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> The subject of this article certainly displayed poor judgement, but wasn’t any kind of danger to society without this scenario constructed by the police. I d

> The subject of this article certainly displayed poor judgement, but wasn’t any kind of danger to society without this scenario constructed by the police. I don't agree. The whole point of sting operations is that they enable police to catch people that pose a danger to society by catching them in the act. In this case we have a man in his early 20s caught actively trying to meet a 13yo girl for sex. The same man stated he already had sex with 5 or 6 other girls like this, although he didn't specified their ages.

shajznnckfke 6y ago
I’d agree with you if the supposed victim wasn’t a 24 year old who provided pictures of themselves in the lead-up to the meeting. To me, it reads like the police constructed an interaction where it would have been clear to the target of the sting in the moment that he was engaging with an adult (which was indeed the truth), but that included a few phrases that show evidence of guilt when removed from that moment. I think the police could have demonstrated much more convincing evidence of guilt if they had someone who looked like a 13 year old answer the door, and recorded the man’s reaction.
- rumanator 6y ago
  > I'd agree with you if the supposed victim wasn’t a 24 year old who provided pictures of themselves in the lead-up to the meeting. That's quite the disingenuous take on the case. You're just cherry-picking the age of the police officer tasked with the sting. During the whole sting the same agent repeatedly made it very clear that the girl he was trying to meet to have sex was 13 years old. That fact didn't discouraged him the slightest and, just like he did 5 or 6 times before, we went to meet the 13 year old girl to have sex with her.
  - shajznnckfke 6y ago
    I think you’ve made a big error in your reading of this story if you got the impression that he regularly hooked up with underage girls. He regularly had sex with women, like many men. A history of having sex with women is not evidence of him being a child predator. Neither is going to meet up with someone who looks 24. If the police wanted to target actual child predators, they wouldn’t be sending out photos of 24 year olds. It seems like the were targeting non-child-predators with bad judgement. Maybe finding the real predators is too much work.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > I think you’ve made a big error in your reading of this story if you got the impression that he regularly hooked up with underage girls. I said he admitted he already had sex with 5 or 6 girls of unspecified age the same way he was caught trying to have sex with a 13 year old girl. That's what he did, and that was his motivation when he knowingly tried to meet that 13 year old girl. > A history of having sex with women is not evidence of him being a child predator. Trying to meet 13 year old girls for sex is the evidence of him being a child predator. > Neither is going to meet up with someone who looks 24. The girl repeatedly stated, and made it quite clear, that she was 13 years old. That fact, which was made quite clear to him and he acknowledged and fully understood she was a 13 year old girl. Still, the fact that the girl he tried to meet repeatedly stated quite clearly she was 13 years old was not deemed by the criminal as a good enough reason not o have sex with her.
      - shajznnckfke 6y ago
        So just to be clear, is it your belief that Craigslist personal ads are mostly written by children? A person who says they met up with some girls from Craigslist before should be presumed to be voluntarily confessing that they have been meeting children?
        rumanator 6y ago
        > So just to be clear, is it your belief that Craigslist personal ads are mostly written by children? The ad the convicted sex offender replied to was explicitly written by children, a fact that he was repeatedly made well aware and acknowledged during his arrest. > A person who says they met up with some girls from Craigslist before should be presumed to be voluntarily confessing that they have been meeting children? He replies to an ad posted by a 13 year old girl, and he was quite aware the underage girl he was trying to have sex with was indeed 13 years old.
        shajznnckfke 6y ago
        There was no age mentioned in the ad.
  - stickfigure 6y ago
    Direct link to the picture: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/08/30/magazine/30mag-NetNanny-image-03/30mag-NetNanny-image-03-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/08/30/magazine/30mag-Ne... I'd acquit.
    - sundvor 6y ago
      Exactly. Would be interesting if a few people here would show their partners or friends this picture, zero content: please guess or estimate this person's age. My wife: Late 30s.
  - choo-t 6y ago
    >During the whole sting the same agent repeatedly made it very clear that the girl he was trying to meet to have sex was 13 years old. The 24yo made it very clear that she was 13yo, while using photo of herself at 24yo ? How could two opposites informations could pose as making anything clear ?
    - danielheath 6y ago
      Appearance is only a reliable predictor of age for 95-ish percent of people. While slightly rare, it’s not at all unheard of for a child to look like an adult (or vice versa).
  - fuzxi 6y ago
    >During the whole sting the same agent repeatedly made it very clear that the girl he was trying to meet to have sex was 13 years old. No. One officer sent the man pictures of a 24 year old woman and lied to him that she was 13. That is anything but clear. I might agree with you if the police had sent no pictures, or pictures of a minor.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > No. One officer sent the man pictures of a 24 year old woman and lied to him that she was 13. No, the officer conducting the sting happened to be 24 years old. Yet, not only was the girl making it quite clear she was indeed 13 years old but also the whole sting operation was conducted based on the depiction of a 13 year old girl. Even the article, in spite of its spin, makes it quite clear that the 13 year old girl the man tried to meet for sex sounded like an immature teenager.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - fuzxi 6y ago
        >No, the officer conducting the sting happened to be 24 years old. And happened to look like a 24 year old. >Even the article, in spite of its spin, makes it quite clear that the 13 year old girl the man tried to meet for sex sounded like an immature teenager. From the article: >She used slang a 13-year-old probably wouldn’t know, like “FTP” — “[expletive] the police” — that originated in ’80s hip-hop. The vulgarities and snide tone seemed too adult. >Detective Robert Givens, a middle-aged man, testified that he had written all the Gamer Gurl emails and texts. How many middle-aged men have you met who can accurately write thirteen-year-old girls?
        rumanator 6y ago
        > And happened to look like a 24 year old. Would it matter to you if it was a middle-aged man with a moustache? I mean, the same sex offender also admitted he once tried to meet a girl for sex even though it ended up being a 70 year old man. Doesn't seem to be a problem. > From the article: What's your point? That children never use clichés or memes or try to act older than they are? I mean, do you believe a 13 year old girl that states quite clearly she is 13 years old is actually in her 50s if she mentions Miami Vice? > How many middle-aged men have you met who can accurately write thirteen-year-old girls? According to the sex offender caught in the sting, quite a few times. In fact, the article stated he once met a 70 year old man when he thought he was meeting a young girl.
  - totetsu 6y ago
    The article also hints that this could have been an adult RPing as a 13 year old, and that would not have been outside of the possibilities for members of that community, and that the photos, and the person he saw were an adult. Its not completely B/W what he was trying to do.
    - tempestn 6y ago
      And the standard is supposed to be "beyond a reasonable doubt". Surely there was at least some doubt of his intent here.
choo-t 6y ago
>In this case we have a man in his early 20s caught actively trying to meet a 13yo girl for sex. Odd, the article describe a 24yo girl actively trying to meet a 20yo for sex, advertising herself on a 18+ website, using recent photo of her, photo in which she is well beyond the age of consent of any country on earth.
- rumanator 6y ago
  > Odd, the article describe a 24yo girl actively trying to meet a 20yo for sex The article describes a sting operation led by a 24 year-old police officer that caught a man actively trying to have sex with a girl he was fully aware was 13 year old. He repeatedly asked her age, she repeatedly made it quite clear she was 13 years old, and he proceeded to try to meet up with the underage girl with for the explicit intent of having sex with her.
  - choo-t 6y ago
    >girl he was fully aware was 13 year old. You are mixing up fiction and fact. She wasn't 13, at best she was (poorly) trying to pose as a 13yo. >He repeatedly asked her age, she repeatedly made it quite clear she was 13 years old He correctly assumed her age despite her lying about it: “why did you post an ad in craigslist if your 13? You mean 23?” Keep in mind she was on a adult website, actively searching for sex and send a photo of her as an adult. >he proceeded to try to meet up with the underage girl with for the explicit intent of having sex with her. Neither the girl on the photo nor the girl receiving him was underage, nor she look underage.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > You are mixing up fiction and fact. She wasn't 13, at best she was (poorly) trying to pose as a 13yo. The sex offender caught in the sting was trying to meet a 13 years old girl. That fact was even admitted by the sex offender before, during, and after the arrest. > He correctly assumed her age despite her lying about it: No, he tried to downplay the fact he was actively trying to have sex with an underage girl by claiming that, when he was caught trying to have sex with an underage girl, no officer from the police department that arrested him when he drove to the 13 year old girl's address with the explicit purpose of having sex with her was really an underage girl.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> The whole point of sting operations is that they enable police to catch people that pose a danger to society by catching them in the act. No, the point (at least of the these sting operations) is that they provide a low-effort way of producing large volumes of convictions for long-sentence offenses. > In this case we have a man in his early 20s caught actively trying to meet a 13yo girl for sex. Was he, though? He was actively trying to meet a person who he gave concrete signs of not believing was 13 years old, in large part because they were neither 13 nor doing a particularly good job of simulating being 13.

shajznnckfke 6y ago

I’d agree with you if the supposed victim wasn’t a 24 year old who provided pictures of themselves in the lead-up to the meeting. To me, it reads like the police constructed an interaction where it would have been clear to the target of the sting in the moment that he was engaging with an adult (which was indeed the truth), but that included a few phrases that show evidence of guilt when removed from that moment. I think the police could have demonstrated much more convincing evidence of guilt if they had someone who looked like a 13 year old answer the door, and recorded the man’s reaction.

rumanator 6y ago
> I'd agree with you if the supposed victim wasn’t a 24 year old who provided pictures of themselves in the lead-up to the meeting. That's quite the disingenuous take on the case. You're just cherry-picking the age of the police officer tasked with the sting. During the whole sting the same agent repeatedly made it very clear that the girl he was trying to meet to have sex was 13 years old. That fact didn't discouraged him the slightest and, just like he did 5 or 6 times before, we went to meet the 13 year old girl to have sex with her.
- shajznnckfke 6y ago
  I think you’ve made a big error in your reading of this story if you got the impression that he regularly hooked up with underage girls. He regularly had sex with women, like many men. A history of having sex with women is not evidence of him being a child predator. Neither is going to meet up with someone who looks 24. If the police wanted to target actual child predators, they wouldn’t be sending out photos of 24 year olds. It seems like the were targeting non-child-predators with bad judgement. Maybe finding the real predators is too much work.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > I think you’ve made a big error in your reading of this story if you got the impression that he regularly hooked up with underage girls. I said he admitted he already had sex with 5 or 6 girls of unspecified age the same way he was caught trying to have sex with a 13 year old girl. That's what he did, and that was his motivation when he knowingly tried to meet that 13 year old girl. > A history of having sex with women is not evidence of him being a child predator. Trying to meet 13 year old girls for sex is the evidence of him being a child predator. > Neither is going to meet up with someone who looks 24. The girl repeatedly stated, and made it quite clear, that she was 13 years old. That fact, which was made quite clear to him and he acknowledged and fully understood she was a 13 year old girl. Still, the fact that the girl he tried to meet repeatedly stated quite clearly she was 13 years old was not deemed by the criminal as a good enough reason not o have sex with her.
    - shajznnckfke 6y ago
      So just to be clear, is it your belief that Craigslist personal ads are mostly written by children? A person who says they met up with some girls from Craigslist before should be presumed to be voluntarily confessing that they have been meeting children?
      - rumanator 6y ago
        > So just to be clear, is it your belief that Craigslist personal ads are mostly written by children? The ad the convicted sex offender replied to was explicitly written by children, a fact that he was repeatedly made well aware and acknowledged during his arrest. > A person who says they met up with some girls from Craigslist before should be presumed to be voluntarily confessing that they have been meeting children? He replies to an ad posted by a 13 year old girl, and he was quite aware the underage girl he was trying to have sex with was indeed 13 years old.
        shajznnckfke 6y ago
        There was no age mentioned in the ad.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  Direct link to the picture: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/08/30/magazine/30mag-NetNanny-image-03/30mag-NetNanny-image-03-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/08/30/magazine/30mag-Ne... I'd acquit.
  - sundvor 6y ago
    Exactly. Would be interesting if a few people here would show their partners or friends this picture, zero content: please guess or estimate this person's age. My wife: Late 30s.
- choo-t 6y ago
  >During the whole sting the same agent repeatedly made it very clear that the girl he was trying to meet to have sex was 13 years old. The 24yo made it very clear that she was 13yo, while using photo of herself at 24yo ? How could two opposites informations could pose as making anything clear ?
  - danielheath 6y ago
    Appearance is only a reliable predictor of age for 95-ish percent of people. While slightly rare, it’s not at all unheard of for a child to look like an adult (or vice versa).
- fuzxi 6y ago
  >During the whole sting the same agent repeatedly made it very clear that the girl he was trying to meet to have sex was 13 years old. No. One officer sent the man pictures of a 24 year old woman and lied to him that she was 13. That is anything but clear. I might agree with you if the police had sent no pictures, or pictures of a minor.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > No. One officer sent the man pictures of a 24 year old woman and lied to him that she was 13. No, the officer conducting the sting happened to be 24 years old. Yet, not only was the girl making it quite clear she was indeed 13 years old but also the whole sting operation was conducted based on the depiction of a 13 year old girl. Even the article, in spite of its spin, makes it quite clear that the 13 year old girl the man tried to meet for sex sounded like an immature teenager.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - fuzxi 6y ago
      >No, the officer conducting the sting happened to be 24 years old. And happened to look like a 24 year old. >Even the article, in spite of its spin, makes it quite clear that the 13 year old girl the man tried to meet for sex sounded like an immature teenager. From the article: >She used slang a 13-year-old probably wouldn’t know, like “FTP” — “[expletive] the police” — that originated in ’80s hip-hop. The vulgarities and snide tone seemed too adult. >Detective Robert Givens, a middle-aged man, testified that he had written all the Gamer Gurl emails and texts. How many middle-aged men have you met who can accurately write thirteen-year-old girls?
      - rumanator 6y ago
        > And happened to look like a 24 year old. Would it matter to you if it was a middle-aged man with a moustache? I mean, the same sex offender also admitted he once tried to meet a girl for sex even though it ended up being a 70 year old man. Doesn't seem to be a problem. > From the article: What's your point? That children never use clichés or memes or try to act older than they are? I mean, do you believe a 13 year old girl that states quite clearly she is 13 years old is actually in her 50s if she mentions Miami Vice? > How many middle-aged men have you met who can accurately write thirteen-year-old girls? According to the sex offender caught in the sting, quite a few times. In fact, the article stated he once met a 70 year old man when he thought he was meeting a young girl.
- totetsu 6y ago
  The article also hints that this could have been an adult RPing as a 13 year old, and that would not have been outside of the possibilities for members of that community, and that the photos, and the person he saw were an adult. Its not completely B/W what he was trying to do.
  - tempestn 6y ago
    And the standard is supposed to be "beyond a reasonable doubt". Surely there was at least some doubt of his intent here.

choo-t 6y ago

>In this case we have a man in his early 20s caught actively trying to meet a 13yo girl for sex. Odd, the article describe a 24yo girl actively trying to meet a 20yo for sex, advertising herself on a 18+ website, using recent photo of her, photo in which she is well beyond the age of consent of any country on earth.

rumanator 6y ago
> Odd, the article describe a 24yo girl actively trying to meet a 20yo for sex The article describes a sting operation led by a 24 year-old police officer that caught a man actively trying to have sex with a girl he was fully aware was 13 year old. He repeatedly asked her age, she repeatedly made it quite clear she was 13 years old, and he proceeded to try to meet up with the underage girl with for the explicit intent of having sex with her.
- choo-t 6y ago
  >girl he was fully aware was 13 year old. You are mixing up fiction and fact. She wasn't 13, at best she was (poorly) trying to pose as a 13yo. >He repeatedly asked her age, she repeatedly made it quite clear she was 13 years old He correctly assumed her age despite her lying about it: “why did you post an ad in craigslist if your 13? You mean 23?” Keep in mind she was on a adult website, actively searching for sex and send a photo of her as an adult. >he proceeded to try to meet up with the underage girl with for the explicit intent of having sex with her. Neither the girl on the photo nor the girl receiving him was underage, nor she look underage.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > You are mixing up fiction and fact. She wasn't 13, at best she was (poorly) trying to pose as a 13yo. The sex offender caught in the sting was trying to meet a 13 years old girl. That fact was even admitted by the sex offender before, during, and after the arrest. > He correctly assumed her age despite her lying about it: No, he tried to downplay the fact he was actively trying to have sex with an underage girl by claiming that, when he was caught trying to have sex with an underage girl, no officer from the police department that arrested him when he drove to the 13 year old girl's address with the explicit purpose of having sex with her was really an underage girl.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> The whole point of sting operations is that they enable police to catch people that pose a danger to society by catching them in the act. No, the point (at least of the these sting operations) is that they provide a low-effort way of producing large volumes of convictions for long-sentence offenses. > In this case we have a man in his early 20s caught actively trying to meet a 13yo girl for sex. Was he, though? He was actively trying to meet a person who he gave concrete signs of not believing was 13 years old, in large part because they were neither 13 nor doing a particularly good job of simulating being 13.