24 ms·

One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

• diminish 6y ago
  What are the cons of mac? for me: - Sluggish UI - Inadequate package manager - Unintuitive ways to install stuff - Slow and large updates - Can't do Linux development - Can't try server tools - Slow boot-to-work time - Hard to add memory and ram - Limited interfaces - Hacker unfriendly - Can't have a minimal desktop - High memory usage of base system
  • fsflover 6y ago
    > - Hard to add memory and ram In fact, impossible for a long time already. Upd: I mean laptops; not true for other products.
    • tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      Except where it isn't (iMac, Mac Mini, iMac Pro, Mac Pro).
      • fsflover 6y ago
        Thanks for the correction, edited my comment.
  • FoomFries 6y ago
    I'm curious how you arrived at some of these conclusions. - Sluggish UI -> I've never experienced this in the last three years of using my 2017 MBP. - Inadequate package manager -> Somewhat nebulous, most package managers on Linux are available on Unix. - Slow and large updates -> I honestly don't pay much attention as I have updates install automatically while I'm sleeping, but what size differences have you noticed? - Slow boot to work -> Never experienced this, boot is less than a minute regularly. - Can't have a minimal desktop -> Beyond hiding all icons and the dock, what more are you looking for? - High memory usage of base system -> Never seen this come close to the main applications I use on a daily basis. What quantified results are you receiving to notice this?
    • angio 6y ago
      Not OP, but I share some of his views. > Inadequate package manager -> Somewhat nebulous, most package managers on Linux are available on Unix. Here he probably compares homebrew with apt/dnf/zypper. Compared to these three, homebrew is quite primitive and prone to be in a bad state. Luckily now you can use nix on MacOS which is a good package manager. > Can't have a minimal desktop -> Beyond hiding all icons and the dock, what more are you looking for? I run a minimal desktop with a tiling window manager (bspwm) and a status bar (polybar in my case), I don't need a window decorator and so I don't have one. I also don't need drop shadows on windows and so I disabled them (while keeping them on popups). AFAIK that is simply impossible to achieve on MacOS.
      • zdw 6y ago
        MacPorts is a better long-term experience than Homebrew. It takes the BSD ports approach, where all packages are maintained together in a centralized repository. The Homebrew approach is closer to a bunch of PPA's and other independently maintained stuff of questionable integration status. If all you've tried is Homebrew, then I'm not surprised at the reaction.
    • mattlondon 6y ago
      > - Sluggish UI -> I've never experienced this in the last three years of using my 2017 MBP. Not the author, but perhaps they meant that the UI was sluggish to use? I find OSX great if you have one browser window open, but start to multitask at all and I personally find it a real pig to work with. Open windows are hidden behind a tiny white dot on the task bar, lots of wasted space around the task bar, no snapping or window-splitting, the menus are detached from the windows they are for and you need to focus the window to get the menu to appear, the task switcher thing (expose?) is a horrible jarring swooshy animation that is awfully distracting with things moving around on the screen on their own as you are trying to look at them. I find it so frustrating to use after almost a decade of using macs now - it does not get any better once "used to it". Linux (Cinnamon or Plasma) + Windows 10 are just so much more intuitive for me. I'd 100% bite the hands off of the IT team here if they offered me a Windows 10 machine instead of a mac for my engineering laptop.
  • aeyes 6y ago
    - machine marketed as "Pro" dies from a drop of water
    • pwython 6y ago
      Did this happen to you? Funny story, I spit a mouthful of La Croix on my 2016 touchbar MacBook Pro just the other day (not for fun, wrong pipe). Keyboard, screen, etc. I thought it was a goner. But I wiped it down and it's still fine.
      • vicedvin 6y ago
        Make sure to dry it completely, and the insides too. My friend spilled coffee on a macbook air and it was fine for a month and then died. All the internals were rusted. Coffee is different from soda, but still, take care.
    • hashedout 6y ago
      This monsoon my backlight started to die. Kept it in a dry environment, it fixed itself. ffs apple.
    • rbanffy 6y ago
      OTOH, my wife's MBP was on the backseat of her car when another driver hit the back of her car at high speed, totalling both cars. Her car's trunk and backseat were compressed into about 70 cm. The computer survived with one scratch to one of its corners.
  • Jaepa 6y ago
    > - Can't do Linux development How do you figure that? Docker gives you a native linux runtime, and you can use x11 if you're developing GTK/QT clients.
    • tgv 6y ago
      To be fair, docker doesn't run well on macOS. I've got a few containers that are mostly idle on Linux, but take two cores on my mac.
      • Jaepa 6y ago
        The divide between doesn't work, and doesn't work as well is pretty wide.
      • AtomicOrbital 6y ago
        all my laptops/servers run linux and I too have noticed Docker run on osx is just not the same smooth tool as when run on a linux host although Docker was far worse on osx until a year or two ago ... to me the fixation people have for osx is purely inertia and over time the linux laptop will continue to gain converts from the Apple fan clubbers
    • CSDude 6y ago
      And it burns you or the desk in the process. I hate Docker based workflows on macOS although loving the tool.
  • KptMarchewa 6y ago
    Extremely bad thermals. My i9 mbp spends more time throttled then working full power, even though I'm using cooling pad.
    • cercatrova 6y ago
      Try Macs Fan Control or TG Pro, you can set custom fan curves.
  • loxs 6y ago
    For me, the worst of all is that you can minimize an app and it's still on focus. That gets me every single time. I don't know who thought of this, but last time I checked, it was supposed to be a feature, not a bug :D
• lettergram 6y ago
  There's a lot you can do to improve battery life... T480 - Larger battery cell (I get >20hrs of use). Then there's a bunch of configuration options: https://austingwalters.com/increasing-battery-life-on-an-arch-linux-laptop-thinkpad-t14s/ https://austingwalters.com/increasing-battery-life-on-an-arc... On my new T14s after the latest updates and a much smaller battery, I can still easily get 8 hours at ~2.5lbs weight, 16 cores, 32Gb RAM.
• tyingq 6y ago
  "Battery time is not like Macs. ~ 5 hours (after one year)" There are different battery choices of 72, 48 and 24 watt hours. I believe the 72 watt hour battery "bulges" a bit and makes the laptop not sit flat. Edit: You could also disable the MX150 GPU if you don't really use it.
  • hashedout 6y ago
    What is up with windows laptops battery? Even though a brand new laptop could last for 14 hours it degrades so much after an year.
• lmilcin 6y ago
  I am also running Linux on Thinkpad (Debian unstable on T440s). As to the battery life, this typically requires some work but I found it is generally possible to get good battery life. I am able to get my T440s to run for total 24 hours with the highest option 9-cell, the built in 3-cell and another 3-cell that came original with the laptop. This I did to be able to work on a long yacht cruise with no extra power and required to get backlight almost to minimum and to downclock CPU a little bit. Now, to get there there are tools that can tell you what is using up the battery and some howtos on the Internet. I don't remember details so it is best if you go look it up yourself. If you are using i3 you are generally well set up to easily get over 10h of operation. As to touchpad these are all disappointing on all ThinkPads but probably especially on T440s where it is something called "clickpad". The entire touchpad is a button and you need to press it and try to move your finger while pressing HARD to drag things, for example. Dunno who thought this is a good idea. I always travel with a mouse and a mouse pad to be able to work comfortably:) Still, it is easier to use built in keyboard and a mouse than the reverse, luscious touchpad but keyboard to replace miserable something shipped with Macbook. I don't like typing on something that feels like a solid pane of aluminum with some markings on it.
  • Krasnol 6y ago
    You should try a trackball. I switched over to the logitech MX ergo after using a mouse for many years and the usuall pains started.
    • danielbarla 6y ago
      I've been a happy user of trackballs for many years, and can also happily recommend the Kensington variety. It is also quite configurable, both in the traditional software sense, and in the sense that you can use it in a variety of different physical ways (thumb, forefingers, at a variety of angles, etc). This variety kind of helps reduce the "repetitive" part of RSI.
      • Galanwe 6y ago
        I always fancied switching to track balls but never dared to jump. Can you be as fast as with a mouse with it? As precise?
• jeroenhd 6y ago
  > Can't debug issues in Safari without borrowing a Mac > Can't do iOS development Not legally, no. These can be worked around with a VM, just like with the Windows issue. It sucks, but Apple is never going to support their development toolchain on any other platform. All in all, I think this is a pretty positive review for an "I switched to Linux" blog post. Usually they're more negative about the lack of finish a lot of Linux tools use, but the author of this blog seems to be more tolerant towards the small things in order to gain the big things.
  • geerlingguy 6y ago
    You can also rent a full Mac mini from MacStadium and access it via VNC/SSH if you need. For ongoing projects though, where you don't need the hosting aspect, it would be cheaper to just buy a used Mac.
    • gen220 6y ago
      At my current place of work, we have a rack of Mac mini’s in a closet as our build server for the iOS app. I was kind horrified and amazed to learn of this at first, but it really is normal. It’s impressive what gymnastics Apple compels us to go through :)
      • gambiting 6y ago
        It must be quite common, or companies wouldn't sell dedicated rack mounts for these: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/rackmacmini.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/rackmacmini.html
        • apocalyptic0n3 6y ago
          Minis are also common in homelabs. Small, cheap when used (even cheaper if it's your own old machine), and natively runs a Unix-like environment for each management and can easily boot into Linux instead. I suspect the switch to Apple silicon is going to change that, however.
• kylecazar 6y ago
  Cool. I'm running Linux on a Dell Vostro I purchased during their quarterly business sale as my daily driver -- I can't believe the machine I got for the price, and strongly encourage people to look at these sales.. How big of an issue is it to target iOS as a platform on a PC these days with the rise of Flutter, etc? I'm looking to get into app development, but don't have a Mac, nor would I like to buy one if I can avoid it.
  • DownGoat 6y ago
    Depends on the app I guess, but you can get far without needing a Mac with flutter etc. Sadly I think there still is some restrictions for some Apple hardware for the developer part of the app store. I'm not super familiar with that part, but we had some issues with some Apple legal terms which could only be accepted on a authenticated device, which means you need Apple hardware.
    • anta40 6y ago
      No. Whatever solution you pick for iOS dev: Flutter, React Native, Xamarin etc etc, in the end we will always meet the same thing: iOS SDK. And iOS SDK only runs on Mac, unlike Android. Unless Apple decide to port their SDK to Windows/Linux (which I believe will not happen), you can't practically avoid Mac.
  • igneo676 6y ago
    A Mac is required to build to an actual device or Simulator. You'll definitely want that to test out any device specific differences. You can count on the framework to abstract away big significant parts of your app (business logic, UI) but some of the nuances you will probably have to tweak yourself. Launcher icons, handling notches, device specific features, and other weird oddities. At least in the React Native community, you can often get away with building to the device only once every native dependency change. This becomes a better experience with Expo though
  • jamil7 6y ago
    If you want to get into mobile development there isn't really much choice but to own a mac. You could pick up a used or refurbished mac mini at a reasonable price.
• fendy3002 6y ago
  > Touchpad is not close to Mac I'm using l390 and the touchpad feels good for me. Never use mac, does mac's touchpad is considerably better? EDIT: formatting
  • actuator 6y ago
    It definitely is better than most other laptops and one that makes a significant difference. I think XPS 13 has improved the touchpad a lot, but haven't used the recent version.
  • fractalbit 6y ago
    Some high end Thinkpads like my old but trusty X1 has the glass touchpad, those are delightful to use IMO.
  • mciancia 6y ago
    Not sure if anything changed in last year or two, but to be honest, only after using mac you can see how touchpad actually should and can work. Anything alse was garbage by comparison.
  • midrus 6y ago
    Yes, Mac touchpads are light years ahead of any other trackpad. I believe this is because they control both, the hardware and the software side of it. For me this is the only reason holding me from moving too.
    • thebean11 6y ago
      I never really got this argument, what exactly is stopping a manufacturer from writing a great trackpad driver?
      • actuator 6y ago
        I have heard and read in reviews that Microsoft has more or less nailed the touchpad in Surface laptops. So definitely there is scope.
• numpad0 6y ago
  Why buy ThinkPad if you’re going to use touchpad anyway
• hankdoupe 6y ago
  I had suunto watch issues, too. I used openambit[1] for a bit, but at some point, I was no longer able to get it to sync with my movescount account. Eventually, I got a new watch that synced with my phone over bluetooth and the issue was moot. [1]: https://github.com/openambitproject/openambit https://github.com/openambitproject/openambit
• actuator 6y ago
  I noticed that T480 comes with a U processor. Is this configurable? For a machine that is not going for that ultrabook thickness, M seems like a better choice.
• stuff4ben 6y ago
  I'm seriously considering this since my MacBook Air is so pokey. I do use Microsoft Excel though on my Mac, however it's through Firefox and I find it perfectly acceptable compared to the desktop version I used to use. Anyone know if Excel on Firefox on Linux works as expected? I'd assume it did, but just wanted to make sure. Everything else I'm fine with.
  • actuator 6y ago
    I think it should work as expected, there is generally parity between different OSs for Firefox. I use Google Sheets on my remote linux machine and that seems to work fine. I don't like LibreOffice though.
  • se32point1 6y ago
    > Anyone know if Excel on Firefox on Linux works as expected? I'm not experienced with this, but I can safely say that if you're willing to, you can use Office 2007 (probably 2010 and 2013, and maybe 2016, but that last one is slow). Alternatively, OnlyOffice has extremely good compatibility with MS Office and works well for the purpose.
• kakakiki 6y ago
  I have been a windows/linux user for about as long as I can remember - because cheap! For the 8 months I am using a MBP and absolutely love it. It is a pleasure to look at it and use - except for the keyboard! The trackpad experience is unparalleled IMHO.
• bogwog 6y ago
  I love Thinkpads and I love Linux. My current "daily driver" laptop is an old X220T from 2011, which is a tablet hybrid (including touchscreen and Wacom pen/digitizer). I don't use it because of nostalgia or a love for retro computers, I use it because it's still an excellent experience all these years later. No modern laptop in the current price range can beat it. I don't know if that's because the build quality was so great back then, or because Intel dropped the ball this past decade. I'm guessing it's a little of both, which is why I'm kind of conflicted right now: I love Thinkpads, but I'm also super interested to try out the new ARM-based Macbooks.
  • tluyben2 6y ago
    X220 here; they are great. Battery life, performance (for what I do) etc are lovely almost 11 years after production.
    • rkangel 6y ago
      A lot of modern software development is actually pretty light on computer power needs. Unfortunately I'm in the 'have compiled the Linux kernel 3 times today' camp for which that isn't true.
      • rbanffy 6y ago
        I do almost all my heavy lifting on a Lenovo tower under my desk. What it can't do, I use a cloud instance for.
    • wilsonnb3 6y ago
      They have bad screens compared to modern laptops, even the higher end IPS ones.
      • bigpeopleareold 6y ago
        I put an IPS display into my x220. Still lower resolution, but I get away with it with a lot of tweaking. I have laptops with better screens but I usually use my x220 instead. I'd just say: YMMV :)
• antb123 6y ago
  t470s currently but have been using linux and thinkpads since the mid/late 90s. Battery life isn't great agree. My solution currently is a USB-C portable battery which I get an additional full laptop charge. In the past x220 and t60(p) were favourite models. Other annoyance (still!) is sleep seems to work on certain kernels and not on others. Was on ubuntu forever but slowly may move back to debian as I don't like snap packages. Mouse is Logitech MX Anywhere 2S Only suggestion currently on getting an laptop is usb-c, ips screen, nvme drive and lots of ram. In fact the CPU doesn't matter much. I used the x series for a decade but now moved to t series and they have gotten lighter and are good value.
  • the_af 6y ago
    > Mouse is Logitech MX Anywhere 2S This mouse has seriously become my favorite ever. Outstanding battery life, very comfortable, it works on any surface I've tried, and it works great on both macOS and Linux.
  • nunb 6y ago
    your desiderata are now available in the T60 form factor! Xue Yao makes the T70 franken-pad, a 4:3 IPS screen laptop with modern internals [1] ideal for someone who loved the x220 and t60 ... battery life is great too. you should take a look! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpadsforsale/comments/attt0u/sgh51nb_t70_frankenpad_w_paypal_or_transferwise/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpadsforsale/comments/attt0u/sg...
• dcminter 6y ago
  I used to use Thinkpads until I decided to switch when the Lenovo Superfish thing happened more-or-less in conjunction with the sharp decline in keyboard quality. In terms of reliability and compatibility they were always very solid, and I got great price/performance results by buying last-year's top of the line models second-hand and then maxing out whatever could be upgraded (memory + disk) from there. After that I switched to Dell XPS 13s starting with the 9350, buying new. There was an initial issue with the WiFi adapter being unsupported (as I recall the `developer edition` with Ubuntu supported was more expensive but also had a better supported WiFi card) which initially required me to build a custom kernel module (I think? It was a while ago) but support appeared very soon after in mainline Linux. Subsequently I've had no major compatibility issues - except that support for multiple monitors where the laptop is HiDPI but the external monitors aren't is very poor (the Thinkpads I owned weren't HiDPI - I don't think this is a Dell issue). Edit: Battery life is mediocre on all the XPS models I've had. Just lately I've been using a work-issued Dell Latitude 7490. I'm enjoying this a lot. Support is solid, the screen isn't HiDPI so multi-monitor usage is fine, its battery life is good enough to get me through a working day without plugging in (sometimes I don't even notice I haven't plugged in), and it has plenty of ports (including USB C, HDMI, and Ethernet). I've used Macs on and off in the workplace but couldn't get used to them. If I needed to do CAD, Graphic Design, or other things where open source software doesn't cut the mustard I guess I'd go for a Mac, but happily I just don't need to these days (the broad move to Web apps helped a LOT, particularly the move to GSuite for a lot of stuff that would previously have required MS Office). Just my 2¢.
• neng 6y ago
  The Mac trackpad is very good. Was a key reason I left to Macbook after 10 years of running Linux as on my workstation. I may go back to Linux someday. I miss focus-follows-mouse. Apple sucks at some things, but gets more core capabilities right.
  • nunb 6y ago
    Mac trackpads are unmatched (yay/boo Fingerworks!) but you could always use an external mac touchpad. In any case, shortcut keys are abundant in Linux desktops, and a tiling wm (I like the default one in Pop OS) really changes the game.
• dddddaviddddd 6y ago
  There's work to make the touchpad better https://bill.harding.blog/2020/06/22/linux-touchpad-project-update-progress-on-multitouch/ https://bill.harding.blog/2020/06/22/linux-touchpad-project-...
• ekianjo 6y ago
  I have several thinkpads (5) and run them all on Linux. Agree that the battery life is not optimal, even with TLP. Keyboards are typically excellent, but the brand of the keyboard can matter a lot (there are usually 2-3 different manufacturers of Thinkpad keyboards and they don't feel the same). Maintaining Thinkpads is usually a pure joy: super easy to open up, easy to replace RAM, sometimes CPU (depending on the model) and storage. And they are robust (will survive a fall). Software wise, apart from some rare exceptions (X1 Gen 7?) everything works out of the box on most distros.
• k__ 6y ago
  Half-OT: I'm using a MBP13"(2013) for years now and really like it, but it's not upgradable and it's getting cumbersome to do some more intesive things with it. Would you recommend buying a new MBP or getting a laptop?
  • benologist 6y ago
    I find my dual-core 2013 to still be alright if I SSH into a six-core NUC to work. Visual Studio Code makes this super easy to do and almost exactly the same as working locally, it can be done without it too. I used a remote VM this way as well for about 9 months while wondering what to buy and on wired connection it was also pretty seamless. https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh
    • k__ 6y ago
      I use remote VMs too, but they aren't good for FinalCut Pro and Ableton Live.
      • benologist 6y ago
        Have you tried Thunderbolt accessories? You should be able to add NVMe storage and AMD graphics that might speed things up. I couldn't try this out because I have an nVidia eGPU, but using Apple's TB2-to-TB3 adaptor I can actually game quite acceptably in Bootcamp.
        • k__ 6y ago
          I will try that, thanks!
  • asutekku 6y ago
    The 2019/2020 MBP is a solid one.
  • hashedout 6y ago
    The ones with 10th gen Intel processors with the "new" keyboard are very good
• hashedout 6y ago
  Macbooks have nailed down the basics when it comes down to the user experience: 1. Best touchpad period. 2. Good overall keyboards (Ignore the 2016-2020 butterfly keyboards) 3. Best sounding speakers. 4. Every display has 400+ nits of brightness with good color accuracy. 5. Very good battery life per watt-hour of the battery and lasts better with time as well. The package is what make the macbooks great. I don't have to go through a list of laptops and go through pros and cons of laptops and there are a LOT of cons. You may think that bad sounding speakers or 250 nits screen is not a very big deal but just try using a macbook for a while and you'll see how these these make a drastic change in the user experience. People go on about how macbooks are over-hyped and expensive (they are!) but I think that what they offer is a level above anything else on the market. I am using a MBA 2015 for my dev purposes and sometimes the 8Gigs of RAM feels like it could use an upgrade. (I want to upgrade but it is so much expensive moving on to the new ones). I've tried so many laptops and none of those impress me. This is the only reason that Macbooks, even though they cost a bomb, last for well over 10 years. Edit: It "seems" windows laptops are catching up, but please list one laptop that would be usable after, say 8 years. For eg. a MBP 2012 will still work very good in 2020 compared to any of the laptops from even 2015. Are there any windows laptops in 2020 that you can say the same for?
• submeta 6y ago
  I love the idea of having a Thinkpad running Linux. But there are a dozen apps on my Mac that I would miss terribly. DEVONthink, OmniGraffle, and many more. I was thinking about getting a used ThinkPad for Emacs + Org plus terminal only. A companion for writing in Emacs/org and for doing dev work (Python, Lisp, Bash). This article made me revisit that plan. (Been using ThinkPads from 2006-2015 and loved the experience. Solid rock hardware and best keybord.) But I can‘t think of getting rid of my Mac as it is adding so much quality to my day to day life.
  • mason55 6y ago
    I needed a new laptop and while I’d prefer a MBP I don’t want to buy one right now with the ARM cutover on the horizon. Instead I bought a refurb t460 for like $400 and slapped NixOS/i3wm on it. It’ll hold me over until the ARM release and if I really need anything Mac specific I still have my old MBP.
  • TuringNYC 6y ago
    I've never thought of MacBooks for the apps specifically, but I checked OmniGraffle which looks like a great replacement for Visio. Visio is one of the few things that keeps me occasionally attached to PCs. Could you please share the other Mac-only apps that you'd miss, i'd love to see!
    • submeta 6y ago
      Software that is unique to MacOS: - HoudahSpot (search files / documents) - DEVONthink (document management system) - Ulysses app (a markdown writing app; I know there are many, on many platforms) - iA Writer (another markdown writer) - Alfred App (automating) - Keyboard Maestro (automating) - AppleScript (automating) - MailMate - Things3 (task management) - OmniOutliner - OmniFocus - OmniGraffle - PDF Expert (reading / annotating pdfs) - iTerm - aText (text macros) - Timing App (auto time tracking) and many more.
• alexktz 6y ago
  I recently purchased a 16” MBP despite significant personal concerns over the future of MacOS, being a strong open source advocate and Linux paying my mortgage. I did this ultimately for a few reasons. MacOS lets me run Adobe (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc), Fusion360, has a good terminal (iTerm and zsh unix like shell) and Logic. Mac hardware is still some of the best in the business, no other vendors seem to be able to catch-up. The XPS line is a great example, the battery that Dell chose to put in that laptop can’t run the internals at full power when not connected to AC. There are plenty of other comments about Thinkpads here (I have a T480s through work) and find the overall experience just fine. The MacBook on the other hand, I use for 8+ hours every day. It’s the machine I reach for first. It sparks joy. It just works when roaming on WiFi, always. It just works with Bluetooth headphones, always. It just works with external displays, first time, every time. To put it simply, the machine gets out of my way and lets me get real work done. I can SSH to wherever I want and get ‘the Linux experience’. My personal desktop runs Arch and KDE but for a portable, annoyingly, I still think Macs are the only way to go. But damn do I wish they had a SD card slot.
  • krooj 6y ago
    "It just works with external displays" - ಠ_ಠ
    • bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      one of the most infuriating phrases in tech is the mac "just works" one
      • mtrovo 6y ago
        "It just works with external displays" using a $80 official Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter or to a $180 AppleTV through AirPort, you choose
      • cytzol 6y ago
        I feel like that phrase was extremely accurate... before the buggy OSes, awful keyboards, and hordes of security prompts. If you're starting to use Apple devices in 2020 I can see why you'd think that phrase is infuriating, but believe me when I say things used to be so much better!
• z9e 6y ago
  I'm actually considering either going with the T480p or an Asus for my next work laptop (from a 2018 MBP) with Linux on it. I have a T470p though that has a broken motherboard right after the warranty expired. When picking it up to move it around, it shorts out and restarts, apparently this is a known issue with the 470's. But I really fear Lenovo's reliability these days. Has anyone else had reliability problems with the T series? How reliable have the T480's been?
  • distances 6y ago
    Lenovo has an updated ThinkPad line, T14, that has also AMD 4000 series as an option. I would definitely check that out, as AMD is running circles around Intel CPUs especially on laptops where the power consumption is more limited.
    • z9e 6y ago
      Sweet, I'll consider that. I just upgraded my gaming desktop to an AMD Ryzen 9. I'm so happy to see AMD making a comeback. If I can get an AMD on the next work machine, even better.
  • ahnick 6y ago
    I've been using a T480 (same as author) and it has been very reliable. I even dropped it getting out of the van a while back and it landed on a corner of the laptop when it hit the pavement. It has still been running just as well as when I originally got it. :)
    • z9e 6y ago
      Good to know, thanks.
• mkj 6y ago
  Is it the Linux kernel or userspace programs that make Linux battery life worse?
• fsflover 6y ago
  > Can disable webcam in BIOS when not used Purism sells laptops [0] with real hardware kill switches for camera and microphone. Welcome to the future. > Maintenance: T480 is not slim and this is for the better. I can replace/upgrade most components by myself. Slimness has nothing to do with repairability / upgradeability. Purism laptops are slim and perfectly repairable. (I'm a happy owner). [0] https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-15/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-15/
  • tarasmatsyk 6y ago
    it looks very interesting, I came around purism a couple of times but never got to hardware switchers section, very nice. Is there anyone who has any experience with puri.sm?
  • wazoox 6y ago
    My Lenovo IdeaPad has a sliding cover for the webcam. It's about the same size as a MacBook, sports 32 GB or RAM, an 8 core Ryzen and 2 M2 SSDs for ~900€. The trackpad is fine, and the WiFi reaches about 300Mbps. I'm quite happy with it (too bad they put a large black band at the bottom of the screen instead of a 16:10 one...)
• x87678r 6y ago
  I was looking at larger laptops to run Linux but they aren't cheap so MBP doesn't look such bad value. I want 15in screen with higher than 1080 resolution, 16GB memory, good battery life and there really isn't much less than $1500 from the main brands that will run Linux well. Any suggestions? Otherwise the MBP16 looks not such bad value as I know it'll be reliable.
  • fsflover 6y ago
    https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-15/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-15/
    • x87678r 6y ago
      Thanks that's actually pretty good. Saves 30% off MBP for unknown brand, I have to decide whether its worth it.
    • sneak 6y ago
      I was going to get one of these but the lack of USB-C charging turned me off from it. It’s 2020.
  • mustardo 6y ago
    Something from https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/ maybe? Ive never had one, anecdote but the two people i know who got the 16" MBP have had to return them with hardware issues, at least apples support is pretty good. Im hanging on to my 2015MBP for dear life, has great connectivity and reliability, id like the new 16" as it is nice but am waiting for a hardware itteration, suppose by then there might be something arm based released?
    • tarasmatsyk 6y ago
      arm released is not going to happen in the next 2 years, IMO mpro 16" is going to get better and it is good enough to switch to it permanently. I was testing a few mpros before purchasing one
• snide 6y ago
  3 months ago I made the switch to Linux (manjaro) with i3. I currently run off an Intel NUC, which works perfectly fine, but I have a Thinkpad now on the way. I figured I'd do a writeup because I'm a designer and that makes me a little bit of a freak. First, I was already a vim user for 8 years, so I was used to config files and the terminal. I moved primarily after watching some videos about I3 / awesome WM and browsing the /r/unixporn subreddit. Primarily I liked the idea of designing my own OS from scratch, and the idea of being able to change ANYTHING was really intriguing to me. I guess it's important to note that as a designer this wouldn't have been possible without tools like Figma and Framer being web based. Put bluntly, Linux native design tooling isn't up to par with what I had on a mac, and without Figma I wouldn't have been able to move over full-time. It's also important to mention that while I classify myself as a designer, I design 90% of the time in code, writing React + CSS. I realize I'm a little different and this likely sways some of my feelings towards linux. In short, I've really enjoyed the switch. The window management alone has been reason enough. Being able to navigate my windows with key commands, and generally lay things out the way I see fit between polybar + i3 has been fantastic. Don't like a certain shadow? Change it with picom. Don't like seeing title bars on your windows? Change a config. I'm also a designer that believes in heavy focus (think tab focus in a browser) so every window gets a thick focus border. Everything is matched to a color-scheme that I like, and I mean everything. I don't feel like I'm using Linux so much as I've used Linux to build Dave OS. I was able to migrate nearly $500 of annual tooling to home-made scripts and services that I run through GCP. For example. I used to use cloud app for screenshot / movie snippets. Any designer will tell you something like that is their bread and butter... "hey what do you think of this?". I moved it to Peek / Flameshot + a 40-line bash script that watches a folder and uploads it to a gcp bucket. It took me a half day of learning. At the end of it I had a funny realization... why have I been paying for these simple services for years and complaining about features they didn't have? Now I just add the features. Performance is hit and miss. Everything I used to do in the terminal (which is where I spend most of my time) feels faster. In general, I had to drop apps and move command line. This was fun! I moved to buku for bookmarks, taskwarrior for todo lists...etc. What I loved about this was it forced me to engage more in the OSS community. I already do mostly OSS stuff for work, but I was in my bubble. Linux forced me out, and I found myself talking a bit more on Github, asking questions and the like. This was the thing that I've ended up loving. In general I've been amazed at the amount of support I've gotten from maintainers by just saying "Hey, I'm a designer, I'm not so knowledgeable about the guts of this code, can you help me out"? Slack and zoom are slow. They are pretty resource intensive apps and weren't exactly speed kings on my mac, but they do feel noticibly worse on Linux. I'm hoping this is due to my hardware, but I suspect the apps just aren't as considered in Linux. I've really enjoyed AUR / pacman for package management and it feels like brew, but for everything. The one thing I think Linux is missing is a good calendar application that syncs with gcal. The terminal based ones are a little overweight and underdesigned, and I can't find a GUI one I like. Anyways, I'll probably do a formal blog writeup at some point, and more importantly make some videos of my setup, since it's probably interesting for folks to see how a designer uses Linux, but I thought it'd be worth a quick post to let others know its possible. Hardware wise I had no trouble with my mac, mostly because I already had my own custom keyboards and the like, but I'm excited about the new Thinkpad on the way more for it's power-to-price.
• time0ut 6y ago
  Personally, it has been really hard to justify the Apple premium the past few years. My company upgraded us to touchbar MBPs a few years ago. I am thankful as it helped me avoid the mistake of buying my own. Instead, I went Thinkpad+Linux(Lubuntu) for an iteration. Excellent machine as the article details. I was very happy with it for a couple years. I wanted something with a beefier GPU though, so most recently went to Asus+W10Pro+WSL2. I was skeptical at first, having been off Windows for a decade, but it is pretty decent. There are some minor annoyances, but not enough to push me back to full Linux yet.
• greatgib 6y ago
  Most of this blog post looks like to be a standard user personal experience report. Most items make sense in this context I think, but there is one point that surprised me: <<Emoji support is not 100%>> Wtf! In my opinion, that it worths mentioning that, shows at what point Apple marketing brain fucked the Apple device users... You buy a 2k$ computer, with dozens of high speed CPUs, for what? Putting stupid smileys everywhere? And in addition, this is more an application specific issue than a system one. Where do you use them? Emails, professional word documents?
  • D13Fd 6y ago
    If you're on a Mac, you use emojis in iMessage texts.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
• tarasmatsyk 6y ago
  I would put an asterisk near battery life as a downside, after switching to mpro 2020 13 realized that I overlooked batter life which is 7h at max, 5h if working aggressively (docker, builds), very disappointing. Macs always were laptops with great performance - battery life for me, so be careful with customizations and stick either to defaults or mpro 16 (which is like a plazma TV for me) PS. moving to 14" system76/thinkpad too this year
  • nunb 6y ago
    if thinkpad is an option do take a look at X2100: a thinkpad chassis & accessories, but with modern internals. it's basically "Peak Intel", a swan song for x86...
• dhosek 6y ago
  Things that I like about being on a Mac: - The ABC - Extended keyboard layout gives me easy access to diacriticalized letters like é or č as well as typographic characters like – and – - long battery life. I'm currently sharing a charger between my work laptop my personal laptop and my iPad and life is easy. - access to mainstream software like Office, Adobe etc. - I can easily use my iPad as an external monitor while I'm away from my desk. - The trackpad is so much more usable than any Windows laptop I've been given from work - I don't need to spend much time getting stuff in a workable state. Other than disabling caps lock and selecting ABC - Extended as my keyboard layout, I don't feel the need to do much customization on a new Mac.
  • se32point1 6y ago
    Counterpoints for Linux: - Compose key blows your "ABC - Extended layout out of the water." It's more powerful than anything else. - ... I never really use my XPS 13 without a charger, because I don't really travel around much, but it also has USB-C like all the "cool stuff." I would imagine with some tweaking I can get better battery life but I know it does last a while on standby. - You won't get mainstream-mainstream stuff on Linux, which is probably a problem for some, but for day-to-day usage many Adobe alternatives exist (Blender, Inkscape, Krita, GIMP), along with commercial and professional things (DAWs (eg. Renoise, Reaper, whatever), and DaVinci Resolve) - /shrugs VNC maybe? Although there are some pretty small monitors out there that should work. (I use HDMI monitors). Advantages of not being in the Apple ecosystem is that there is more freedom. - Use a keyboard and mouse. It's faster. And more useful. There are only so many things you can do with a trackpad. - You don't need to do much customization on Linux either (especially something like Pop!_OS or Ubuntu). Things are a lot better (not perfect, but better) than they were before. Nothing like Windows where you have to uninstall the bloatware though
    • dhosek 6y ago
      - I looked up the keyboard shortcuts for compose key and it seems like it takes a lot more typing to get to the characters I need than ABC - Extended: To get an acute accent I type opt-e o, for example, to get ó. The same on Linux is compose-'' o. Everything requires at least two characters with compose held down. There are a handful of characters/diacriticals that are shift-opt to reach, but the most common ones are less typing. Also muscle memory makes a difference. - Many of the alternatives to mainstream stuff have compatibility issues. Maybe this is better now than the last time I've dealt with them last, but part of why I use word is that I need to send documents to people who use word and I'd rather not have surprises (smaller thing but still significant—Word for the Mac shows the word count at the bottom of the window. Word on Windows doesn't (or at least didn't the last time I used it) and Pages on the Mac will show wordcount only in a mini window. I'm much more productive with a trackpad. MacOS also includes a number of shortcuts on the trackpad that don't work as well with a mouse (even Apple's magic mouse). I'd note that some of it is also that I've been trained into the shortcuts that I have on the Mac (both keyboard-based and trackpad-based). Muscle habit goes a long way towards keeping someone on a platform.
• bfrog 6y ago
  I find that running powertop on my Thinkpad I can go from modest battery times of like 5-6 hours on my t460 to all day battery times. Really wish it was just built-in to the distro or kernel in a more automatic way at this point.
• nunb 6y ago
  I switched from a MBP to a Thinkpad for flexibility & performance: hexa-core processor, 64GB RAM, 3 disks (NVME+SSD+HDD) running Linux (pop-os) with the intent of running OSX in VMs. I didn't like the iOS-ification of OSX, and this will let me run my beloved Snow Leopard, and even run some older aqua UI OSX versions as VMs. I'll probably get an ARM MacBook when they come out, as MacOS and iOS go well together... but 64GB is a HECK of a lot of Chrome tabs, and the 3:2 screen is as good as on my Chromebooks. Linux has certainly matured since I used it as my only desktop back in the comp.os.linux.advocacy days, which is just as well as I can't be bothered futzing with x.org config files any more. My X210 (nb51) "Thinkpad" gets about five hours battery life on a dodgy battery, but if I can find a real TP battery that should rise to 10-15, and I expect the ARM Macs to do 20-24 hours.
• butz 6y ago
  > Can't debug issues in Safari without borrowing a Mac You can debug layout issues to some extent using GNOME Web (also known as Epiphany). It uses same webkit engine as Safari. https://webkit.org/downloads/ https://webkit.org/downloads/ way at the bottom.
• choeger 6y ago
  The interesting thing here is that the absolute biggest disadvantage is the MacOS/iOS development. Apple's walled garden seems to be working as intended ;).
• acd 6y ago
  I went the same route from Mac to Lenovo Thinkpads. I have not looked back since. Did the Linux swap due to Mac OS X memory pressure issues with virtualization. Basically Mac OS X got a ported feature from iOS where they froze background application memory so that apps would be quick to restart and resume but that did not play nice with virtualization where you want all the memory you can get. Anyhow since most development is nowadays done for Linux server running Linux on the desktop makes sense. Docker works better on Linux with port mapping. For the battery time mentioned in the article one can swap batterys on Lenovo and there is a 9 cell battery which should get better run time hours.
• tarkin2 6y ago
  I often think about returning to a Linux laptop. Things, generally speaking, tend to “just work” on a mac, but it fails for a poweruser, even with various tools such as hammerspoon, since I oft want to morph the GUI to my liking - something apple and its gui fanaticism clearly doesn’t abide. The only thing that keeps me here is safari testing and occasional iphone development, two things that are unpleasant but necessary for my job; I hope I’m not forced to upgrade my mac and it’s the last mac I buy for at least half a decade more.
• fnord77 6y ago
  if you have an iphone: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1127798/how-to-run-a-iphone-backup-with-idevicebackup2 https://askubuntu.com/questions/1127798/how-to-run-a-iphone-...
• ideals 6y ago
  What are everyone's thoughts on buying a new MBP this year with the announcement of Apple Silicon replacing Intel in the near future?
  • cercatrova 6y ago
    I bought one this year because I need Windows (Bootcamp or Parallels) support, something that was confirmed to not be on the ARM Macs.
  • orangecat 6y ago
    Any Intel Mac is likely to be a paperweight in 5 years; if history is any guide Apple will drop support sooner rather than later, and installing Linux is tricky at best because of the T2 chip. Amusingly pre-T2 Macs may have better longevity.
• tkainrad 6y ago
  Welcome to Linux! ;) I have been using as my sole OS (except for some very occasional gaming on Windows) for 10 years. The longer you use it, the happier you become with your setup imo. There is a very detailed blog post about my setup that has grown over the years: https://tkainrad.dev/posts/setting-up-linux-workstation https://tkainrad.dev/posts/setting-up-linux-workstation It is about Ubuntu, but many sections apply to all distros. The most important productivity boost for me has been to switch from Bash to Zsh. Mainly because of some great plugins for Zsh, such as z, zsh-peco-history (better history search), zsh-autosuggestions, and zsh-syntax-highlighting. The blog post has copy-paste ready instructions to set it up.
  • laksdjfkasljdf 6y ago
    > Bash to Zsh Always remember that the whole debacle of people even moving away from Bash is because Apple and others are afraid of GPLv3. They dread having to contribute back to the open source projects they profit from. Most of the things I see for Zsh have been possible (and more portable) on Bash for decades. It's just the new javascript-like hype for Zsh that is new, not the capabilities. True, Bash have lots of baggage, but half the portability and performance trickery is also because of that baggage. It's impossible to have the niceties Bash offer without some of the tradeoffs, and every new shell learned that the hard way.
• jonpurdy 6y ago
  TL;DR: if on the fence about replacing a MacBook Pro with a ThinkPad, give the 2020 MBP a try. It's bought me another three years of time to stick with the Mac and see how the ARM transition plays out. I wanted to let others in my situation (longtime Mac user, avoided the butterfly keyboards so much that I considered a Thinkpad with Linux) know: the new keyboard in my 13-inch 2020 is amazing. I upgraded from my 2015 to this 2020 a couple of weeks ago under duress: my old machine failed me during an interview videoconference and I couldn't have that happen again. Ran out to buy a new machine and return it if I hated the new keyboard (I expected it to be somewhere between the old keyboard and the terrible butterfly, but at least it has an inverted-T.) It's spectacular. Key travel is awesome, and it's nice to have inverted-T and dedicated escape key back. This machine is also way faster than my old one thanks to (2x as many cores [thanks to 2018 model]) and the 10th gen stuff (much faster RAM and graphics, etc.). ARM is coming soon, but there's a lot of uncertainty about that transition and I'm happy to have a highly performant machine that will last me at least three years (when my AppleCare will run out).
• NewOrderNow 6y ago
  There are so many small things that really frustrate me with the Mac and understandably considering I am back on Linux. However, I have a 2010 15" MacBook Pro that I bought used. It is god awful to work on, but I can still run scripts, ssh, browse the web (for the most part), and play emulators. This is thing is slow and bordering useless, but I genuinely never had any tech product for 10 years work for well. 10 years, only changed the charger and HD once. Everything else is still working, including a really nice touch pad.
  • dijksterhuis 6y ago
    > This is thing is slow and bordering useless, but I genuinely never had any tech product for 10 years work for well. 10 years, only changed the charger and HD once. Everything else is still working, including a really nice touch pad. Same here! I still do web browsing, mail and audio editing on my 10 year old 15" MBP. My FireWire audio interface still hooks up perfectly all the time. The 2010 MBP range honestly seem like the last ones that were built to last. I've upgraded the OS HD to an SSD (made a world of difference) and replaced the CD/DVD with a second 1TB storage drive. Looking to move to a system 76 or purism as most of my development is happening on a Linux desktop. I've been way more productive and enjoyed myself more developing on Linux. Not overly concerned about the trackpad conversations -- I like me so buttons to tap. Only concern is battery usage, but the system76 lemur pro seems to have that sorted pretty well.
• jononomo 6y ago
  I simply cannot get over using non-Apple trackpads. The trackpad is such an important part of a laptop's user interface. Obviously I wouldn't drive a car with flat tires, so why would I use a laptop with a crappy trackpad?
  • nr2x 6y ago
    Under appreciated is that macOS is largely a touch-based system now with the magic trackpads. If you configure three-finger drag in accessibility settings you never have to click. Granted it’s not a touch screen, but in my view it’s a touch- and gesture-based system. Using a non-Apple trackpad feels like going back in time and using touch screen devices with keyboards (eg Win 10 laptops) is incredibly annoying.
    • dullgiulio 6y ago
      I have been using double tap to select (and simply drag) on Linux for years, never had to click. And my touchpad is far from magic...
  • brightball 6y ago
    I will say, my Dell Precision 7710's trackpad works very, very well. I was really concerned when I migrated away from a Mac 3 years ago because I kept reading stuff like this but was very pleasantly surprised. In contrast, I don't understand the Thinkpad hype. Everyone that I've ever tried has just felt low quality to me. I don't understand why people like them so much.
• JJMalina 6y ago
  I didn't know about Darktable or Kdenlive, so I'll have to check those out. Peek is awesome for GIF recording. I've been using a ThinkPad X1 Carbon running Xubuntu since 2016. Before that I was using a MacBook Pro. The things I like about this machine/Linux are - It's light - The keyboard is great/better - The battery is really good coupled with the low resource usage of Xubuntu (except when I have Zoom, Docker, and lots of Firefox tabs) - Don't have any trouble with audio when using Bluetooth - I don't have to worry about MacOS breaking my dev environment - Setting up dev environment is a breeze Things I dislike - CPU is not as powerful as a MacBook Pro - The most recent X/Ubuntu broke wake up from sleep - Some software doesn't have a Linux equivalent (Webex) - If you want to dual boot Linux and Windows, getting full disk encryption on X/Ubuntu is challenging - Plugging into a non-hidpi monitor is janky because it can't change dpi per screen - Speakers on this machine suck For me doing strictly software development, the benefits of a stable and easy to use environment outweigh the warts of Linux. If I were to get a new machine I'd consider Lenovo again. The new Dell XPS also looks great. I might also give Windows and WSL2 a try in my dual OS desktop. Windows feels a lot smoother compared to Linux (on a very powerful desktop though), but it's constantly notifying you about things which is a distraction.
  • lostdog 6y ago
    I'm on my 3rd X1 (4th if you count my work laptop), and I would be completely happy, except that it's USB-C ports are somehow broken. Both machines have flakey connections to both USB-C docks I've tried, sometimes dropping keystrokes or network packets. It's obnoxious to use, and there's no clear way to debug or diagnose the issue, and sadly I think my next purchase cannot be a Lenovo.
    • JJMalina 6y ago
      That's a good point. Sorry to hear that. I have the 5th gen which has a USB-C power port and another USB-C and two other USBs. The USB-C power definitely wiggles a lot when it's plugged which makes me concerned though I haven't had a problem. The new Dell XPS 15 has an aluminum chassis, so I wonder if that would eliminate this issue. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-15-laptop/spd/xps-15-9500-laptop/xn9500cto200s#features_section https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-15-lapt...
• unethical_ban 6y ago
  The hardware on Mac is unparalleled. I can't hardly stand using my Thinkpad touchpad after having a Macbook work laptop. I know the keyboard on the recent macs have drawn criticism, but for me they work fine and I have fewer mistypes than when I am on the thinkpad. And battery life on macos is great, when not on Zoom. And Ubuntu 20.04 doesn't recognize my 2018 Thinkpad camera.
• kreetx 6y ago
  Is it not possible to run linux on the recent MacBook Pro's?
• temptemptemp111 6y ago
  If only Thinkpads had good OLED displays as an option.
• j45 6y ago
  Devs can spend a lot of time getting Macs and Window computers to behave like Linux.. especially given the idiosyncrasies that pop up with docker on them. It does seem reasonable to develop on Linux.. for Linux. I've heard of a few recent experiences specifically using Ubuntu 19/20 on a Thinkpad X1 Carbon/T4xx of some type resulting in a really nice experience, including optimized battery life. While Ubuntu might not be my desktop of choice, it does seem to have done the most that I can find to work well on laptops from a battery life/driver support/sleep perspective. I have it loaded on a desktop and it's working flawlessly, and I continue to try and find an issue with it. As a development environment, it may be something to consider seriously. Part of me is wondering if an Ubuntu/Linux laptop could open up a way to use an iPad as a secondary computing device that where I could continue to enjoy the things that I wanted there.
• scottlocklin 6y ago
  I made that decision in 2011 or so; still use the same thinkpad hardware, and it's still faster and better than the 2017 mbp I was issued by work. Even if it was a shittier experience (kubuntu is vastly better than osx in every pertinent way), I'd continue using the thinkpad for the trackpoint and keyboard.
• inoffensivename 6y ago
  I've been using the Lenovo X1 Carbon with Debian and I couldn't be happier with it.
• mapgrep 6y ago
  I am in the same boat, except my daily laptop is a ThinkPad X1 Carbon instead of a T480, coming from a specced out Macbook Air 11. My feelings are remarkably close to this. For anyone who spends a lot of time in emacs, browser, the terminal, with media editing as a secondary concern, I think it's a great setup. The ThinkPad hardware is stellar. I would underline what he points out about the battery being a relative shortcoming though. Which is important for anyone who likes being away from a power outlet for a good while. I think linux has historically really lagged on controlling battery use, Apple has exploited its tight hardware/software integration for years in this regard, and I only see this spread widening frankly. The ARM Macbooks will likely be absolute marathon runners in comparison to any linux laptop, at least for a good while. I'd love to be wrong.
• loosetypes 6y ago
  Is there a metric for battery performance while the machine’s asleep? That’s been my only gripe in moving from a MacBook Air to an XPS running Ubuntu a little over a year ago. Battery life is comparable in active usage. But if I close my XPS lid and then, for whatever reason, don’t use it for a day or two, I’ll be at zero battery. I don’t remember this ever being something to even think about with my Mac laptop.
  • asciimov 6y ago
    The issue is that you are sleeping the computer vs hibernating it. Sleep is still powering the ram. Hibernate writes the ram contents out to a file and shuts the computer off. It often takes some tinkering to get hibernation to work, if at all. That is why your computer kills the battery in a few days.
• rbanffy 6y ago
  A sweet spot I found is a generic laptop (a good Dell or Thinkpad, with the least imaginative hardware possible so Linux runs happy) and a Mac desktop (can be an iMac or a Mini) for the Mac-ish stuff. You need to pay attention to what can and can't be upgraded, however. The newest Mini can't have the storage upgraded (you should probably buy it maxed out), but can upgrade the memory to 64GB, so it's cheaper to get the 8GB and then upgrade it yourself. The 21 inch iMac can't be upgraded, so YMMV depending on what you get.
• puranjay 6y ago
  I moved to a Thinkpad from Macbook. Honestly, I love the form factor, the keyboard, and the all black finish. But the screen is still below par - 400 nits max brightness is too low. And the trackpad is substantially worse than Macbook's. I'll still keep it because it offers something that Macbook doesn't anymore: reliability
• princevegeta89 6y ago
  I always find polished Linux DE's like cinnamon, Gnome 3, Pantheon and unity to be top notch and more usable than OSX. I'm surprised Mac OS has never had an overhaul of the look, on their windows, buttons, icons or anything. On the other hand, I absolutely find it to be nightmare to navigate in Finder - the shortcuts are a mess.. and there is no address bar at all! Other than that I also do find Mac OS to be slower than Linux due to some bloat. On an overall scale, software availability is almost on par with Mac OS. The only drawback for Linux is graphics applications like Photoshop aren't just either available, or not hardware accelerated properly.
  • tgv 6y ago
    - You can get the directory structure in Finder windows. - The short cuts are not a mess, they're just not what you're used to. - macOS may still look similar to previous versions, but, to my taste, anything touched by gnome is a macOS ripoff that looks downright oversized and is either gaudy or too dark. - Today I tried to get a database manager for mongodb on Ubuntu 20.04 that is more than a wrapper around the command line. Nowhere to be found. And let's not mention video editing, music making, and gaming. You prefer Linux, fine, but please don't diss the rest.
    • princevegeta89 6y ago
      Gnome is a ripoff? I haven't ever come across this anywhere. It's been around for a long long time really. It's near perfect for what it is, and it's also nicely customisable. Regarding the shortcuts, I found Enter, Backspace, using Space Bar for selecting, etc. to be simpler compared to holding down cmd+up/down, and other combinations.
  • laksdjfkasljdf 6y ago
    openbox is more usable than OSX. Heck anything besides twm is more usable than osx. and osx keeps getting worse and worse. What's up with the maximized windows now?! Not to mention you still can't command+tab between two terminal windows.
• asciimov 6y ago
  Some tips from someone who's been doing this linux laptop thing for a long while now (6 year's ago, I replaced my aging MBP with a cheap HP) 0. TAKE NOTES! Make a setup doc that keeps up with the issues of setting up your computer. ie... I have to do some funky things to get my onboard speakers to work, I never remember how to do it, but my notes remember it for me. 1. The trackpad will suck. Just get an external trackball or mouse, use it instead. 2. Pay for a good built-in keyboard. 3. Make sure you can swap your network card. I have my preference on manufacturer. For historical reasons I typically replace whatever it comes with. 4. If graphics matter to you, avoid NVidia GPU's. 5. Avoid laptops with restrictive bioses. (wifi whitelists, wont let you change boot order but supports two drives, etc)
  • stinos 6y ago
    Wrt note taking for setting up software: I gave up on that in favor of a shell script for initial setup, and pretty much everything else is in Ansible. Works for almost everything, does take some work and sometimes needs updating. But also serves as notes by itself. Anyway the main advantage over notes for me is that I don't have to copy-paste a bunch of commands from notes anymore, and that large parts of it are common to multiple computers I use.
    • asciimov 6y ago
      Shell scripting is good when you can use it. Some software I use is manually patched and that doesn't lend itself to automation. The notes are also geared for the times I move distros or change a major component in the system. I include what I did, why I did it, where the info came from, and why I removed it or decided to go a different direction.
• oliver101 6y ago
  Same experience but reverted to Mac because the hardware is unbeatable. Had MacBooks since the white clamshells and eventually wanted to go full linux. So bought the X1 Carbon and really regretted it. Screen and trackpad were by far the worst by comparison. So I’ve returned. Picked up a Mid-2015 15” MBP a few months back and haven't looked back.
• TomVDB 6y ago
  13 years after Apple introduced their groundbreaking trackpads, I still haven't seen a worthy alternative. It's the single most important reason for me to stay with a MacBook.
• cc23 6y ago
  As a C++ backend/distributed systems engineer, I cant imagine working on anything except Linux. I even use Linux on my personal laptop. It's a Thinkpad actually. Yes, the touch pad on Mac is better. But Linux is just so much quicker and lighter, and really the only major annoying thing I've run into is electronically signing PDFs.
• z3ncyberpunk 6y ago
  Thinkpad X1 C7 + Pop!_OS 20.04. Couldn't be happier. Might have stayed if apple kept the 15" MBP but that was even too uncomfortable and I have no desire to lug around a 16" laptop. At that point I'll just get a desktop. The X1's 14" form factor is perfect
• sriram_sun 6y ago
  My 2013 MBP is chugging along with Linux and OSX dual boot. I haven't logged into OSX in over 6mo. Only upgrade was a 2TB SSD.
• interskh 6y ago
  Has nobody mentioned Dell xps? I've been using xps for a few years with archlinux.. It's been mostly great so far.