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Huh, Apple said it would disable Epic's developer accounts? They never threatened anyone using Unreal Engine, and I don't believe they specified UE Developer ac

Huh, Apple said it would disable Epic's developer accounts? They never threatened anyone using Unreal Engine, and I don't believe they specified UE Developer accounts. We can only speculate that UE Developer accounts would have been terminated as we don't really know if Apple was going to terminate those too as they belong to a separate company according to the court documents.

modeless 6y ago
Blocking Epic from developing Unreal Engine is a threat to anyone using it.
- kergonath 6y ago
  Come on. “We’ll remove your license if you keep misbehaving” is in no way similar to “we’ll go after your users and remove their license”. It’s a threat in the long term, if Epic and Apple cannot negotiate something satisfying (which they will eventually, there’s just too much to lose for both of them), but let’s keep some perspective.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    If Apple does not allow Epic to develop Unreal Engine, and Unreal Engine 5 is subsequently not released for Apple computers, that feels like a substantial "threat to anyone using it" to me.
  - mantap 6y ago
    The effects are similar. iOS 14 will be out soon. Epic needs to prepare Unreal Engine to be compatible with it. How can they do this without any developer tools?
    - kergonath 6y ago
      No, the effects are not similar. If Apple removed the developers’ licenses, they could not put anything on the AppStore. If an update to the Unreal Engine gets delayed (I have no doubt it will be resolved at some point), then the current version keeps working on the OS on which it was tested, and the developer’s other applications can still be bought. There is no need for hyperbole.
  - burnte 6y ago
    It's a chain of events. If Epic can't develop on iOS or MacOS, they can't continue to work on Unreal, which makes it effectively an abandoned product for others. Yes, they can still use it, but it would be basically EOL. That was the point in threatening to revoke Epic's license to develop on the platform, and the danger in the increasing monoculture inside Apple. You can only use these specific ordained tools, and they control access to the tools.
    - kergonath 6y ago
      I don’t disagree with you, but again, they are not taking away anyone’s license apart from Epic’s. This is a fact, and there is no way around it. Taking away Epic’s license will have effects on other developers, but this is not the same as revoking their licenses. The OP was not about a constructive discussion of the consequences of that, it was about Apple going after other developers. Which is factually wrong.
      - burnte 6y ago
        Taking away and revoking are the same. The legal work is revoke, they're revoking Epic's license to use MacOS and iOS development tools. That was beyond the scope of the violation, which was an App Store rule violation. The goal of that move was to prevent Epic from even developing non-App Store content, which I don't think anyone could not foresee it affecting other developers, which I'm fairly sure was the intent. I think they overstepped their contractual recourse for the intent of trying to force epic back to the table, because Epic wouldn't want to lose all their iOS customers.
        kergonath 6y ago
        > Taking away and revoking are the same. The legal work is revoke, they're revoking Epic's license to use MacOS and iOS development tools. Sorry, my sentence was poorly worded. They threatened to revoke Epic’s license, not the other developers’ (which, again, is what the OP claimed and is specifically what I disputed). I think they did go overboard with the intent to push Epic to settle, yes. And Epic were ready for a mud fight and called their bluff. It looks like the move was a warning, though, and I don’t think they really would do it, at least not for long: they know how important the Unreal Engine is for the platform. If an agreement is found quickly, the impact on others developers is nil. At least in the short term; this brings trust issues over the longer term.

modeless 6y ago

Blocking Epic from developing Unreal Engine is a threat to anyone using it.

kergonath 6y ago
Come on. “We’ll remove your license if you keep misbehaving” is in no way similar to “we’ll go after your users and remove their license”. It’s a threat in the long term, if Epic and Apple cannot negotiate something satisfying (which they will eventually, there’s just too much to lose for both of them), but let’s keep some perspective.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  If Apple does not allow Epic to develop Unreal Engine, and Unreal Engine 5 is subsequently not released for Apple computers, that feels like a substantial "threat to anyone using it" to me.
- mantap 6y ago
  The effects are similar. iOS 14 will be out soon. Epic needs to prepare Unreal Engine to be compatible with it. How can they do this without any developer tools?
  - kergonath 6y ago
    No, the effects are not similar. If Apple removed the developers’ licenses, they could not put anything on the AppStore. If an update to the Unreal Engine gets delayed (I have no doubt it will be resolved at some point), then the current version keeps working on the OS on which it was tested, and the developer’s other applications can still be bought. There is no need for hyperbole.
- burnte 6y ago
  It's a chain of events. If Epic can't develop on iOS or MacOS, they can't continue to work on Unreal, which makes it effectively an abandoned product for others. Yes, they can still use it, but it would be basically EOL. That was the point in threatening to revoke Epic's license to develop on the platform, and the danger in the increasing monoculture inside Apple. You can only use these specific ordained tools, and they control access to the tools.
  - kergonath 6y ago
    I don’t disagree with you, but again, they are not taking away anyone’s license apart from Epic’s. This is a fact, and there is no way around it. Taking away Epic’s license will have effects on other developers, but this is not the same as revoking their licenses. The OP was not about a constructive discussion of the consequences of that, it was about Apple going after other developers. Which is factually wrong.
    - burnte 6y ago
      Taking away and revoking are the same. The legal work is revoke, they're revoking Epic's license to use MacOS and iOS development tools. That was beyond the scope of the violation, which was an App Store rule violation. The goal of that move was to prevent Epic from even developing non-App Store content, which I don't think anyone could not foresee it affecting other developers, which I'm fairly sure was the intent. I think they overstepped their contractual recourse for the intent of trying to force epic back to the table, because Epic wouldn't want to lose all their iOS customers.
      - kergonath 6y ago
        > Taking away and revoking are the same. The legal work is revoke, they're revoking Epic's license to use MacOS and iOS development tools. Sorry, my sentence was poorly worded. They threatened to revoke Epic’s license, not the other developers’ (which, again, is what the OP claimed and is specifically what I disputed). I think they did go overboard with the intent to push Epic to settle, yes. And Epic were ready for a mud fight and called their bluff. It looks like the move was a warning, though, and I don’t think they really would do it, at least not for long: they know how important the Unreal Engine is for the platform. If an agreement is found quickly, the impact on others developers is nil. At least in the short term; this brings trust issues over the longer term.