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As someone who was personally targeted by violent police for kneeling and holding my hands up, let me assure you that they are correct. Have you gone to any pr

As someone who was personally targeted by violent police for kneeling and holding my hands up, let me assure you that they are correct. Have you gone to any protests where the police used chemical weapons?

arkis22 6y ago
Were you personally targeted? As in there was a line of people that they walked past to personally give you a dose of chemical weapons? Gas is a chemical weapon. Pepper spray is a chemical weapon. Please don't compare Assad's use of chemical weapons to tear gas.
- shirakawasuna 6y ago
  I mean I was targeted. By personally I meant that I had that personal experience. It was as part of a group - the cops tend to use "collective punishment" when it comes to protests, after all. The use of tear gas is the use of a chemical weapon and a war crime, but when you turn it against civilians in your own country we give it a pass.
  - arkis22 6y ago
    So you weren't personally targeted. In what way were you targeted? Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries?
    - shirakawasuna 6y ago
      > So you weren't personally targeted. I think I've clarified what I meant. I was targeted. I can't specify the exact degree to which anyone was skipped over to get to me. > In what way were you targeted? First time, it was indiscriminate use of teargas. Second time, indiscriminate use of teargas and a flashbang shot at my feet. > Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I was standing in a protest. > I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries? It would be a war crime if it were a foreign military force using it against the exact same crowd, but not if it's cops. War crimes have a way of being selectively (un)enforced when it comes to those in power, in any case. Police are fairly atrocious in most countries, so I don't think there's much point in trying to figure out exactly where I'd rank the police in the US. It wouldn't make it right if it were average or not.
      - arkis22 6y ago
        You've done it poorly. You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. And you've given two examples of them shooting indiscriminately. So no, they didn't personally target you.
        shirakawasuna 6y ago
        > You've done it poorly. The other commenter seemed to understand well enough. Maybe instead of playing a blame game you could accept my clarification and move on? > You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. And I never claimed to. > And you've given two examples of them shooting indiscriminately. So no, they didn't personally target you. The second example was closer to me than anyone else and I was at the rear of the crowd. I don't know how productive it is for me to keep telling you what I mean by saying I was personally targeted. But okay, I'll try again with the same substitution: I had a first-hand experience being targeted by police with chemical and explosive weapons.
        arkis22 6y ago
        I'm really still missing your clarification... I'm not really sure what game blame you think I'm playing? > You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. > And I never claimed to. AND YET 2 SENTENCES LATER...... >I don't know how productive it is for me to keep telling you what I mean by saying I was personally targeted. But okay, I'll try again with the same substitution: I had a first-hand experience being targeted by police with chemical and explosive weapons.
        shirakawasuna 6y ago
        > I'm really still missing your clarification... I'm not really sure what game blame you think I'm playing? "You've done it poorly". > AND YET 2 SENTENCES LATER...... Please do me the courtesy of explaining your position rather than throwing around quotes and assuming it's clear.
    - nfw2 6y ago
      You are misunderstanding what they meant by "personally." They don't mean they were singled out. They mean it was a first-hand experience. As in "I thanked him personally for the gift." This is the primary definition of personally
      - deleted 6y ago
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      - deleted 6y ago
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      - arkis22 6y ago
        your own definition relies on a 1 to 1 communication between people. so you're wrong right? I don't personally thank Rotary International for all their hard work. "I personally cursed the cop for pepper spraying me" Just that one cop huh? They're literally saying all the cops targeted them.
        shirakawasuna 6y ago
        Previous commenter is correct. I'm just saying I had first hand experience being targeted.
        arkis22 6y ago
        Except really we've established you weren't personally targeted and were just a random person in a protesting mob...
        pwinnski 6y ago
        How is that better? In what world is police officers dosing large groups of protestors acceptable? Give it enough years, and people will talk about the brave protestors of 2020. But like all "brave protests" of the past, today they should be supported, and are not.
        deleted 6y ago
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too.
- shirakawasuna 6y ago
  > The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. If it were a foreign military doing the exact same action to the exact same people, it would be a war crime. There are serious impacts from using tear gas, including poorly-understood hormonal impacts to women, particularly pregnant women. > Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. I haven't manufactured anything, these are things that have been happening for three months via aggressive, proactive police action. You can go see it for yourself by attending a protest at a major city. Or you can review the countless videos. Or you can listen to people (like me) who were there. > We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too. No we can't. Water cannons are also unacceptable in these situations, however. People like to act like these weapons are relatively harmless, but people have been disabled, nearly killed, or straight-up killed with them.

arkis22 6y ago

Were you personally targeted? As in there was a line of people that they walked past to personally give you a dose of chemical weapons? Gas is a chemical weapon. Pepper spray is a chemical weapon. Please don't compare Assad's use of chemical weapons to tear gas.

shirakawasuna 6y ago
I mean I was targeted. By personally I meant that I had that personal experience. It was as part of a group - the cops tend to use "collective punishment" when it comes to protests, after all. The use of tear gas is the use of a chemical weapon and a war crime, but when you turn it against civilians in your own country we give it a pass.
- arkis22 6y ago
  So you weren't personally targeted. In what way were you targeted? Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries?
  - shirakawasuna 6y ago
    > So you weren't personally targeted. I think I've clarified what I meant. I was targeted. I can't specify the exact degree to which anyone was skipped over to get to me. > In what way were you targeted? First time, it was indiscriminate use of teargas. Second time, indiscriminate use of teargas and a flashbang shot at my feet. > Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I was standing in a protest. > I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries? It would be a war crime if it were a foreign military force using it against the exact same crowd, but not if it's cops. War crimes have a way of being selectively (un)enforced when it comes to those in power, in any case. Police are fairly atrocious in most countries, so I don't think there's much point in trying to figure out exactly where I'd rank the police in the US. It wouldn't make it right if it were average or not.
    - arkis22 6y ago
      You've done it poorly. You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. And you've given two examples of them shooting indiscriminately. So no, they didn't personally target you.
      - shirakawasuna 6y ago
        > You've done it poorly. The other commenter seemed to understand well enough. Maybe instead of playing a blame game you could accept my clarification and move on? > You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. And I never claimed to. > And you've given two examples of them shooting indiscriminately. So no, they didn't personally target you. The second example was closer to me than anyone else and I was at the rear of the crowd. I don't know how productive it is for me to keep telling you what I mean by saying I was personally targeted. But okay, I'll try again with the same substitution: I had a first-hand experience being targeted by police with chemical and explosive weapons.
        arkis22 6y ago
        I'm really still missing your clarification... I'm not really sure what game blame you think I'm playing? > You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. > And I never claimed to. AND YET 2 SENTENCES LATER...... >I don't know how productive it is for me to keep telling you what I mean by saying I was personally targeted. But okay, I'll try again with the same substitution: I had a first-hand experience being targeted by police with chemical and explosive weapons.
        shirakawasuna 6y ago
        > I'm really still missing your clarification... I'm not really sure what game blame you think I'm playing? "You've done it poorly". > AND YET 2 SENTENCES LATER...... Please do me the courtesy of explaining your position rather than throwing around quotes and assuming it's clear.
  - nfw2 6y ago
    You are misunderstanding what they meant by "personally." They don't mean they were singled out. They mean it was a first-hand experience. As in "I thanked him personally for the gift." This is the primary definition of personally
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - arkis22 6y ago
      your own definition relies on a 1 to 1 communication between people. so you're wrong right? I don't personally thank Rotary International for all their hard work. "I personally cursed the cop for pepper spraying me" Just that one cop huh? They're literally saying all the cops targeted them.
      - shirakawasuna 6y ago
        Previous commenter is correct. I'm just saying I had first hand experience being targeted.
        arkis22 6y ago
        Except really we've established you weren't personally targeted and were just a random person in a protesting mob...
        pwinnski 6y ago
        How is that better? In what world is police officers dosing large groups of protestors acceptable? Give it enough years, and people will talk about the brave protestors of 2020. But like all "brave protests" of the past, today they should be supported, and are not.
        deleted 6y ago

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too.

shirakawasuna 6y ago
> The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. If it were a foreign military doing the exact same action to the exact same people, it would be a war crime. There are serious impacts from using tear gas, including poorly-understood hormonal impacts to women, particularly pregnant women. > Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. I haven't manufactured anything, these are things that have been happening for three months via aggressive, proactive police action. You can go see it for yourself by attending a protest at a major city. Or you can review the countless videos. Or you can listen to people (like me) who were there. > We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too. No we can't. Water cannons are also unacceptable in these situations, however. People like to act like these weapons are relatively harmless, but people have been disabled, nearly killed, or straight-up killed with them.