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The net effect of people hearing "Black Lives Matter protesters clashed with police again last night" on the news for an entire summer is going to be a giant st

The net effect of people hearing "Black Lives Matter protesters clashed with police again last night" on the news for an entire summer is going to be a giant step backwards for whatever BLM is actually trying to achieve. That is true whether or not the riots have actually been geographically widespread.

strathmeyer 6y ago
I'm an American and have only seen the police rioting. Defunding the police is the most reasonable option I have heard in my lifetime. Seems like the perfect solution, there is nothing bad to say about it, it's opponents are left to make up "widespread rioting".
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  Would you mind elaborating? Are you not aware of the rioting, looting, and arson that has stricken many cities across America?
- arkis22 6y ago
  > I'm an American and have only seen the police rioting I'm an American. I can't believe you can say that with a straight face. As soon as you say that ONLY the police are doing something wrong means you have an understanding of the situation that no facts will fix.
  - shirakawasuna 6y ago
    As someone who was personally targeted by violent police for kneeling and holding my hands up, let me assure you that they are correct. Have you gone to any protests where the police used chemical weapons?
    - arkis22 6y ago
      Were you personally targeted? As in there was a line of people that they walked past to personally give you a dose of chemical weapons? Gas is a chemical weapon. Pepper spray is a chemical weapon. Please don't compare Assad's use of chemical weapons to tear gas.
      - shirakawasuna 6y ago
        I mean I was targeted. By personally I meant that I had that personal experience. It was as part of a group - the cops tend to use "collective punishment" when it comes to protests, after all. The use of tear gas is the use of a chemical weapon and a war crime, but when you turn it against civilians in your own country we give it a pass.
        arkis22 6y ago
        So you weren't personally targeted. In what way were you targeted? Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries?
        shirakawasuna 6y ago
        > So you weren't personally targeted. I think I've clarified what I meant. I was targeted. I can't specify the exact degree to which anyone was skipped over to get to me. > In what way were you targeted? First time, it was indiscriminate use of teargas. Second time, indiscriminate use of teargas and a flashbang shot at my feet. > Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I was standing in a protest. > I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries? It would be a war crime if it were a foreign military force using it against the exact same crowd, but not if it's cops. War crimes have a way of being selectively (un)enforced when it comes to those in power, in any case. Police are fairly atrocious in most countries, so I don't think there's much point in trying to figure out exactly where I'd rank the police in the US. It wouldn't make it right if it were average or not.
        arkis22 6y ago
        You've done it poorly. You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. And you've given two examples of them shooting indiscriminately. So no, they didn't personally target you.
    - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
      The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too.
      - shirakawasuna 6y ago
        > The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. If it were a foreign military doing the exact same action to the exact same people, it would be a war crime. There are serious impacts from using tear gas, including poorly-understood hormonal impacts to women, particularly pregnant women. > Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. I haven't manufactured anything, these are things that have been happening for three months via aggressive, proactive police action. You can go see it for yourself by attending a protest at a major city. Or you can review the countless videos. Or you can listen to people (like me) who were there. > We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too. No we can't. Water cannons are also unacceptable in these situations, however. People like to act like these weapons are relatively harmless, but people have been disabled, nearly killed, or straight-up killed with them.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  Over 30 people have been killed by the rioters not the police during these violent riots,
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Police kill 1000 people in USA every year.
    - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
      That’s not a useful or relevant statistic and you know it.
      - NotQuantum 6y ago
        Perhaps the statistic that 40% of cops are domestic abusers is relevant to you. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-...
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        Rioters committing murder is not related to cops committing domestic abuse.
        lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        It’s not, because it was debunked ages ago.
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        I'm just trying to put GP's dubious numbers in their proper context. Of those 1000, how many would you estimate are killed without reasonable cause? Could it be 30? 300? 970? We shouldn't turn off our brains just because somebody said someone died. USA society is fine with the carnage on the highway and throughout the Middle East; I think we can deal with a tiny amount of carnage in order to improve.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  This is hilariously dishonest. How can you expect to be taken seriously?
shirakawasuna 6y ago
That usually means that the police used fairly extreme violence and chemical weapons on protesters and received maybe a handful of water bottles thrown at them after doing so. Your news sources have an agenda and tend to get these things wrong. Go to a protest and see for yourself if you want to viscerally watch them lie in real time.
- zo1 6y ago
  > "Your news sources have an agenda and tend to get these things wrong." So do yours, let's not pretend otherwise.
  - shirakawasuna 6y ago
    My sources are video and personal direct knowledge.
    - zo1 6y ago
      The sources for the other side also include video and personal direct knowledge.
      - shirakawasuna 6y ago
        No they don't.
pwinnski 6y ago
Polling does not support your view. Support for BLM has risen more during this summer than in the previous several years combined. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/10/upshot/black-lives-matter-attitudes.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/10/upshot/black-...
- war1025 6y ago
  They got a huge initial boost. It's dragged on to the point that I fully expect support to start dropping precipitously. Especially as the protests have become continuously more destructive riots.
  - pwinnski 6y ago
    > the protests have become continuously more destructive riots This just doesn't seem to be happening as you believe it does. Campaign advertising is not news.
    - war1025 6y ago
      > Campaign advertising is not news. No, but Twitter live streams aren't campaign advertising. The protests are demonstrably violent and destructive.

strathmeyer 6y ago

I'm an American and have only seen the police rioting. Defunding the police is the most reasonable option I have heard in my lifetime. Seems like the perfect solution, there is nothing bad to say about it, it's opponents are left to make up "widespread rioting".

Rebelgecko 6y ago
Would you mind elaborating? Are you not aware of the rioting, looting, and arson that has stricken many cities across America?
arkis22 6y ago
> I'm an American and have only seen the police rioting I'm an American. I can't believe you can say that with a straight face. As soon as you say that ONLY the police are doing something wrong means you have an understanding of the situation that no facts will fix.
- shirakawasuna 6y ago
  As someone who was personally targeted by violent police for kneeling and holding my hands up, let me assure you that they are correct. Have you gone to any protests where the police used chemical weapons?
  - arkis22 6y ago
    Were you personally targeted? As in there was a line of people that they walked past to personally give you a dose of chemical weapons? Gas is a chemical weapon. Pepper spray is a chemical weapon. Please don't compare Assad's use of chemical weapons to tear gas.
    - shirakawasuna 6y ago
      I mean I was targeted. By personally I meant that I had that personal experience. It was as part of a group - the cops tend to use "collective punishment" when it comes to protests, after all. The use of tear gas is the use of a chemical weapon and a war crime, but when you turn it against civilians in your own country we give it a pass.
      - arkis22 6y ago
        So you weren't personally targeted. In what way were you targeted? Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries?
        shirakawasuna 6y ago
        > So you weren't personally targeted. I think I've clarified what I meant. I was targeted. I can't specify the exact degree to which anyone was skipped over to get to me. > In what way were you targeted? First time, it was indiscriminate use of teargas. Second time, indiscriminate use of teargas and a flashbang shot at my feet. > Were you doing nothing to arouse police attention? I was standing in a protest. > I think most first world countries have a gas they can use for riot control. Are you insisting that most first world countries are regularly engaging in what you would call war crimes... that are worse than other countries? It would be a war crime if it were a foreign military force using it against the exact same crowd, but not if it's cops. War crimes have a way of being selectively (un)enforced when it comes to those in power, in any case. Police are fairly atrocious in most countries, so I don't think there's much point in trying to figure out exactly where I'd rank the police in the US. It wouldn't make it right if it were average or not.
        arkis22 6y ago
        You've done it poorly. You can't specify the degree to which you think you were personally selected. And you've given two examples of them shooting indiscriminately. So no, they didn't personally target you.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too.
    - shirakawasuna 6y ago
      > The scare words really kill your credibility. It’s tear gas and pepper spray, not mustard gas. If it were a foreign military doing the exact same action to the exact same people, it would be a war crime. There are serious impacts from using tear gas, including poorly-understood hormonal impacts to women, particularly pregnant women. > Stop trying to manufacture an oppressed victim narrative. I haven't manufactured anything, these are things that have been happening for three months via aggressive, proactive police action. You can go see it for yourself by attending a protest at a major city. Or you can review the countless videos. Or you can listen to people (like me) who were there. > We can call a water cannon a chemical weapon too. No we can't. Water cannons are also unacceptable in these situations, however. People like to act like these weapons are relatively harmless, but people have been disabled, nearly killed, or straight-up killed with them.
_-david-_ 6y ago
Over 30 people have been killed by the rioters not the police during these violent riots,
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Police kill 1000 people in USA every year.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    That’s not a useful or relevant statistic and you know it.
    - NotQuantum 6y ago
      Perhaps the statistic that 40% of cops are domestic abusers is relevant to you. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-...
      - _-david-_ 6y ago
        Rioters committing murder is not related to cops committing domestic abuse.
      - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        It’s not, because it was debunked ages ago.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      I'm just trying to put GP's dubious numbers in their proper context. Of those 1000, how many would you estimate are killed without reasonable cause? Could it be 30? 300? 970? We shouldn't turn off our brains just because somebody said someone died. USA society is fine with the carnage on the highway and throughout the Middle East; I think we can deal with a tiny amount of carnage in order to improve.
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
This is hilariously dishonest. How can you expect to be taken seriously?

shirakawasuna 6y ago

That usually means that the police used fairly extreme violence and chemical weapons on protesters and received maybe a handful of water bottles thrown at them after doing so. Your news sources have an agenda and tend to get these things wrong. Go to a protest and see for yourself if you want to viscerally watch them lie in real time.

zo1 6y ago
> "Your news sources have an agenda and tend to get these things wrong." So do yours, let's not pretend otherwise.
- shirakawasuna 6y ago
  My sources are video and personal direct knowledge.
  - zo1 6y ago
    The sources for the other side also include video and personal direct knowledge.
    - shirakawasuna 6y ago
      No they don't.

pwinnski 6y ago

Polling does not support your view. Support for BLM has risen more during this summer than in the previous several years combined. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/10/upshot/black-lives-matter-attitudes.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/10/upshot/black-...

war1025 6y ago
They got a huge initial boost. It's dragged on to the point that I fully expect support to start dropping precipitously. Especially as the protests have become continuously more destructive riots.
- pwinnski 6y ago
  > the protests have become continuously more destructive riots This just doesn't seem to be happening as you believe it does. Campaign advertising is not news.
  - war1025 6y ago
    > Campaign advertising is not news. No, but Twitter live streams aren't campaign advertising. The protests are demonstrably violent and destructive.