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It's true for every video game console, which have run to up to $600. I'm not sure if $400 makes that much of a difference.
by mcphage 6y ago
It's true for every video game console, which have run to up to $600. I'm not sure if $400 makes that much of a difference.
- Causality1 6y agoA game console is not a general-purpose computer.
- yladiz 6y agoWhat is the definition of "general purpose computer"?
- Causality1 6y agoOne that is advertised as not constrained to a single genre of use. Game consoles are for entertainment. Consumption. That's why I can say "game console" and you know exactly what I'm talking about. Smartphones are for anything and everything. "There's an app for that."
- JiNCMG 6y agoNot a legal classification.
- Causality1 6y agoI'm making a moral argument, not a legal one. Legally Apple can do whatever they want and I give Epic's lawsuit a very low chance of doing anything at all.
- uberduper 6y agoI can make calls from my xbox. I can create and upload content. Check the weather...
- sagichmal 6y agoNeither are phones.
- thedracle 6y agoMaybe it shouldn't be true for every video game console. But even then --- a mobile phone has analogues with other computing devices that are more open.
- ifmpx 6y agoVideo game consoles shouldn't be locked down either.
- edude03 6y agoIn the case of game consoles though, they're essentially general purpose PCs that are sold to under cost with the expectation that they'll make their money back on game sales. I think that's a fair assumption, and of course if game consoles weren't locked down it would open the doors for people to get x compute power for less than it would be worth otherwise. Whether you agree with that model or not, it's definitely different than the iPhone model where you are paying full price for the hardware, but are limited in what software you can run on it.
- chongli 6y agoNintendo tends not to sell their consoles at a loss. People criticize them for using older hardware but they make a profit on every unit sold plus their first party titles drive the console sales to a large degree. If Microsoft and Sony could no longer take a cut of all software sales like Apple does, they’d simply be forced to adapt their business model, perhaps to something similar to Nintendo’s. Gamers would either have to pay full price for modern hardware (less volume discounts) or otherwise settle for older parts. Microsoft and Sony would have to focus a lot more on bringing top developers in-house with exclusive publishing contracts. Life would go on.
- limomium 6y agoUnder cost? My understanding is that consoles cost MORE than an equivalent self-built PC, and that the expectation that sells them is the guarantee that the games will WORK. On an actual PC, there's no guarantee that any software works with your particular configuration. That is, consoles standardize system specs, and include a markup reflecting that.
- edude03 6y ago> consoles standardize system specs, and include a markup reflecting that That's an interesting take that I didn't consider - that console manufacturer can charge money for the guarantee that the games will work. However, from a quick google, two sites [0][1] have tried to build a PC with the same specs as the PS4 Pro ($400) and came up to ~700. [0]: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/we-built-a-pc-using-ps4-pro-specs-how-does-it-perf/1100-6443491/ https://www.gamespot.com/articles/we-built-a-pc-using-ps4-pr... [1]: https://modcrash.com/the-ps4-equivalent-pc-build/ https://modcrash.com/the-ps4-equivalent-pc-build/
- rpdillon 6y agoGame consoles are for entertainment. Phones run our lives. There is a difference in practice, though perhaps not in theory.
- bergstromm466 6y agoYour game console isn't a pocket-sized multi-purpose computing device with a camera, GPS and more...
- mcphage 6y agoSome of them are that and more.
- RonanTheGrey 6y agoI don't check my console 75 times a day. There are no studies that demonstrate the absolute ubiquity and irreplaceable nature of a gaming console; there are for phones. I don't order a pizza with it. Or check my email. Or call Uber. Or read HN. Or take pictures of my kids. Or make phone calls. Or check social media (well... I don't... but over 3 billion do). Or... There's a way that a "smart phone" (more accurately, a palm-sized computer that happens to make phone calls) is a general computing device - and a critical component of modern life in Western civilization -- that a gaming console is not.
- pjmlp 6y agoYou might not do it, yet all of that has been possible with handhelds for the last 15 years.
- bergstromm466 6y agoYeah but you would have been on your own. It was never as ubiquitous as it is today. The real world is now very much living on server farms+mobiles, more than ever before. All this seems like such an immature pointless argument. in fact i'm going to stop wri
- mr_toad 6y agoManufacturers love it. Inkjet printers, coffee makers, cars, vacuum cleaners, laptops. If a manufacturer thinks it can get away with monopolising parts, accessories, and services it will try it. If Epic does win it could set a very wide-reaching precedent.
- nodamage 6y agoOn the flip side, the fact that no one has successfully sued manufacturers of inkjet printers, coffee makers, cars, vacuum cleaners, and laptops over this issue should give you some clues as to how likely it is for Epic to win their case.
- chongli 6y agoThe lawsuit doesn’t have to succeed in court for Epic to succeed. If the case generates enough publicity but ultimately fails, they may be able to lobby Congress for a new law akin to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act [1]. Then, instead of precedent they might have statutory protection for what they want to do. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...
- danieldk 6y agoPhilips tried to block other companies from making Senseo-compatible coffee pads. The European Patent Office revoked Philips' patent after opposition of competitors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senseo#Revocation_by_the_European_Patent_Office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senseo#Revocation_by_the_Europ... And actually in the case of Inkjet printers, the court of appeals and the supreme court ruled in favor of companies making third-party cartridges and refills: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_cartridge#Legality_of_refills_and_third_party_replacements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_cartridge#Legality_of_refi... The EU started an antitrust investigation into Apple's App Store practices: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1073 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_... Retaliation, such as this one by Apple, or the recent kerfuffle around the WordPress app are only going to increase the probability of antitrust action against Apple.
- woliveirajr 6y agothere were a time when game consoles were just a hardware that would run any cartridge that you inserted. restricting what could run in it is recent.
- jkelleyrtp 6y agoThese types of restrictions are all over the place, and I'm not sure if they're good or bad. TVs and audio-listening-devices come built-in with dmca protection, meaning you can't watch pirated footage or listen to pirated music even though you own the device. Is that good? Is that bad?
- admax88q 6y agoThat's bad, 100% bad. My TV does not need to be playing detective and monitoring every use of it. My car doesn't prevent me from exceeding the speed limit, not does it report me to authorities if I do.
- Aeolun 6y agoGive it a few more years.
- carl_dr 6y agoI suspect this was a bit of a throwaway comment, but ... “EU ruling means speed limiters will be mandatory in the UK [and EU] by 2022“ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/mandatory-speed-limiters/ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/mandatory-spe...
- Aeolun 6y agoI did think we had a few more years :/ thanks for letting me know though.
- jimmaswell 6y agoHow would a TV know it's being sent something pirated? I can't find a source on this.
- Aeolun 6y agoI’m not really aware of any console manufacturer other than Nintendo that spends as much effort trying to prevent me from doing that. Generally I don’t want to do it with my console either, as I explicitly buy it to play games. The same thing is not true for my phone, which is very much a general purpose device.
- kyriakos 6y agoThe difference with game consoles is that the main reason for locking them down is to avoid piracy rather than controlling what the user runs.