7 ms·

Why is the USPS doing so badly when e commerce is doing so well? Even if the post office goes away, Amazon will still keep doing well. In Japan they use 7/11 t

Why is the USPS doing so badly when e commerce is doing so well? Even if the post office goes away, Amazon will still keep doing well. In Japan they use 7/11 to do deliveries to people and pay bills there like a post office. Maybe we can learn from them and use Amazon for that.

milesdyson_phd 6y ago
Same in Taiwan, you can basically do everything at 7/11.
nickthegreek 6y ago
Im guessing Amazon isn't delivering 2/3 of its rural deliveries.
- kube-system 6y ago
  I'd guess Amazon delivers 0/3 of their rural deliveries. I've never seen a last-mile Amazon vehicle outside of a major metro.
  - nybble41 6y ago
    Amazon does rural deliveries. My parents live in a rural area, over three miles from the nearest town (pop. 1,563), and yet regularly receive parcels from Amazon-branded delivery vehicles. They're not limited to major metros.
  - jpindar 6y ago
    They deliver in small towns outside of what I would call a major metro area. Probably not in actual rural areas though.
throwawaygh 6y ago
2/3rds of amazon deliveries are almost certainly in a few dozen cities/metros. USPS absorbed not just their own costs for the long tail, but also everyone else’s.
Fronzie 6y ago
| Why is the USPS doing so badly when e commerce is doing so well? Because it's actively being sabotaged. It's staffing is held back by pension requirements which other parts of government and Amazon do not have. Their perfectly fine working sorting are removed.
- Alupis 6y ago
  > Because it's actively being sabotaged. I know this is the political line of the day, but the reality is USPS is, has been, and will be insanely inefficient for decades. Decades. That spans multiple presidents from both parties. Decades. The very fact that USPS receives funding by Tax Payers, but also still charges the same tax payers money to use services, and still manages to lose billions of dollars every year is a modern marvel all in it's own right. The very fact it costs USPS more than $0.55 to deliver a letter to your mailbox (which only USPS is legally allowed to put mail into for whatever reason in 2020), is insane. Raise rates they'll say! To what end? To the point where UPS or FedEX rates start looking attractive for normal letter mail? What will happen then to the USPS? For larger packages over a few pounds, it's already insanely cheaper to ship packages via UPS or FedEx. Sometimes over half the price in difference. Neither UPS nor FedEx are subsidized by Tax Payers + Still Charge for Services. Somehow, they make a profit and deliver packages on time. The mismanagement of USPS is as criminal as it is resolute. It is not the current administration's doing - claiming so is not just intellectually dishonest, it's flatly wrong. No, the mismanagement of USPS has always been, and all signs seem to say it will always be. EDIT: It's a myth that USPS isn't tax payer funded. Pay attention to the wording they use - "Not Tax Payer Funded". That says nothing about routine bailouts[1][2][3], which are so routine they might as well be scheduled. How is a bailout not tax payer funding? Run yourself into the ground then get bailed out by tax payers again, and again, and again, and again. It would probably be more efficient to actually just give them the money up front. [1] https://justthenews.com/government/congress/congressman-says-usps-25-billion-bailout-bill-favors-democratic-party-backed https://justthenews.com/government/congress/congressman-says... [2] https://keller.house.gov/media/in-the-news/usps-has-lost-78-billion-2007-despite-receiving-billions-taxpayers-every-year https://keller.house.gov/media/in-the-news/usps-has-lost-78-... [3] https://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/ https://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/
zonethundery 6y ago
Because volumes in its most profitable mail categories (marketing mail, first class mail) have fallen off a cliff. It would take an impossible number of parcels (at thinner margins) to make up for that. 6-day service, rural delivery, profitability; pick two.
- labster 6y ago
  They were pretty heavily optimized for 1990, with high speed sorting machines for letters. I expect we actually can decommission some of the sorting machines, but since Postmaster deJoy decided to be openly political on ballot delays it will be impossible to tell for a while.
opportune 6y ago
Not only do they have to prefund their pensions very aggressively, but people dump shipments across unprofitable routes on the USPS because they have more uniform pricing
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Even after pension funding, they lost $3.5 billion last year on operations. They've always been extremely inefficient. Between 1960-1995, they lost a net accumulated total of $91 billion
vkou 6y ago
> Why is the USPS doing so badly when e commerce is doing so well? 1. Because their prices are uniform and fixed by legislature, and they are required by law to serve every part of this country, including remote rural areas. This means that private carriers cherry-pick profitable, high-volume, high-margin parts of mail delivery, while letting USPS handle the unprofitable, negative-margin parts of mail delivery. 2. Because they are actively being sabotaged by the current administration. 3. Because they are forced to pre-fund their pensions. If we required the DoD to pre-fund pensions in the same manner, their budget would double overnight, and four fifths of the military would be fired tomorrow.
- obmelvin 6y ago
  > 1. Because their prices are uniform and fixed by legislature, and they are required by law to serve every part of this country, including remote rural areas. >This means that private carriers cherry-pick profitable, high-volume, high-margin parts of mail delivery, while letting USPS handle the unprofitable, negative-margin parts of mail delivery. This is such an important part that appears [0] to be missing from most recent journalism about the USPS. Unless you want to tell a large portion of this country "sorry, you need to drive X miles to pick up your own mail" someone is going to have to do these delivery routes. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems unlikely that a private company can serve these routes in a clearly fundamentally cheaper manner. There are lower bounds on the costs, i.e. the sparse delivery routes are real geography with real people, you have to physically traverse them to make deliveries. [0] based on my recollection
  - vkou 6y ago
    > Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems unlikely that a private company can serve these routes in a clearly fundamentally cheaper manner. You're not wrong. None of the private mail carriers can beat USPS pricing on these routes and still turn a profit.
x87678r 6y ago
Amazon cherry picks the most profitable routes USPS has huge pensions to pay for retired staff I'm guessing it pays the maintenance for all the beautiful Post Office buildings across the country
me_me_me 6y ago
USPS is a service, not a business.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  That's part of the problem, and it costs everyone, and it only subsidizes advertisers. 52% of USPS volume is junk mail, but it's only ~30% of revenue. It's time to get with the Scandinavian countries and privatize post.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    > It's time to get with Scandinavian countries and privatize post. mmmmkay, > PostNord Sverige (formerly Posten AB) is the name of the Swedish postal service. The word "posten" means "the post" or "the mail" in Swedish. In 2009 it merged with its Danish equivalent, Post Danmark A/S, forming PostNord AB, a holding company that is jointly owned by the Swedish (60%) and Danish (40%) governments. People depend on postage just like they depend on water or electricity. It would be far better to privatize military as it make no money at all! USPS as a governmental institution was attack by politician trying to destabilise it so then they can spew this BS that USPS is not profitable - it was until shackles were put on them. This patter is so overused that by now I would hope people get an idea of it. Take a 'non profit' service institution, its doing too well for private business to compete completely with it. Hit institution with new management change laws, cut funding. Lament how awful given institution is, how old and outdated. Surely this brand new company could do it better, faster. Lets sell institution and give business to those new companies, they know what they are doing. And we will spend that money on filling pockets of contractors building roads we bombed abroad... ups i mean parks, lets build parks. And what is the outcome of that? American healthcare 'system'.

milesdyson_phd 6y ago

Same in Taiwan, you can basically do everything at 7/11.

nickthegreek 6y ago

Im guessing Amazon isn't delivering 2/3 of its rural deliveries.

kube-system 6y ago
I'd guess Amazon delivers 0/3 of their rural deliveries. I've never seen a last-mile Amazon vehicle outside of a major metro.
- nybble41 6y ago
  Amazon does rural deliveries. My parents live in a rural area, over three miles from the nearest town (pop. 1,563), and yet regularly receive parcels from Amazon-branded delivery vehicles. They're not limited to major metros.
- jpindar 6y ago
  They deliver in small towns outside of what I would call a major metro area. Probably not in actual rural areas though.

throwawaygh 6y ago

2/3rds of amazon deliveries are almost certainly in a few dozen cities/metros. USPS absorbed not just their own costs for the long tail, but also everyone else’s.

Fronzie 6y ago

| Why is the USPS doing so badly when e commerce is doing so well? Because it's actively being sabotaged. It's staffing is held back by pension requirements which other parts of government and Amazon do not have. Their perfectly fine working sorting are removed.

Alupis 6y ago
> Because it's actively being sabotaged. I know this is the political line of the day, but the reality is USPS is, has been, and will be insanely inefficient for decades. Decades. That spans multiple presidents from both parties. Decades. The very fact that USPS receives funding by Tax Payers, but also still charges the same tax payers money to use services, and still manages to lose billions of dollars every year is a modern marvel all in it's own right. The very fact it costs USPS more than $0.55 to deliver a letter to your mailbox (which only USPS is legally allowed to put mail into for whatever reason in 2020), is insane. Raise rates they'll say! To what end? To the point where UPS or FedEX rates start looking attractive for normal letter mail? What will happen then to the USPS? For larger packages over a few pounds, it's already insanely cheaper to ship packages via UPS or FedEx. Sometimes over half the price in difference. Neither UPS nor FedEx are subsidized by Tax Payers + Still Charge for Services. Somehow, they make a profit and deliver packages on time. The mismanagement of USPS is as criminal as it is resolute. It is not the current administration's doing - claiming so is not just intellectually dishonest, it's flatly wrong. No, the mismanagement of USPS has always been, and all signs seem to say it will always be. EDIT: It's a myth that USPS isn't tax payer funded. Pay attention to the wording they use - "Not Tax Payer Funded". That says nothing about routine bailouts[1][2][3], which are so routine they might as well be scheduled. How is a bailout not tax payer funding? Run yourself into the ground then get bailed out by tax payers again, and again, and again, and again. It would probably be more efficient to actually just give them the money up front. [1] https://justthenews.com/government/congress/congressman-says-usps-25-billion-bailout-bill-favors-democratic-party-backed https://justthenews.com/government/congress/congressman-says... [2] https://keller.house.gov/media/in-the-news/usps-has-lost-78-billion-2007-despite-receiving-billions-taxpayers-every-year https://keller.house.gov/media/in-the-news/usps-has-lost-78-... [3] https://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/ https://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/

zonethundery 6y ago

Because volumes in its most profitable mail categories (marketing mail, first class mail) have fallen off a cliff. It would take an impossible number of parcels (at thinner margins) to make up for that. 6-day service, rural delivery, profitability; pick two.

labster 6y ago
They were pretty heavily optimized for 1990, with high speed sorting machines for letters. I expect we actually can decommission some of the sorting machines, but since Postmaster deJoy decided to be openly political on ballot delays it will be impossible to tell for a while.

opportune 6y ago

Not only do they have to prefund their pensions very aggressively, but people dump shipments across unprofitable routes on the USPS because they have more uniform pricing

missedthecue 6y ago
Even after pension funding, they lost $3.5 billion last year on operations. They've always been extremely inefficient. Between 1960-1995, they lost a net accumulated total of $91 billion

vkou 6y ago

> Why is the USPS doing so badly when e commerce is doing so well? 1. Because their prices are uniform and fixed by legislature, and they are required by law to serve every part of this country, including remote rural areas. This means that private carriers cherry-pick profitable, high-volume, high-margin parts of mail delivery, while letting USPS handle the unprofitable, negative-margin parts of mail delivery. 2. Because they are actively being sabotaged by the current administration. 3. Because they are forced to pre-fund their pensions. If we required the DoD to pre-fund pensions in the same manner, their budget would double overnight, and four fifths of the military would be fired tomorrow.

obmelvin 6y ago
> 1. Because their prices are uniform and fixed by legislature, and they are required by law to serve every part of this country, including remote rural areas. >This means that private carriers cherry-pick profitable, high-volume, high-margin parts of mail delivery, while letting USPS handle the unprofitable, negative-margin parts of mail delivery. This is such an important part that appears [0] to be missing from most recent journalism about the USPS. Unless you want to tell a large portion of this country "sorry, you need to drive X miles to pick up your own mail" someone is going to have to do these delivery routes. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems unlikely that a private company can serve these routes in a clearly fundamentally cheaper manner. There are lower bounds on the costs, i.e. the sparse delivery routes are real geography with real people, you have to physically traverse them to make deliveries. [0] based on my recollection
- vkou 6y ago
  > Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems unlikely that a private company can serve these routes in a clearly fundamentally cheaper manner. You're not wrong. None of the private mail carriers can beat USPS pricing on these routes and still turn a profit.

x87678r 6y ago

Amazon cherry picks the most profitable routes USPS has huge pensions to pay for retired staff I'm guessing it pays the maintenance for all the beautiful Post Office buildings across the country

me_me_me 6y ago

USPS is a service, not a business.

missedthecue 6y ago
That's part of the problem, and it costs everyone, and it only subsidizes advertisers. 52% of USPS volume is junk mail, but it's only ~30% of revenue. It's time to get with the Scandinavian countries and privatize post.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  > It's time to get with Scandinavian countries and privatize post. mmmmkay, > PostNord Sverige (formerly Posten AB) is the name of the Swedish postal service. The word "posten" means "the post" or "the mail" in Swedish. In 2009 it merged with its Danish equivalent, Post Danmark A/S, forming PostNord AB, a holding company that is jointly owned by the Swedish (60%) and Danish (40%) governments. People depend on postage just like they depend on water or electricity. It would be far better to privatize military as it make no money at all! USPS as a governmental institution was attack by politician trying to destabilise it so then they can spew this BS that USPS is not profitable - it was until shackles were put on them. This patter is so overused that by now I would hope people get an idea of it. Take a 'non profit' service institution, its doing too well for private business to compete completely with it. Hit institution with new management change laws, cut funding. Lament how awful given institution is, how old and outdated. Surely this brand new company could do it better, faster. Lets sell institution and give business to those new companies, they know what they are doing. And we will spend that money on filling pockets of contractors building roads we bombed abroad... ups i mean parks, lets build parks. And what is the outcome of that? American healthcare 'system'.