4 ms·

> A non trivial number of the protesters are advocating for complete elimination of the police though. That's certainly what the conservative news outlets are

> A non trivial number of the protesters are advocating for complete elimination of the police though. That's certainly what the conservative news outlets are reporting, but is it actually true?

war1025 6y ago
> but is it actually true? Perception is all that matters, and a large chunk of the country follows conservative media. Unfortunately the country is doing a great job of lining up behind their preferred propaganda outlets rather than looking for truth. This is true for both Liberals and Conservatives. We hear what we want to hear.
- bawolff 6y ago
  You were the one who brought it up to support your argument. Your argument doesn't seem to rest on what the public preception is but in what is actually happening. So yes i would say the veracity of the statement is relavent here.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ggurface123 6y ago
Here's an article from the New York Times stating that defund actually means abolish. Do you consider them a conservative news outlet? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...
- shirakawasuna 6y ago
  I would consider them a vehicle of capital that tends to do a terrible job covering these things. Conservative-adjascent.
dbrueck 6y ago
Judge for yourself: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-i-became-police-abolitionist/613540/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-i-beca... https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minneapolis-city-council-announces-plan-to-dismantle-police-department/89-a2260d74-4e21-4069-9b06-735aafba95cd https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minne...
- tfehring 6y ago
  The point of disbanding the Minneapolis Police Department (your 3rd link) is to work around police protections like minimum force size and union protections that are codified in the city's charter. The plan is to remove and replace, not just remove [0]. As for the other two - two is not a "non trivial number" regardless of who gives them a platform. This YouGov poll [1] shows 11% support (and ~20% support among blacks and hispanics) for abolishing the police as of June, which is a non trivial number. But framing it as a yes/no question loses a lot of granularity - I bet most of those people would advocate replacing the current police force with something that materially resembles a (more community-based, less militarized) police force. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/26/884149659/minneapolis-council-moves-to-defund-police-establish-holistic-public-safety-forc https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racia... [1] https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vgqowgynze/econTabReport.pdf https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vgqowgynze/econTabReport.pdf
  - dbrueck 6y ago
    Sure, I don't disagree. The implication though was that this was a story mainly/entirely coming out of so-called conservative media, so I posted a small sampling of links from other places.
    - tfehring 6y ago
      Makes sense, thanks for clarifying.

> A non trivial number of the protesters are advocating for complete elimination of the police though. That's certainly what the conservative news outlets are reporting, but is it actually true?

war1025 6y ago

> but is it actually true? Perception is all that matters, and a large chunk of the country follows conservative media. Unfortunately the country is doing a great job of lining up behind their preferred propaganda outlets rather than looking for truth. This is true for both Liberals and Conservatives. We hear what we want to hear.

bawolff 6y ago
You were the one who brought it up to support your argument. Your argument doesn't seem to rest on what the public preception is but in what is actually happening. So yes i would say the veracity of the statement is relavent here.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ggurface123 6y ago

Here's an article from the New York Times stating that defund actually means abolish. Do you consider them a conservative news outlet? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...

shirakawasuna 6y ago
I would consider them a vehicle of capital that tends to do a terrible job covering these things. Conservative-adjascent.

dbrueck 6y ago

Judge for yourself: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-i-became-police-abolitionist/613540/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-i-beca... https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minneapolis-city-council-announces-plan-to-dismantle-police-department/89-a2260d74-4e21-4069-9b06-735aafba95cd https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minne...

tfehring 6y ago
The point of disbanding the Minneapolis Police Department (your 3rd link) is to work around police protections like minimum force size and union protections that are codified in the city's charter. The plan is to remove and replace, not just remove [0]. As for the other two - two is not a "non trivial number" regardless of who gives them a platform. This YouGov poll [1] shows 11% support (and ~20% support among blacks and hispanics) for abolishing the police as of June, which is a non trivial number. But framing it as a yes/no question loses a lot of granularity - I bet most of those people would advocate replacing the current police force with something that materially resembles a (more community-based, less militarized) police force. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/26/884149659/minneapolis-council-moves-to-defund-police-establish-holistic-public-safety-forc https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racia... [1] https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vgqowgynze/econTabReport.pdf https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vgqowgynze/econTabReport.pdf
- dbrueck 6y ago
  Sure, I don't disagree. The implication though was that this was a story mainly/entirely coming out of so-called conservative media, so I posted a small sampling of links from other places.
  - tfehring 6y ago
    Makes sense, thanks for clarifying.