3 ms·

It’s disgusting that nothing will be done because everyone is addicted to cheap goods from China. If we cannot break free from current economic arrangements eve

It’s disgusting that nothing will be done because everyone is addicted to cheap goods from China. If we cannot break free from current economic arrangements even after the pandemic, we will never be able to do so.

microcolonel 6y ago
> It’s disgusting that nothing will be done because everyone is addicted to cheap goods from China I think it's better to shift from that, directly to not letting people (particularly those with means) to make excuses for using PRC goods when it would be almost as convenient to use goods from anywhere else. It's a start, compared to just letting people say “oh well, guess I'll just give in completely”.
amelius 6y ago
Any trade agreement should have basic human rights mentioned in the first paragraph. This is something we can actually fight for.
- MichaelApproved 6y ago
  Even if it’s in there, it won’t be enforced. Manufacturing is entrenched in China. Before you can threaten China, you need to have a backup plan. Otherwise, it’ll call your bluff, like it’s doing already.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    > Even if it’s in there, it won’t be enforced. Please stop spreading learned helplessness. Problems are solved in baby steps. You start with legislation. Without it, nothing will proceed.
    - franga2000 6y ago
      I don't see their comment as hopeless, but more as a necessary shift of target. We can demand all we want, but as long as we can't survive without them, we have no leverage. Punish businesses for violations in their supply chain and make them move production back home. Only then can you start demanding. Orange Man tried to skip the first step and you see how well that worked...
      - amelius 6y ago
        Why call it a shift of target? If I have to get groceries, but to do that I have to put on my shoes first, is that then a shift of target? We just have to make sure that in X years, the trade agreements have been updated. We can leave the rest to the politicians.
        franga2000 6y ago
        Because trade agreements are simply the wrong target. Even without a trade agreement with China, companies would still use Chinese parts if it were cheaper. Through things like blatant tax evasion, countless privacy violations and the like, companies have shown that they value money over absolutely everything, including the law. We can put whatever we want in the trade agreements and it won't matter. But if the companies are held accountable for their supply chain through high fines and things like even license suspensions, they will work to solve the problem because it's in their interest.
- luckylion 6y ago
  > Any trade agreement should have basic human rights mentioned in the first paragraph. And which regional or global power could sign those, if that had any binding power?
apta 6y ago
It's sad, but we should start somewhere: www.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/

microcolonel 6y ago

> It’s disgusting that nothing will be done because everyone is addicted to cheap goods from China I think it's better to shift from that, directly to not letting people (particularly those with means) to make excuses for using PRC goods when it would be almost as convenient to use goods from anywhere else. It's a start, compared to just letting people say “oh well, guess I'll just give in completely”.

amelius 6y ago

Any trade agreement should have basic human rights mentioned in the first paragraph. This is something we can actually fight for.

MichaelApproved 6y ago
Even if it’s in there, it won’t be enforced. Manufacturing is entrenched in China. Before you can threaten China, you need to have a backup plan. Otherwise, it’ll call your bluff, like it’s doing already.
- fsflover 6y ago
  > Even if it’s in there, it won’t be enforced. Please stop spreading learned helplessness. Problems are solved in baby steps. You start with legislation. Without it, nothing will proceed.
  - franga2000 6y ago
    I don't see their comment as hopeless, but more as a necessary shift of target. We can demand all we want, but as long as we can't survive without them, we have no leverage. Punish businesses for violations in their supply chain and make them move production back home. Only then can you start demanding. Orange Man tried to skip the first step and you see how well that worked...
    - amelius 6y ago
      Why call it a shift of target? If I have to get groceries, but to do that I have to put on my shoes first, is that then a shift of target? We just have to make sure that in X years, the trade agreements have been updated. We can leave the rest to the politicians.
      - franga2000 6y ago
        Because trade agreements are simply the wrong target. Even without a trade agreement with China, companies would still use Chinese parts if it were cheaper. Through things like blatant tax evasion, countless privacy violations and the like, companies have shown that they value money over absolutely everything, including the law. We can put whatever we want in the trade agreements and it won't matter. But if the companies are held accountable for their supply chain through high fines and things like even license suspensions, they will work to solve the problem because it's in their interest.
luckylion 6y ago
> Any trade agreement should have basic human rights mentioned in the first paragraph. And which regional or global power could sign those, if that had any binding power?

apta 6y ago

It's sad, but we should start somewhere: www.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/