or only a past? 1997!

cowmix 6y ago

Now that my kids are officially "grown" (18+), here were/are my tech rules for the house: 1) We (my wife and I) do not want to know any of your passwords. 2) No content filters on any device or router level. 3) Mixed OSes (we had Linux, MacOS and Windows in the house). 4) NEVER share your passwords with friends. 5) Anything you email, txt or post to anyone... consider it public. Nothing online is private. 6) No consoles.

benbristow 6y ago
Why no consoles?
- protomyth 6y ago
  Apparently the GP is part of the "PC Master Race" and will not tolerate "console peasants" in the house. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race
  - cowmix 6y ago
    I don't know all about this PC Master Race stuff. Basically, I wanted my kids to have to maintain, build a system to play games. When my kids were young Minecraft JUST came out. They both learned A LOT about modding early. If they were stuck on consoles they probably would have missed out on all that.
    - brandonmenc 6y ago
      And? "Modding" is like, whatever. I grew up programming PCs in the 80s and 90s but when I look back on it, I didn't really tinker much inside the boxes even though I have mistakenly thought that I did. Dad installed a Sound Blaster Pro I purchased in like 5th grade after I went to bed so that I wouldn't screw up his work PC. Past that, I don't think I even upgraded RAM or a hard drive until I was in my 20s, mostly because they were just too expensive. Had an NES, though. I turned out fine. But I would have hated my dad if he was like, "no NES for you!" while shoving a screwdriver at me.

dilippkumar 6y ago

I wish that a significant portion of people today held the tech industry to such high standards. Imagine the progress we would have made if our industry was forced into making sure that tech is extremely reliable and highly functional. Instead, we get half baked broken things with all notions of quality and craftsmanship completely abandoned to make room for fast iterations.

toast0 6y ago
> Imagine the progress we would have made if our industry was forced into making sure that tech is extremely reliable and highly functional. Do you remember the progress of landlines? In 2000 (and beyond), some people were still paying extra per month for touchtone dialing. Extreme reliability comes at a large cost. If everything had to be reliablr before it was released, we'd have a lot fewer things to try, and a harder time deciding what we liked. By shipping half broken stuff all the time, we can figure out what we like, and then make it reliable if it's warranted, or throw it away if that's the right choice.

stiray 6y ago

My father didnt want to have cable tv. On antenna we only got ORF (austrian television) and local one (which sucked). I needed almost 10 years to actually hear how Captain Kirk in Raumschiff Enterprise really sounds (everything is synchronized to german) like. Side effect: I also fluently speak german. And banning social networks is positive for your kids. Also ads.

kgwgk 6y ago
> Side effect: I also fluently speak german. May have been useful living in Austria! > everything is synchronized to german I suspect that's not the word you were looking for. PS: I guess that explains it: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronisation_(Film) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronisation_(Film)
- stiray 6y ago
  He he, true, but we also use that word in native language. Thank you for remark :D
- mongol 6y ago
  My guess is parent lived in another country bordering to Austria. Italy? Hungary?
  - kgwgk 6y ago
    Ah, that makes sense. I thought it was Austrian + regional/city (and assumed he was a foreigner living temporarily in Austria), but it probably is Austrian + <home country> (could also be Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic; or Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia depending on the epoch).
  - stiray 6y ago
    Slovenia or Yugoslavia at that time.

klyrs 6y ago

In the late 90s, my dad was really mad about me experimenting with Linux on my personal computer which I built from parts bought with money earned at a summer job. It was kinda hilarious. He has zero involvement with microsoft, very little knowledge of computers, and tended to be mildly anti-establishment... and since it was 100% my computer, it had zero impact on his life. It really felt like a "my role is to crack down on my rebellious teenager no matter the cause" situation. Of course, he shut right up when I lined up a sysadmin job starting immediately after graduation.

Shared404 6y ago
> when I lined up a sysadmin job starting immediately after graduation. If you don't mind me asking, how were you able to do this? I would like to do this kind of work, but am unsure of how to get into it. I'm perfectly comfortable with Linux, and can hack together tools when needed but haven't had any luck.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Such jobs are not as numerous as they used to be. But, basically you chat up owners/managers of local businesses with computers.
- __s 6y ago
  When you go off defined path, everything becomes highly context dependent. Know people or interview well, preferably both. Apply anywhere & everywhere. View your first few years as a paid internship, ie don't care too much about pay
- CaliforniaKarl 6y ago
  For what it's worth, here's what happened for me: During Summer at Ohio State, I worked as a "consultant" in the computer lab. The job involved opening/closing the lab, managing the printers, and providing basic assistance to students (we had to know how the subject matter of an intro sequence). During Summer, it was so dead, I somehow found my way to contributing to Bugzilla. Those contributions, plus hanging out in IRC, caused me to be noticed by someone who was looking to hire a Bugzilla person. That eventually led to sysadmin, and later more.

gpapilion 6y ago

This makes me think of this book: https://www.amazon.com/OBD-Obsessive-Branding-Disorder-Illusion/dp/1586487043/ref=nodl_ https://www.amazon.com/OBD-Obsessive-Branding-Disorder-Illus... The author outlined in part of it a move from appeals to ego to appeals to id for marketing, and how this is a more powerful approach since it appeals to sense of belonging. You see that in the fathers commitment to particular brands, and how they define him.

mikeryan 6y ago

Wow - first dial-up in 1997-8. I grew up on the Peninsula, Back when Silicon Valley's northern edge was pretty much the Oracle buildings on Redwood Shores and was just starting my path in the tech industry. One of my first jobs in tech was for Excite@Home in early/mid 1999 - so that was when I went broadband - and never looked back.

rdiddly 6y ago

I'm with the dad. Not necessarily for the specific choices but for making a choice. Author should have waited another 10 years because this is a shallow and still-immature perspective that underappreciates her dad's principle and integrity. Why should a company that demonstrably sucks for you, continue to get your money? (So your teenage daughter can be like the cool kids?) It's called voting with your wallet, and a lot of problems would just vanish if more people did it. If you keep rewarding a company, they assume they're doing it right. And you have this entity in your life that is bullshit, and if you accumulate enough of those, YOU become bullshit. Edits/Addenda: Live your truth. (Once you have your own money that is, because beggars can't be choosers.) "Hmm I can't help but notice that the people this company hired specifically to talk to me are rude AF and my very first contact with them included statements that were verifiably lies." [0] "Hmm this company takes advantage of me by collecting & selling my personal data, some of which I consider private and might not have consented to if I had read the privacy policy." [1] "Hmm this company does provide the service I want from them, but I've heard they treat their female & ethnic-minority employees like shit, don't consider a lot of their workers employees at all, and they seem to break local laws a lot." [2] "Hmm this registrar uses deceptive phraseology in its communications, e.g. referring to an expired domain that I intentionally didn't renew and on which I owe nothing, as an 'overdue invoice.'" [3] [0] Comcast [1] Facebook [2] Uber [3] Namecheap A person for whom principles aren't important, lives with and financially supports things like this. It's not necessarily weak, but it doesn't take any particular strength of character either. Only a tolerance for cognitive dissonance. Someone for whom principles are more important, gets out of that relationship and finds another. Someone for whom principles are paramount, might just do without that product or service entirely, if unable to find a satisfactory provider of it.

RandoHolmes 6y ago
agree 100% and made roughly the same point in a reply to someone else. The father was accused of fanboyism, but my takeaway from the article is just that the father had high expectations and when those expectations weren't met they refused to continue giving them money. If more people were like this, these companies would be better.
trabant00 6y ago

piyush_soni 6y ago

I am a bit like the author's dad :). But sure, just like everyone we have our own reasons and it's hard to argue against personal preferences.

Zenst 6y ago

Some kids today are lucky was my initial thought, mine wouldn't get a phone-line after the film Wargames came out. Though that era was also the days when a child could buy a knife, matches, all sorts of chemicals and even glue. Oh and chemistry sets with chemicals that would get you upon a terrorist watch-list today :(. Today's kids are with that all in mind - perhaps not as lucky in hindsight.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

historyremade 6y ago

Freedom comes with Price. Junk foods too.

mixmastamyk 6y ago

Tech banned in my house :D - Windows and telemetry-based apps. I do have a VM for a work VPN however. - Google, except the school district forced an exception. - Youtube, unless supervised on a shared anonymous tablet. - Double-click and other advertising sites. - Third-party cookies, and most third-party javascript. - No giving out information to any site, make it up if required. - Alexa etc, wife uses Siri. As you can see, outside entities have forced a number of exceptions. Other additions: - Screen time - dnsmasq whitelist for kids

formercoder 6y ago
Maybe the internet is a different place now but if these restrictions were placed on me as a kid I never would have grown up to be who I am today.
- imesh 6y ago
  There is a chance that OP doesn't want his kids to end up like you though.
  - formercoder 6y ago
    Fair enough, obviously OP has the right to parent as he pleases. I think that my tinkering intuition has led me to many of my professional successes, and this talent was garnered by experimentation with computers as a child.
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      Eh I sometimes wish parents weren't basically given ownership rights over their kids.
      - CarbyAu 6y ago
        Yeah. Different people have different values. In the same way people see "free speech" as being a good thing, "free parenting" is similar, both in concept and result. Clearly, some people talk shit and some people parent shit. And the results are as per expectation. But without the mixing pot of variation we wouldn't have the better ways either - and we try as a society to have education(for parents and kids, for speech and parenting) make up the difference. And worse come to worse, there is the unfortunate need for Child Services, however that works out...

knolax 6y ago

> Unsurprisingly, the first mantra my dad imposed on everyone was (in the voice of Faye Dunaway) No. Apple. Products. Ever! As someone who has to maintain my extended family's fleet of outdated apple products. I can only daydream.

jozzy-james 6y ago
just be glad it's not windows XP

chmod775 6y ago

Off-Topic: There's two misplaced or missing words in just the first paragraph of that article - the sort of thing that happens when you're going back and rephrasing things. I was getting ready to enjoy a good story, but was immediately punished for not just skimming instead. These mistakes happen to be really easy to catch for everyone but the author himself and they will trip up specifically those readers who are trying to pay attention. Since even major professional online publications clearly don't hire editors anymore, maybe they should at least adopt a policy of having co-workers proofread.

indigodaddy 6y ago
I noticed the exact same thing immediately. Turned me off a bit to the article, and the mistakes appeared to continue throughout.

walrus01 6y ago

Tech banned in my house: - amazon alexa anything - any smart speaker that uses persistent voice recognition (ok google etc) - things like thermostats, security systems/cameras (ring doorbells, etc) that require a functioning WAN connection and cloud based services. anything you would find here: https://twitter.com/internetofshit?lang=en https://twitter.com/internetofshit?lang=en - smart lightbulbs and other "internet of things" devices that require a connection to a cloud based service, anything of this category that I can't completely admin and control on my LAN. - internet of things consumer devices that require the use of a manufacturer-proprietary android or ios app to set up and configure on the home wifi. - consumer electronics devices that for some unknown reason require a proprietary shaped connector/charging cable. if it doesn't charge from microusb or usb-c I'm very unlikely to buy it. in an era when even my road bicycle front and rear lights charge from standard microusb this should be obvious. - things that are obviously designed to be throwaway with no way to ever economically replace the battery. such as apple airpods. anything that's given a 1/10 or 2/10 repairability score by ifixit, such as the microsoft surface notebook/tablet that is entirely glued together. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+2+Teardown/121471 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+2+Teardown/121471 - cloud managed wifi APs and routers - wifi mesh extenders and other things that create a CSMA half duplex RF hell, for network reliability and performance reasons. If I need an additional AP somewhere I can give it a 1000BaseT 802.3af/at wired connection back to the home core switch. - Any ISP-provided all-in-one cablemodem/router/wifi device that I can't fully control. I have a DOCSIS3 modem that is a dumb layer 2 bridge with no routing or wifi functions, and my own router that I control. - any of the microsoft cloud-managed login accounts for windows 10 PCs - any consumer electronics/appliance device that has embedded android in it unlikely to receive operating system/updates after 2 or 3 years. For example fridges with a giant android tablet built into their door. Not going to spend $2000 on a fridge that might have a 10-15 year service lifespan but the operating system on the tablet will be woefully out of date and risky to put on the Internet after 5 years. This also means no "internet of things" washing machines or similar. Just a couple of weeks ago I saw fridges for sale with Android 7 on them. - apple icloud - zoom, due to its many prior egregious security vulnerabilities and the location of 80%+ of its developers - anything else that is legally obligated to be backdoored by the ministry of state security (wechat, alipay, tiktok, etc)

6y ago

aaomidi 6y ago

Rules for my kids: If you're over 10 years of age you should know what your limits are. I'm always going to be here for advice and help to get yourself back up from an accident or something that went wrong. I won't block content. I won't demand access to their phones. I won't shame them in any way. I'm also planning on being sex and body positive. Nudity isn't inherently sexual and shame is a social construct. Nothing should be forced on my kids and unless they actually agree with me on plans I won't force them to do anything.

sukilot 6y ago
That's putting your children in grave danger from all manner of criminals online.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  Grave danger? Of what? I suspect most of HN had free rein of the internet in their formative years. I’m sure I did a lot of stuff my parents wouldn’t have been thrilled about but I was never in grave danger (or any danger really) and I learned a ton. I’d be far more concerned with the potential lasting damage from a kid’s dumb social media posts than crime.
  - tjr225 6y ago
    You can’t seriously compare the internet of even 10 years ago to the internet of today. You can go to reddit right now and find a video of some right wing whacko shooting someone to death on the front page. That content was available then, sure. It wasn’t blasted right at you though.
    - dagenix 6y ago
      When I was growing up, I had to walk uphill both going to and coming from school.
      - waste_monk 6y ago

wombatmobile 6y ago

My parents banned toy guns. Not all parents did. A couple of kids at school were really into them. I wonder how they turned out.

samatman 6y ago
Probably just fine. My mother hated toy guns; my father insisted we be allowed to play with Nerf. Friends of the family weren't allowed toy guns at all, but the mother finally gave up: one morning, she saw her sons chew toast into the shape of pistols and chase each other around the table shouting "pew! pew!"

GoofballJones 6y ago

I just use technology. I never was a windows kind of person, just didn't gell with it. I was more unix. I know that system. I know what it does and why it does things. I could have done that with windows, but just never wanted to. I guess I was more of a tinkerer than the author of this piece, which is why I went with Linux. And I'm talking Linux when Linus first put it out there decades ago. Before that, I tinkered with DOS, of course. Windows 3.1. OS/2. Windows NT. But, like I said, it just didn't gell with me. Linux was where it was, and still is. Yes, I've gotten Macs because again, with OS X, they were unix and I knew the underlaying structure. I didn't really find the need to install a gaming OS like Windows, because I'm not a gamer and that's basically all I saw it offering. And now? I don't allow any Google products in my home. I don't even use Chrome nor any Chromium derived browser. And absolutely no Android. No Amazon Alexa anything. No "smart" devices at all. No "Internet of Things" BS.

vmception 6y ago

Skimmed the article, whats the list?

sunstone 6y ago

Also a past hardware engineer. Also I've never bought anything Apple. And also never bought anything Microsoft for about 20 years (unless the license came with a computer). I'm not dogmatic about tech though, I just don't care for companies telling me what I can and cannot do.

jasoneckert 6y ago

When I was growing up, my parents adhered to Douglas Adams' rules of technology (and I think many still do today): 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

neilv 6y ago
I think that's a clever bit by Douglas Adams, and there's some truth to it in some contexts, but I hate to see it voted to the top on HN specifically. The reason is that our industry right now doesn't make a secret about widespread, accepted ageism. And a common talking-point defense of it is "not learning new technologies".
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tempestn 6y ago
  I think it's clever because we all (at least those of us over 35) recognize this tendency in our own thinking, at least to some extent. It certainly doesn't mean we reject or are incapable of learning new technologies. It's more about introspection—realizing for instance that the fact I have little use for TikTok is more about me than it is about TikTok. Personally I don't feel it needs to have any ageist connotation.
  - blub 6y ago
    It's not that simple. A lot of technology today is manipulating or is spying on its users.
ARandomerDude 6y ago
Downvote for trashing your parents.

Joof 6y ago

My dad shut off the internet when he went to bed every night. At 7:00-8:00 PM. I presume so I would sleep? 'Videogames ruined your life' was what I heard constantly. For a while, I had a timer click it back on and off. At some point I learned kali linux just enough to crack the neighbor's WiFi. There was also the time my BIOS was locked, but I found out there was a jumper circuit on the MB that reset it. I'm now a very successful software engineer with a long history of devop experience. Shrug

lsh123 6y ago

My house rules (I have 3 kids): - do whatever you want on your devices, but you break it - you fix it (your brothers might help you but it’s up to them); - on school days, all internet ends at 10pm, but you are welcome to hack into my firewall; - everything you post online is public and saved forever; - use generated passwords and 1password for all passwords and all password recovery questions.

jmull3n 6y ago
This is definitely the most reasonable response in this thread.
teddyh 6y ago
> - everything you post online is public and saved forever; That’s a useful thing to know, but may be a bad thing to truly internalize: “You had to live – did live, from habit that became instinct – in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.”
ivan1783 6y ago
How do you deal with phone data connections?

lvturner 6y ago

Maybe it's just the mood I'm in this morning, but this article just made me feel that the author's father had some serious mental health issues. If anything, I would say it was more about that than the tech bans.

fisherjeff 6y ago

As someone who had a child later in life, I like to pretend that being a dad isn’t a fundamental part of my identity. That, mostly, I’m the same person I always was, except now I just happen to have a 19-month-old. But then I read pieces like this and find myself deeply, almost inexplicably, moved and realize that no, I’m definitely a dad.

jtbayly 6y ago

Way too many typos to bother continuing to read this. Very confusing.

II2II 6y ago

Wow, what a bizarre world to grow up in. I can understand avoiding certain products because other products are better or because of something that contradicts one's values. Yet the author's father seems to be doing so because he held grudges and had a weird sense of brand loyalty. Gateway, of all companies! Then again, I grew up in a family that went to computer dealers and had systems built. There was no real brand loyalty there, not even loyalty to a particular dealer, but it taught me the value in a custom built PC. That upbringing reflects how I choose products today. I would much rather spend an hour shopping for components and an hour putting them together than spending several hours shopping for a computer. My recent experience trying to find an acceptable laptop has driven me to the point where I probably won't buy a laptop in the years to come. I'm the type of person who won't touch a laptop unless the RAM and storage can be upgraded, as well as knowing what type of CPU and GPU it has. Having to dig around support sites or even third party sites to get such information does not impress me. Granted, finding the information often reveals why vendors are so hesitant to provide it. (The performance of your $800 laptop is worse than my middle-of-the pack eight year old PC?! Yeah, that's comparing desktops to laptops, but it's an eight year old desktop!) But that's different. It's based upon my wants and (perceived) needs as well as the information currently available. If things change in a few years time, the decision will change with it. It's not because of a problem that was fixed several years prior. It's not driven by a misguided sense of brand loyalty. Edit: missed word, extra word. Sigh.

throwawaynothx 6y ago

Just a point... MP3 players existed before ipods... they were also incredibly cheap and easy to add Mp3's to, unlike Ipods with their Itunes. just sayin

bitwize 6y ago
Yeah, man. Screw the iPod. No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

SergeAx 6y ago

Sony's proprietary Memory Stick bugged me to the extent that I banned anything with this logo from my life. And of course no Apple.

dziadziasmerf 6y ago

This reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnqAXuLZlaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnqAXuLZlaE

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]