5 ms·

I wish we had a standardized test for range at continuous 70/80/90 mph instead of the EPA and WLTP tests. Those are designed for overall efficiency testing when

I wish we had a standardized test for range at continuous 70/80/90 mph instead of the EPA and WLTP tests. Those are designed for overall efficiency testing when what people really want to know about EV range is how long they can go on road trips. For everything else charging at home every night makes pretty much any EV range enough for the commute and the efficiency is always great compared to gas.

epanchin 6y ago
Continuous 70mph under what conditions? On a flat with no wind isn’t very representative of real road tripping.
- natch 6y ago
  Agree. It’s an ok way to convey an intuitive feel for the distance, but as the expression goes ymmv. In real road tripping, what matters is having a fantastic charger network with redundancy on major routes and good coverage on minor routes.
- pedrocr 6y ago
  Hence the need for a test cycle with a standard set of hills/wind/cold to get you a good estimate of what range to count on from adverse to optimal conditions.
mcot2 6y ago
To go even further I think you want to have tests or simulations with specific air resistance as the drag is actually what causes range loss at higher speeds more than anything else. As an example driving 45mph into a strong headwind is also going to be bad for efficiency. I’d actually like to see some tests/simulations that isolate speed (different speeds in a vaccum) and air resistance (constant speed but different air resistance).
londons_explore 6y ago
> efficiency is always great compared to gas This isn't a given. Money-efficiency in the UK at least is only good if you charge at home. If you pay on-street prices for electricity, you can easily spending more per mile than a gas car. Eg. An electric car might do 330 Wh/mile. A recharge on the road would cost £3 (connection fee) + £0.30 per kWh. That means if you top up 25 kWh, you'll end up paying £10.50, and able to travel 76 miles, or £0.138 per mile. A typical 2018 gas car gets 50.8 imperial mpg costing £0.108 per mile at todays gas prices in London. Overall, unless you can charge at home, an electric car will cost you more per mile for fuel/electricity alone.
- imtringued 6y ago
  For reference. There are free public chargers nearby me that don't charge money at all. Your mileage may vary.
- pedrocr 6y ago
  The efficiency is still great in your example. You're just paying outrageous prices for electricity. That's not an efficiency problem, it's a price problem. EPA/WLTP also doesn't help you measure if your electricity prices are reasonable or not compared to your gas prices.
  - mijamo 6y ago
    Ionity is even more expensive than that in most of Europe.
- minhazm 6y ago
  Depends on the car. Model 3 is rated for around 250 Wh/mile in the US. For the UK on the WLTP cycle it's rated for a range of 348 miles, and is actually better than 245 Wh/mile, but I don't think WLTP is realistic so let's use the US numbers. Tesla charges around £0.24 per kWh in the UK, and there is no connection fee. In that case for 25 kWh you'd be paying £6, which would get you 100 miles of range. Or £6 / 100 = £0.06 per mile. £0.06 per mile vs £0.108 per mile. That's way cheaper for the Tesla. Some of the other fast charging networks are indeed more expensive than Tesla, but they are also getting cheaper. Plus if you charge at the L2 chargers, like a lot of people generally do for charging at work, it's even cheaper.
  - reitzensteinm 6y ago
    How are fuel taxes there and do EVs have an equivalent tax? Ideally we'd just move to a carbon tax, to punish EVs a little bit and ICEs a ton, but I suspect that governments are going to aggressively pursue taxing EV miles in the near future once penetration hits double digits.
    - 6y ago

epanchin 6y ago

Continuous 70mph under what conditions? On a flat with no wind isn’t very representative of real road tripping.

natch 6y ago
Agree. It’s an ok way to convey an intuitive feel for the distance, but as the expression goes ymmv. In real road tripping, what matters is having a fantastic charger network with redundancy on major routes and good coverage on minor routes.
pedrocr 6y ago
Hence the need for a test cycle with a standard set of hills/wind/cold to get you a good estimate of what range to count on from adverse to optimal conditions.

mcot2 6y ago

To go even further I think you want to have tests or simulations with specific air resistance as the drag is actually what causes range loss at higher speeds more than anything else. As an example driving 45mph into a strong headwind is also going to be bad for efficiency. I’d actually like to see some tests/simulations that isolate speed (different speeds in a vaccum) and air resistance (constant speed but different air resistance).

londons_explore 6y ago

> efficiency is always great compared to gas This isn't a given. Money-efficiency in the UK at least is only good if you charge at home. If you pay on-street prices for electricity, you can easily spending more per mile than a gas car. Eg. An electric car might do 330 Wh/mile. A recharge on the road would cost £3 (connection fee) + £0.30 per kWh. That means if you top up 25 kWh, you'll end up paying £10.50, and able to travel 76 miles, or £0.138 per mile. A typical 2018 gas car gets 50.8 imperial mpg costing £0.108 per mile at todays gas prices in London. Overall, unless you can charge at home, an electric car will cost you more per mile for fuel/electricity alone.

imtringued 6y ago
For reference. There are free public chargers nearby me that don't charge money at all. Your mileage may vary.
pedrocr 6y ago
The efficiency is still great in your example. You're just paying outrageous prices for electricity. That's not an efficiency problem, it's a price problem. EPA/WLTP also doesn't help you measure if your electricity prices are reasonable or not compared to your gas prices.
- mijamo 6y ago
  Ionity is even more expensive than that in most of Europe.
minhazm 6y ago
Depends on the car. Model 3 is rated for around 250 Wh/mile in the US. For the UK on the WLTP cycle it's rated for a range of 348 miles, and is actually better than 245 Wh/mile, but I don't think WLTP is realistic so let's use the US numbers. Tesla charges around £0.24 per kWh in the UK, and there is no connection fee. In that case for 25 kWh you'd be paying £6, which would get you 100 miles of range. Or £6 / 100 = £0.06 per mile. £0.06 per mile vs £0.108 per mile. That's way cheaper for the Tesla. Some of the other fast charging networks are indeed more expensive than Tesla, but they are also getting cheaper. Plus if you charge at the L2 chargers, like a lot of people generally do for charging at work, it's even cheaper.
- reitzensteinm 6y ago
  How are fuel taxes there and do EVs have an equivalent tax? Ideally we'd just move to a carbon tax, to punish EVs a little bit and ICEs a ton, but I suspect that governments are going to aggressively pursue taxing EV miles in the near future once penetration hits double digits.
  - 6y ago