10 ms·

The least the EU and US could do is sanction and ban Baidu and other Chinese tech companies responsible for covering up this genocide.

adventured 6y ago
It would have very little effect, which is why it's not a primary threat now. Despite China's aims, their tech giants have made little headway in pushing their core businesses far outside of China. Huawei is the primary success story in that regard (the US has obviously been aggressively targeting them across the board). Baidu was supposed to conquer the world and defeat Google, it failed miserably and is largely just a China search engine today, nearly all of their revenue comes from China, so sanctions wouldn't do much. China's tech giants are, for the most part, captives within China. ByteDance did manage to build a global phenomenon in TikTok, however that too is now under threat of being turned back. Sanctions on most parts of China's system will have little effect, similar to how China's retaliatory sanctions on US Senators are largely meaningless. There are three primary ways to hurt China. 1) Cut them off on technology (eg semiconductors), which is an angle the US is using to an extent. There is some question over how long China will tolerate that before they just start ignoring international rules/laws/norms and start openly steal-cloning the tech they want (I'd bet they won't tolerate it for very long). 2) Humiliate them politically, through isolation & exclusion; cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however. 3) Target their export machine & dollar dependency, cut them off financially from the global economy (USD, Euro and Yen combined entirely dominate the global economy, along with the connected banking & financial systems); this will work for a while, however China is aware of the weak spots and is very aggressively working to build out their domestic service economy to lessen the importance of their exports to their economy, and they're always looking to lessen their dollar dependency. All that said, China is well beyond the point where you can really restrict them in the sense that you can most nations (like Iran or Venezuela). They've accumulated enough capability, tech, wealth, productivity, infrastructure, domestic know-how, etc. that they are fully free standing now. They have $60 trillion or so in domestic wealth. They have the world's #2 military. They have the world's largest manufacturing engine, and can increasingly manufacture at or near the highest tiers (eg jet engines & planes, semiconductors, etc). They have very few real weak points that can threaten them in a serious sense. The last time it was possible to squeeze China was before the great recession, when their economy was still far smaller than the US & EU, and back then it was hoped that wouldn't be necessary.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however. The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China - either as a source of cheap products or, and that is an increasingly successful threat, for money. China has been buying up, building or financing construction works especially in South Europe (Italy, Greece, Croatia, Serbia come to mind), and are involved across Africa.
  - adventured 6y ago
    > The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China No question. On point 2, it wouldn't significantly harm China by any means. The point would be to humiliate their power aspirations, as China has an intense desire to be respected as a global superpower, to be viewed as a peer with great powers, and so on. It's nothing more than an attempt at influencing China, to exclude them from the global order that they obviously want to be part of. Isolation is a modestly potent influence weapon, even more so today than in the past. Russia / USSR for example suffered from an intense desire to be viewed as a power peer, they desperately wanted that recognition from the US (Khrushchev sought that out with his populist visit to the US). Authoritarian systems always seek that with a great degree of desperation (they know their rule by force is illegitimate, so they seek outside sources - typically more democratic sources - to legitimize them).
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > they know their rule by force is illegitimate, so they seek outside sources - typically more democratic sources - to legitimize them China, however, unlike the USSR and Yugoslavia, has the unique advantage of a population so brainwashed that even Chinese students in foreign countries experiencing the benefits of democratic countries are feared for their loyalty to the CCP. Add to that the Great Firewall / their trend of a "Chinternet" aka Walled Garden for their citizens where the CCP controls the narrative and the informations, plus the strategy of allowing local small scale protests against corrupt public officials so that people vent... China doesn't need anyone's validation, they are too big. Unfortunately. The Western countries should have nipped that shit in the bud instead of selling out human rights for cheap crap.
thefounder 6y ago
US could stop putting mexican kids in cages and treat them like garbage. That would be a start towards rehabilitation.
- sagarm 6y ago
  Whataboutism.
  - thefounder 6y ago
    Hypocrisy
- grugagag 6y ago
  Yes they should stop doing that, our country has an unbearable president (Trump) right now but, that doesn’t excuse China from anything and it is also way worse in scale and intensity and done directly against their own citizens who have a different religion. The thing is that here in the US nearly half of the citizens are opposed. In China nobody gives a damn, they don’t know and don’t care. Big difference!!
jandrese 6y ago
In international politics nobody cares too much as long as you are only killing your own people. No country wants to go to war to save some other country's citizens. Hitler could have finished the Holocaust with little more than an international slap on the wrist if he hadn't also invaded France and Russia.
- grugagag 6y ago
  While I get your point business is more important for many countries and going to war for repressed citizens is rare, I think this is a stain that won’t go away and might prove a mistake in the long run. Sure, nobody will go to war with China for this but the Chinese have a huge liability on their hands and might have to pay reparations at some point

adventured 6y ago

It would have very little effect, which is why it's not a primary threat now. Despite China's aims, their tech giants have made little headway in pushing their core businesses far outside of China. Huawei is the primary success story in that regard (the US has obviously been aggressively targeting them across the board). Baidu was supposed to conquer the world and defeat Google, it failed miserably and is largely just a China search engine today, nearly all of their revenue comes from China, so sanctions wouldn't do much. China's tech giants are, for the most part, captives within China. ByteDance did manage to build a global phenomenon in TikTok, however that too is now under threat of being turned back. Sanctions on most parts of China's system will have little effect, similar to how China's retaliatory sanctions on US Senators are largely meaningless. There are three primary ways to hurt China. 1) Cut them off on technology (eg semiconductors), which is an angle the US is using to an extent. There is some question over how long China will tolerate that before they just start ignoring international rules/laws/norms and start openly steal-cloning the tech they want (I'd bet they won't tolerate it for very long). 2) Humiliate them politically, through isolation & exclusion; cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however. 3) Target their export machine & dollar dependency, cut them off financially from the global economy (USD, Euro and Yen combined entirely dominate the global economy, along with the connected banking & financial systems); this will work for a while, however China is aware of the weak spots and is very aggressively working to build out their domestic service economy to lessen the importance of their exports to their economy, and they're always looking to lessen their dollar dependency. All that said, China is well beyond the point where you can really restrict them in the sense that you can most nations (like Iran or Venezuela). They've accumulated enough capability, tech, wealth, productivity, infrastructure, domestic know-how, etc. that they are fully free standing now. They have $60 trillion or so in domestic wealth. They have the world's #2 military. They have the world's largest manufacturing engine, and can increasingly manufacture at or near the highest tiers (eg jet engines & planes, semiconductors, etc). They have very few real weak points that can threaten them in a serious sense. The last time it was possible to squeeze China was before the great recession, when their economy was still far smaller than the US & EU, and back then it was hoped that wouldn't be necessary.

mschuster91 6y ago
> cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however. The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China - either as a source of cheap products or, and that is an increasingly successful threat, for money. China has been buying up, building or financing construction works especially in South Europe (Italy, Greece, Croatia, Serbia come to mind), and are involved across Africa.
- adventured 6y ago
  > The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China No question. On point 2, it wouldn't significantly harm China by any means. The point would be to humiliate their power aspirations, as China has an intense desire to be respected as a global superpower, to be viewed as a peer with great powers, and so on. It's nothing more than an attempt at influencing China, to exclude them from the global order that they obviously want to be part of. Isolation is a modestly potent influence weapon, even more so today than in the past. Russia / USSR for example suffered from an intense desire to be viewed as a power peer, they desperately wanted that recognition from the US (Khrushchev sought that out with his populist visit to the US). Authoritarian systems always seek that with a great degree of desperation (they know their rule by force is illegitimate, so they seek outside sources - typically more democratic sources - to legitimize them).
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > they know their rule by force is illegitimate, so they seek outside sources - typically more democratic sources - to legitimize them China, however, unlike the USSR and Yugoslavia, has the unique advantage of a population so brainwashed that even Chinese students in foreign countries experiencing the benefits of democratic countries are feared for their loyalty to the CCP. Add to that the Great Firewall / their trend of a "Chinternet" aka Walled Garden for their citizens where the CCP controls the narrative and the informations, plus the strategy of allowing local small scale protests against corrupt public officials so that people vent... China doesn't need anyone's validation, they are too big. Unfortunately. The Western countries should have nipped that shit in the bud instead of selling out human rights for cheap crap.

thefounder 6y ago

US could stop putting mexican kids in cages and treat them like garbage. That would be a start towards rehabilitation.

sagarm 6y ago
Whataboutism.
- thefounder 6y ago
  Hypocrisy
grugagag 6y ago
Yes they should stop doing that, our country has an unbearable president (Trump) right now but, that doesn’t excuse China from anything and it is also way worse in scale and intensity and done directly against their own citizens who have a different religion. The thing is that here in the US nearly half of the citizens are opposed. In China nobody gives a damn, they don’t know and don’t care. Big difference!!

jandrese 6y ago

In international politics nobody cares too much as long as you are only killing your own people. No country wants to go to war to save some other country's citizens. Hitler could have finished the Holocaust with little more than an international slap on the wrist if he hadn't also invaded France and Russia.

grugagag 6y ago
While I get your point business is more important for many countries and going to war for repressed citizens is rare, I think this is a stain that won’t go away and might prove a mistake in the long run. Sure, nobody will go to war with China for this but the Chinese have a huge liability on their hands and might have to pay reparations at some point