5 ms·

Just from an efficiency POV alone, EVs are better. With ICE you're wasting >50% of the energy to heat, whereas with EVs, that's closer to 10-20%.

Judgmentality 6y ago
I believe GP is asking about manufacturing and production, not operation.
michaelmior 6y ago
Right, but I'm saying I've heard some claim that the environmental impact of efficiency gains are largely offset by the waste produced in the production and disposal of EVs and batteries. I haven't seen a great analysis supporting or refuting this claim. However, I also think that if true, perhaps this is part of the "growing pains" of the EV market. Certainly as the scale of the market grows, we can expect more efficient manufacturing processes and longer lasting technology.
SigmundA 6y ago
Not exactly comparable, if the electricity comes from burning fuel then those losses are at the power plant + transmission losses + losses in the car and drivetrain. power plants are generally more efficient than small combustion engines but all other things in chain must apply. Mix in nuclear and solar and things change of course. However comparing the efficiency of the controller / motor to engine / transmission is apple to oranges, the battery / controller / motor in a EV is just the last part of a long transmission stretching from the engine in the power plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe
- imtringued 6y ago
  EV owners can just get a green electricity plan.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Yes it's difficult to compare. Many people like to take into account the efficiency of the electricity production when talking about EV, which is an important thing to do, but forget that gaz does not appear magically in a gaz tank. The efficiency of having gaz in a gaz tank is shit. I don't have the numbers because I'm lazy, but I remember reading that it takes more energy to bring one liter of gaz in a car tank, if you consider the full chain, than the energy required to drive a EV on the same distance. So even before you start to turn on the cars, an EV has used less energy.

Judgmentality 6y ago

I believe GP is asking about manufacturing and production, not operation.

michaelmior 6y ago

Right, but I'm saying I've heard some claim that the environmental impact of efficiency gains are largely offset by the waste produced in the production and disposal of EVs and batteries. I haven't seen a great analysis supporting or refuting this claim. However, I also think that if true, perhaps this is part of the "growing pains" of the EV market. Certainly as the scale of the market grows, we can expect more efficient manufacturing processes and longer lasting technology.

SigmundA 6y ago

Not exactly comparable, if the electricity comes from burning fuel then those losses are at the power plant + transmission losses + losses in the car and drivetrain. power plants are generally more efficient than small combustion engines but all other things in chain must apply. Mix in nuclear and solar and things change of course. However comparing the efficiency of the controller / motor to engine / transmission is apple to oranges, the battery / controller / motor in a EV is just the last part of a long transmission stretching from the engine in the power plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe

imtringued 6y ago
EV owners can just get a green electricity plan.
speedgoose 6y ago
Yes it's difficult to compare. Many people like to take into account the efficiency of the electricity production when talking about EV, which is an important thing to do, but forget that gaz does not appear magically in a gaz tank. The efficiency of having gaz in a gaz tank is shit. I don't have the numbers because I'm lazy, but I remember reading that it takes more energy to bring one liter of gaz in a car tank, if you consider the full chain, than the energy required to drive a EV on the same distance. So even before you start to turn on the cars, an EV has used less energy.