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Hypothetically, let's say you're a regular Chinese citizen concerned about human rights abuses and police brutality in the US. Can you roughly estimate the imp

by qiqing 6y ago

Hypothetically, let's say you're a regular Chinese citizen concerned about human rights abuses and police brutality in the US. Can you roughly estimate the impact of your forum posts, boycotts, and all that on US government policy?

grugagag 6y ago
It depends on a lot of factors such as who and how many see your posts, how much you consume and how much you boycott etc. If you’re alone the impact is small but if others are starting to follow suit the number goes up fast and the voice becomes stronger. It is easy to think the impact is nill and that’s exactly how the opressor wants you to think, no wonder the divide and conquer is a strategy that works. But every movement starts off with a few who believe they make a difference and eventually it picks up a critical mass
- qiqing 6y ago
  Let me contrast that with something: opening a dialogue outside of an echo chamber. For example, a woman of Han descent who had her purse snatched by a Uighur kid talked about feeling nervous and clutching her bag when she passed someone on the street. Instead of lecturing her about systemic problems as a first resort, I started by finding common ground: her experiences as a Chinese woman studying abroad in Japan, and the systemic racism she experienced. The ally training skills I learned in the US were helpful. The more typical high-minded condescension, in contrast, tends to be counterproductive in my experience.
  - jkhdigital 6y ago
    Yeah... I hear you and I think there’s a valid point here, but let’s not draw false equivalencies. Mass forced detention of entire ethnic groups is not comparable to systemic racism. One can argue that the US is systemically racist but we did elect a black president.
    - grugagag 6y ago
      Trump is the wrath we get for electing a black president
    - qiqing 6y ago
      I'm not drawing an equivalence. I'm talking about opening up a dialogue by finding common ground first.
    - chub500 6y ago
      To avoid confusion it might be useful to define what systemic racism means today. The words have changed meaning slightly over the last 60 years. https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racism-and-institutional-racism-131152 https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racis...
Darmody 6y ago
There's a huge difference. China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. Now, if we change that by let's say moving factories back home or to Africa, they'll be in trouble. If you're a Chinese citizen, first of all you don't have a voice. The CCP owns the country, they make the rules, and economically they don't have the upper hand. That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them. ... and if that fails, take citizens of countries they're at cold war with as hostages: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-canadians-with-alleged-espionage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-c...
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. This seems... economically confused. Billions flowing in from the West reflect the fact that China's internal economy is strong. If it fell apart, no money would flow in.
  - jkhdigital 6y ago
    It means that the productivity of the Chinese economy, and thus the ability of the CCP to siphon off some of that for things like building mass detention facilities, is dependent upon foreign demand. It is doubtful that China has enough domestic consumption demand to keep everyone gainfully employed if foreign demand dried up. But it’s hard to say what would actually happen.
    - adventured 6y ago

by qiqing 6y ago

grugagag 6y ago

It depends on a lot of factors such as who and how many see your posts, how much you consume and how much you boycott etc. If you’re alone the impact is small but if others are starting to follow suit the number goes up fast and the voice becomes stronger. It is easy to think the impact is nill and that’s exactly how the opressor wants you to think, no wonder the divide and conquer is a strategy that works. But every movement starts off with a few who believe they make a difference and eventually it picks up a critical mass

qiqing 6y ago
Let me contrast that with something: opening a dialogue outside of an echo chamber. For example, a woman of Han descent who had her purse snatched by a Uighur kid talked about feeling nervous and clutching her bag when she passed someone on the street. Instead of lecturing her about systemic problems as a first resort, I started by finding common ground: her experiences as a Chinese woman studying abroad in Japan, and the systemic racism she experienced. The ally training skills I learned in the US were helpful. The more typical high-minded condescension, in contrast, tends to be counterproductive in my experience.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  Yeah... I hear you and I think there’s a valid point here, but let’s not draw false equivalencies. Mass forced detention of entire ethnic groups is not comparable to systemic racism. One can argue that the US is systemically racist but we did elect a black president.
  - grugagag 6y ago
    Trump is the wrath we get for electing a black president
  - qiqing 6y ago
    I'm not drawing an equivalence. I'm talking about opening up a dialogue by finding common ground first.
  - chub500 6y ago
    To avoid confusion it might be useful to define what systemic racism means today. The words have changed meaning slightly over the last 60 years. https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racism-and-institutional-racism-131152 https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racis...

Darmody 6y ago

There's a huge difference. China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. Now, if we change that by let's say moving factories back home or to Africa, they'll be in trouble. If you're a Chinese citizen, first of all you don't have a voice. The CCP owns the country, they make the rules, and economically they don't have the upper hand. That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them.

mschuster91 6y ago
> That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them. ... and if that fails, take citizens of countries they're at cold war with as hostages: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-canadians-with-alleged-espionage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-c...
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. This seems... economically confused. Billions flowing in from the West reflect the fact that China's internal economy is strong. If it fell apart, no money would flow in.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  It means that the productivity of the Chinese economy, and thus the ability of the CCP to siphon off some of that for things like building mass detention facilities, is dependent upon foreign demand. It is doubtful that China has enough domestic consumption demand to keep everyone gainfully employed if foreign demand dried up. But it’s hard to say what would actually happen.
  - adventured 6y ago