5 ms·

For context, the Microsoft Store platform takes a 5% fee compared to Apple’s 30%. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2018/05/07/a-new-microsoft-store-re

by sjroot 6y ago

For context, the Microsoft Store platform takes a 5% fee compared to Apple’s 30%. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2018/05/07/a-new-microsoft-store-revenue-share-is-coming/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2018/05/07/a-new-... This isn’t super surprising. Microsoft is desperate to get people to develop for the Windows platform and this obviously an incentive that developers will find attractive.

koolba 6y ago
That’s peanuts considering the credit card fee itself is going to be 3% as I’d expect there is significantly more fraud for in game purchases than a vanilla shop.
RaptorJ 6y ago
If MS wants to peel developers away from the apple store, why wouldn't they support apple being allowed to maintain their onerous percentage?
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  The best outcome for MS would be if the Apple App Store itself were to become one of several app stores on iOS devices. Then MS could build out the pipeline (largely already possess it) to have their own MS App Store on iOS and Android, paired with their development tools which, really, are topnotch. They wouldn't necessarily need to undercut Apple's percentage, but just reduce friction for development and deployment across OSes.
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    You can already have multiple app stores on Android. They could've done that years ago.
    - Jtsummers 6y ago
      No doubt. I'm just saying what would benefit them. They already have the infrastructure for developing cross-platform software. If this suit, taken to its extreme, breaks Apple's hold on the iOS app store then MS would benefit greatly by having their own app store which worked across their OS and the two primary mobile OSes. As I understand it, though, there's little motivation to sell software on Android versus iOS right now due to the relative lack of sales (that is, iOS users consistently spend more an applications than Android users). I doubt there'd be much incentive to invest in an app store infrastructure on Android right now given the poor expected return (going off of my recollection, Amazon's app store has not done particularly well, what would differentiate MS's from Amazon's right now?). But if you could have the same app store on both iOS and Android, you'd place yourself in a much more compelling position (for users and developers). And since iOS users have demonstrated a willingness to part with their money for software, it's a better target for companies like MS, Steam, Epic, and others than Android (or Android alone).
- nabla9 6y ago
  Competition law does not apply to everyone equally, or every market equally. Smaller the player, smaller the market, less they have restrictions.
twodave 6y ago
Are Windows PC gaming and the XBOX line in such a decline that they could be described as desperate? I really doubt it, but I'm having trouble finding data to back up either argument.
- freeone3000 6y ago
  Most applications run on Windows are not distributed through the Microsoft Store.
- cptskippy 6y ago
  I believe he was referring to the Store on Windows platforms, not Xbox platforms. The Windows Store has games but Microsoft never made a fight against Steam the way Epic has.
  - sjroot 6y ago
    Correct. Sorry that wasn’t clear!
  - criddell 6y ago
    What's the difference between the Windows store and XBox store? Is the revenue split different? Are there different requirements for selling on Windows and XBox?
    - cptskippy 6y ago
      The Windows Store is exclusively for Windows devices and the Xbox store is for Xbox devices.
      - criddell 6y ago
        Is the XBox Store available for anybody to sell in, or do you have to have a relationship with Microsoft?
        cptskippy 6y ago
IdoRA 6y ago
> The new fee structure is applicable to purchases made on Windows 10 PC, Windows Mixed Reality, Windows 10 Mobile and Surface Hub devices and excludes purchases on Xbox consoles. (italics added for emphasis)
hn_check 6y ago
https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-canceling-its-95-revenue-share-program/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-cancelin... Note that Microsoft is not backing Epic in their court case against Apple, because that would be quite the glass house given the xbox (which is a 70/30 split, with virtually identical restrictions as the App Store). Instead they are merely backing them for the injunction to prevent Epic from losing immediate access to development tools.
Razengan 6y ago
> Starting later this year, consumer applications (not including games)
samfisher83 6y ago
You don't need to go through Microsoft store you can just run your application.
Negitivefrags 6y ago
They take 5% if the customer gets to your app via a direct link. But they take 15% if the customer gets to your app via their store. This actually aligns incentives really well. If the user came to you because of the marketing you directly did, you don't pay much more than if you had organised the sale directly on your website. But Microsoft is incentivised to attract people to buying apps through their shop experience directly, and if they do, they get rewarded for it. These are customers that you might not otherwise have attracted yourself, so it's not unreasonable to pay a higher amount for them. I think it's a really great model and I wish that other stores would adopt it.
parliament32 6y ago
Outdated[1], MS takes mostly 30%, occasionally 15% in edge cases[2]... see page 14: https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RE4o4bH https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RE... [1]https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-canceling-its-95-revenue-share-program/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-cancelin... [2]if your app is 1) not a "game", 2) not on xbox or win8, and 3) not purchased in the "for business" or "for education" store
- dylan604 6y ago
  2) Who is releasing content for Win8?
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Those edge cases describe most of the software sold through the MS store...
  - parliament32 6y ago
    I strongly doubt that, considering gaming makes up somewhere around 10% of their total revenue, while app store sale shares fall somewhere deep in an "other" category. Does anyone actually buy non-gaming apps in the MS Store? I don't see anything particularly strong in their top paid apps[1] but I could be wrong. [1]https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/top-paid/apps/pc https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/top-paid/apps/pc
zxcvbn4038 6y ago
Quite a change, I remember when Microsoft could kill software just by announcing it intended to develop a competing product. If you had told me then that one day I'd be using a Mac for daily work I would have not believed it.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  We should view MS with scrutiny due to their history (trying to compete and kill Linux; the SCO bullshit, etc.), but they are the underdog in this particular case and the market has changed quite a bit. I wouldn't think of Microsoft holistically. That being said, this isn't the underdogs vis big players. These are big players, taken on other bigger players, and just kinda incidentally helping a lot of the smaller players ... for now .. but this could just as easily turn again if one of them gets back on top.
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    Microsoft will tear down competitors by building just good enough alternatives and giving them away free/cheap. See Teams vs Slack/Zoom, Github vs Gitlab, etc etc. Nothing has changed. They have almost no alternative but to behave this way.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - pkaye 6y ago
    > the SCO bullshit What is the relation of the SCO lawsuit to Microsoft?
echelon 6y ago
You can install whatever software you want on Windows. It isn't locked down to just the Microsoft Store. There's a giant gulf between Apple's tyrannical platform and the rest of the world.
- schrodinger 6y ago
  You can do that on a Mac too… the obsolete Windows Phone would be a better comparison.
  - echelon 6y ago
    > You can do that on a Mac too Not really https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/unsigned.html https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/unsigned.html It's time to stop being Apple apologists. We're engineers and these are our devices. Apple has no right to fence in our entire industry as a walled garden. It wasn't like this until their grubby behavior with the iPhone. They're clearly taking Mac in that direction. We have to band together to stop them.
muststopmyths 6y ago
For further context, they used to take 30% on the Phone and Desktop store when they launched with Windows/Phone 8. The only reason they take less now is because those were miserable failures. And no, no one finds the Windows store attractive.
lern_too_spel 6y ago
For an apples to apples comparison, Windows Phone allowed sideloading apps, so you could avoid the avoid paying a giving a cut to the store. The sideloading process was convoluted, but it worked.

by sjroot 6y ago

koolba 6y ago

That’s peanuts considering the credit card fee itself is going to be 3% as I’d expect there is significantly more fraud for in game purchases than a vanilla shop.

RaptorJ 6y ago

If MS wants to peel developers away from the apple store, why wouldn't they support apple being allowed to maintain their onerous percentage?

Jtsummers 6y ago
The best outcome for MS would be if the Apple App Store itself were to become one of several app stores on iOS devices. Then MS could build out the pipeline (largely already possess it) to have their own MS App Store on iOS and Android, paired with their development tools which, really, are topnotch. They wouldn't necessarily need to undercut Apple's percentage, but just reduce friction for development and deployment across OSes.
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  You can already have multiple app stores on Android. They could've done that years ago.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    No doubt. I'm just saying what would benefit them. They already have the infrastructure for developing cross-platform software. If this suit, taken to its extreme, breaks Apple's hold on the iOS app store then MS would benefit greatly by having their own app store which worked across their OS and the two primary mobile OSes. As I understand it, though, there's little motivation to sell software on Android versus iOS right now due to the relative lack of sales (that is, iOS users consistently spend more an applications than Android users). I doubt there'd be much incentive to invest in an app store infrastructure on Android right now given the poor expected return (going off of my recollection, Amazon's app store has not done particularly well, what would differentiate MS's from Amazon's right now?). But if you could have the same app store on both iOS and Android, you'd place yourself in a much more compelling position (for users and developers). And since iOS users have demonstrated a willingness to part with their money for software, it's a better target for companies like MS, Steam, Epic, and others than Android (or Android alone).
nabla9 6y ago
Competition law does not apply to everyone equally, or every market equally. Smaller the player, smaller the market, less they have restrictions.

twodave 6y ago

Are Windows PC gaming and the XBOX line in such a decline that they could be described as desperate? I really doubt it, but I'm having trouble finding data to back up either argument.

freeone3000 6y ago
Most applications run on Windows are not distributed through the Microsoft Store.
cptskippy 6y ago
I believe he was referring to the Store on Windows platforms, not Xbox platforms. The Windows Store has games but Microsoft never made a fight against Steam the way Epic has.
- sjroot 6y ago
  Correct. Sorry that wasn’t clear!
- criddell 6y ago
  What's the difference between the Windows store and XBox store? Is the revenue split different? Are there different requirements for selling on Windows and XBox?
  - cptskippy 6y ago
    The Windows Store is exclusively for Windows devices and the Xbox store is for Xbox devices.
    - criddell 6y ago
      Is the XBox Store available for anybody to sell in, or do you have to have a relationship with Microsoft?
      - cptskippy 6y ago

IdoRA 6y ago

> The new fee structure is applicable to purchases made on Windows 10 PC, Windows Mixed Reality, Windows 10 Mobile and Surface Hub devices and excludes purchases on Xbox consoles. (italics added for emphasis)

hn_check 6y ago

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-canceling-its-95-revenue-share-program/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-cancelin... Note that Microsoft is not backing Epic in their court case against Apple, because that would be quite the glass house given the xbox (which is a 70/30 split, with virtually identical restrictions as the App Store). Instead they are merely backing them for the injunction to prevent Epic from losing immediate access to development tools.

Razengan 6y ago

> Starting later this year, consumer applications (not including games)

samfisher83 6y ago

You don't need to go through Microsoft store you can just run your application.

Negitivefrags 6y ago

They take 5% if the customer gets to your app via a direct link. But they take 15% if the customer gets to your app via their store. This actually aligns incentives really well. If the user came to you because of the marketing you directly did, you don't pay much more than if you had organised the sale directly on your website. But Microsoft is incentivised to attract people to buying apps through their shop experience directly, and if they do, they get rewarded for it. These are customers that you might not otherwise have attracted yourself, so it's not unreasonable to pay a higher amount for them. I think it's a really great model and I wish that other stores would adopt it.

parliament32 6y ago

Outdated[1], MS takes mostly 30%, occasionally 15% in edge cases[2]... see page 14: https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RE4o4bH https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RE... [1]https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-canceling-its-95-revenue-share-program/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-apparently-cancelin... [2]if your app is 1) not a "game", 2) not on xbox or win8, and 3) not purchased in the "for business" or "for education" store

dylan604 6y ago
2) Who is releasing content for Win8?
gamblor956 6y ago
Those edge cases describe most of the software sold through the MS store...
- parliament32 6y ago
  I strongly doubt that, considering gaming makes up somewhere around 10% of their total revenue, while app store sale shares fall somewhere deep in an "other" category. Does anyone actually buy non-gaming apps in the MS Store? I don't see anything particularly strong in their top paid apps[1] but I could be wrong. [1]https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/top-paid/apps/pc https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/top-paid/apps/pc

zxcvbn4038 6y ago

Quite a change, I remember when Microsoft could kill software just by announcing it intended to develop a competing product. If you had told me then that one day I'd be using a Mac for daily work I would have not believed it.

djsumdog 6y ago
We should view MS with scrutiny due to their history (trying to compete and kill Linux; the SCO bullshit, etc.), but they are the underdog in this particular case and the market has changed quite a bit. I wouldn't think of Microsoft holistically. That being said, this isn't the underdogs vis big players. These are big players, taken on other bigger players, and just kinda incidentally helping a lot of the smaller players ... for now .. but this could just as easily turn again if one of them gets back on top.
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  Microsoft will tear down competitors by building just good enough alternatives and giving them away free/cheap. See Teams vs Slack/Zoom, Github vs Gitlab, etc etc. Nothing has changed. They have almost no alternative but to behave this way.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- pkaye 6y ago
  > the SCO bullshit What is the relation of the SCO lawsuit to Microsoft?

echelon 6y ago

You can install whatever software you want on Windows. It isn't locked down to just the Microsoft Store. There's a giant gulf between Apple's tyrannical platform and the rest of the world.

schrodinger 6y ago
You can do that on a Mac too… the obsolete Windows Phone would be a better comparison.
- echelon 6y ago
  > You can do that on a Mac too Not really https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/unsigned.html https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/unsigned.html It's time to stop being Apple apologists. We're engineers and these are our devices. Apple has no right to fence in our entire industry as a walled garden. It wasn't like this until their grubby behavior with the iPhone. They're clearly taking Mac in that direction. We have to band together to stop them.

muststopmyths 6y ago

For further context, they used to take 30% on the Phone and Desktop store when they launched with Windows/Phone 8. The only reason they take less now is because those were miserable failures. And no, no one finds the Windows store attractive.

lern_too_spel 6y ago

For an apples to apples comparison, Windows Phone allowed sideloading apps, so you could avoid the avoid paying a giving a cut to the store. The sideloading process was convoluted, but it worked.