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I submitted with a hesitant title because I'd genuinely love to know, and I'm surprised there isn't more concrete info on this that's readily available. My stro

by spenvo 6y ago

I submitted with a hesitant title because I'd genuinely love to know, and I'm surprised there isn't more concrete info on this that's readily available. My strong suspicion is that they don't, and 9to5mac editor has chimed in on twitter saying: "Definitely feels muddy, but think Apple is probably considering FB ads as part of the 'outside goods and services' category. Guideline 3.1.5a makes apps use direct payment for those". If that explanation is true ^, then it's pretty rich, because Apple recently aimed to get 30% of virtual experiences offered through Airbnb. How would those not be considered "outside goods and services" when they involve people outside the app providing goods and services? [0] Others are saying Apple doesn't see it as an "in app purchase"; however, I can click "Place Order" for an ad in the iOS app... I'd call that an in-app purchase! Can all companies let you buy digital stuff within the app with non-Apple payments or in a bill-you-later manner? Just ads? Almost certainly there have been behind-closed-doors discussions on this, as the line has been arbitrarily drawn (either way) to include/exclude this massive company from the 30% tax. Indies don't have the same clarity on the rules; for example, Marco Arment's app Overcast sells ads, but doesn't complete transactions in the app because he was worried he'd need to give up 30%. Like with Apple's quiet program that let Amazon and a couple other token companies get a separate deal on content-app rules [1]: how can small companies on the store know when to press Apple on some rules and not on others (without retaining lawyers)? It's just baffling because Facebook has recently whipped up quite a stir [2] around Apple requiring 30% of creator revenue, yet none of the articles mention this point about Facebook ads getting/not-getting a 30% tax for (probably the better part of) the past decade ... their bread and butter! Furthermore, Facebook is whining about Apple making IDFA tracking opt-in on iOS, yet this company has benefited HUGELY from the fact Apple didn't do that from the start AND somehow decided not to charge 30% on its ad buys on mobile. [0] - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/technology/apple-app-store-airbnb-classpass.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/technology/apple-app-stor... [1] - https://stratechery.com/2020/apple-amazon-and-common-enemies/ https://stratechery.com/2020/apple-amazon-and-common-enemies... [2]- https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=798&tbm=nws&ei=RRdIX5qlKIuStQWOqY2gCg&q=facebook+fan+event+apple+30%25+livestream&oq=facebook+fan+event+apple+30%25+livestream&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i299k1l2.7343.9484.0.10069.11.11.0.0.0.0.193.1171.3j7.10.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.5.646....0.d2Y-NrDiuA8 https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=798&tbm=nws&ei=RR...

the_reformation 6y ago
A virtual experience happens entirely in the Airbnb app right?
- spenvo 6y ago
  Eh, I guess? It involves people essentially performing for each other in their own physical spaces. It's not a purely digital good like ads though. On the other hand, you can buy a Facebook ad in its iOS Ads Manager app that only targets iOS devices, right? All of this is to say Apple has arbitrarily picked winner and loser categories of digital app businesses. Meanwhile it sticks to the line that the store is an even playing field. I'd love it if it were!
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    I think you just solved a conundrum I was having thinking about this very question -- a video class that you watch in an app is in a sense a purely in-app digital good, and Apple appears to have recently been getting super-aggressive about interpreting it that way. But "not a purely digital good" is a great delineation, and one that Apple should probably be making. (I'm not arguing that Apple's 30% cut requirement for even purely digital goods is appropriate; I think Ben Thompson's recent suggestion of a difference between goods with marginal costs vs. zero-marginal costs goods would be a better starting point, if there were a way to express it simply. Of course, a better suggestion might just be for Apple to allow developers to integrate their own in-app purchase systems for goods and services that aren't explicitly tied to the Apple ecosystem and use non-Apple infrastructure for delivery -- not just video classes but Netflix subscriptions, Kindle books, and so on.)
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    Is it really arbitrary, though? The decisions all seem to have reasons, mainly "what is best for Apple's bottom line"
    - bonoboTP 6y ago
      And? It's not illegal for a company to calibrate its business model to improve the bottom line. On the contrary in many cases they are legally forced to. Obviously while respecting other laws.

by spenvo 6y ago

the_reformation 6y ago

A virtual experience happens entirely in the Airbnb app right?

spenvo 6y ago
Eh, I guess? It involves people essentially performing for each other in their own physical spaces. It's not a purely digital good like ads though. On the other hand, you can buy a Facebook ad in its iOS Ads Manager app that only targets iOS devices, right? All of this is to say Apple has arbitrarily picked winner and loser categories of digital app businesses. Meanwhile it sticks to the line that the store is an even playing field. I'd love it if it were!
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  I think you just solved a conundrum I was having thinking about this very question -- a video class that you watch in an app is in a sense a purely in-app digital good, and Apple appears to have recently been getting super-aggressive about interpreting it that way. But "not a purely digital good" is a great delineation, and one that Apple should probably be making. (I'm not arguing that Apple's 30% cut requirement for even purely digital goods is appropriate; I think Ben Thompson's recent suggestion of a difference between goods with marginal costs vs. zero-marginal costs goods would be a better starting point, if there were a way to express it simply. Of course, a better suggestion might just be for Apple to allow developers to integrate their own in-app purchase systems for goods and services that aren't explicitly tied to the Apple ecosystem and use non-Apple infrastructure for delivery -- not just video classes but Netflix subscriptions, Kindle books, and so on.)
- cortesoft 6y ago
  Is it really arbitrary, though? The decisions all seem to have reasons, mainly "what is best for Apple's bottom line"
  - bonoboTP 6y ago
    And? It's not illegal for a company to calibrate its business model to improve the bottom line. On the contrary in many cases they are legally forced to. Obviously while respecting other laws.