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Microsoft backs Epic in court filing
- notafraudster 6y agoDupe of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24253943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24253943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24257455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24257455
- Razengan 6y agoDoes Microsoft allow any other stores on the Xbox? What % do they take from game sales?
- ameen 6y agoYup - physical stores such as GameStop, Bestbuy, Target, etc have been selling Xbox media for quite sometime.
- djsumdog 6y agoThat's true for games distributed via disc (I'm very glad the PS5 still has a disc option; I do not want to lose the used game market), but that's only for the big titles. Independent developers don't have used game sales and still dependent on xbox, PS Store, Steam, Humble, GoG, etc.
- criddell 6y agoThat's not a very meaningful distinction. Microsoft still gets their cut and till approves every title. An independent XBox store would remove Microsoft from the loop. If Epic wins in court (and I hope they do), then the consoles are next in line to be forced open.
- RealStickman_ 6y agoConsoles have a very different purpose from phones. Niche gaming-focused item vs general purpose computer (that was apple's ipad marketing at least)
- criddell 6y agoDoes it really matter how it's marketed? We know that an XBox is mostly a Windows PC. There's all kinds of software I'd like to load onto an XBox-like device. A PC in the living room connected to a large TV has a lot of potential. I'd like to write software for it and I'm sure I'm not alone.
- jtsiskin 6y agoThis is pretty funny because Xbox has the same store restrictions (impossible to install from another source, all games approved by them, takes a revenue percentage) Apple does.
- addicted 6y agoI know this is a popular rebuttal, but are video games consoles really comparable to phones, which are nothing but general purpose computers?
- akersten 6y agoWhat is the difference between the capabilities of the console hardware and the phone hardware? The console hardware is actually more powerful. PS3's were used as general purpose computers until Sony removed OtherOS functionality. This is nothing but defensive "don't sue us next" posturing by Microsoft. Consoles are just as general purpose as a phone. The only difference is the software veneer running on top.
- pkaye 6y agoThose game systems allows purchasing from physical stores. Does Apple allow that?
- threeseed 6y agoMany (or even most) PS5 users will not be able to purchase from physical stores since the cheapest model does not ship with a BluRay drive. And it's likely PS5 Pro or PS6 will not support this model at all.
- romanoderoma 6y agoI can sell digital subscriptions on after market for console games Can I sell my iPhone apps?
- sjroot 6y agoFor context, the Microsoft Store platform takes a 5% fee compared to Apple’s 30%. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2018/05/07/a-new-microsoft-store-revenue-share-is-coming/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2018/05/07/a-new-... This isn’t super surprising. Microsoft is desperate to get people to develop for the Windows platform and this obviously an incentive that developers will find attractive.
- koolba 6y agoThat’s peanuts considering the credit card fee itself is going to be 3% as I’d expect there is significantly more fraud for in game purchases than a vanilla shop.
- RaptorJ 6y agoIf MS wants to peel developers away from the apple store, why wouldn't they support apple being allowed to maintain their onerous percentage?
- Jtsummers 6y agoThe best outcome for MS would be if the Apple App Store itself were to become one of several app stores on iOS devices. Then MS could build out the pipeline (largely already possess it) to have their own MS App Store on iOS and Android, paired with their development tools which, really, are topnotch. They wouldn't necessarily need to undercut Apple's percentage, but just reduce friction for development and deployment across OSes.
- robertlagrant 6y agoYou can already have multiple app stores on Android. They could've done that years ago.
- Jtsummers 6y agoNo doubt. I'm just saying what would benefit them. They already have the infrastructure for developing cross-platform software. If this suit, taken to its extreme, breaks Apple's hold on the iOS app store then MS would benefit greatly by having their own app store which worked across their OS and the two primary mobile OSes. As I understand it, though, there's little motivation to sell software on Android versus iOS right now due to the relative lack of sales (that is, iOS users consistently spend more an applications than Android users). I doubt there'd be much incentive to invest in an app store infrastructure on Android right now given the poor expected return (going off of my recollection, Amazon's app store has not done particularly well, what would differentiate MS's from Amazon's right now?). But if you could have the same app store on both iOS and Android, you'd place yourself in a much more compelling position (for users and developers). And since iOS users have demonstrated a willingness to part with their money for software, it's a better target for companies like MS, Steam, Epic, and others than Android (or Android alone).
- giancarlostoro 6y agoFor those who missed it this is the quote that matters here: > In an escalation, Apple then said it would pull Epic's access to developer tools on iOS and Mac. > But Microsoft said this would damage a "critical technology" for many third-party game creators. > That is because Epic also owns the Unreal Engine - a tool widely used by developers from other studios to build games, virtual-reality VR experiences and special effects in major television shows and films. > Microsoft uses the technology itself. YIKES, how much longer is this going to go on?
- stingraycharles 6y agoI may be missing the point, but does this imply that no games based on the Unreal engine could be developed for Mac anymore, as Epic themselves will be unable to develop for it / support it?
- yegle 6y agoIt means they cannot fix breakages before a new version of iOS/macOS is generally available, and they won't have access to the new ARM CPU devkit that's critical to port their engine to ARM based macOS.
- giancarlostoro 6y agoThis is what I'm taking it as. They probably have special access in order to get their engine ready for the latest iOS updates. This move on Apple's part is very abusive. People elsewhere in the thread are comparing Microsoft, but Microsoft wouldn't cripple developer tools because an app from a vendor abused its guidelines. Any store willing to do this has gone too far.
- pwinnski 6y agoThis does seems like an abusive move by Apple. I note that Epic continues to provide a version of Fortnite that violates the rules and provides the ability to buy in-game currency at a lower price through their own store, and has filed legal papers requesting that Apple be forced to support this while the court case proceeds. This seems like an abusive move by Epic. Two wrong don't make a right, but it's tough to see how this isn't a direct result of Epic's actions, and more to the point, something Epic could fix in less than an hour by turning off their violating store. Turn it back when/if you win the court case, Epic. Right now it seems like you bet that Apple wouldn't call your bluff, and you lost. They did.
- throWaythxMod 6y agoEpic needs to offer a 30% discount for anyone who gets their content from their website. And while I'm not sure if you can side load on Apple products, if you can't, don't offer your services on Apple products. Customers will move as they wakeup to their horrible business practices.
- izacus 6y ago- Apple forbids people from buying content on their website. - Apple forbids developers from mentioning that the content might be cheaper elsewhere. So that won't work.
- throWaythxMod 6y agoKk, so my other answer. Refuse to develop for Apple.
- eyesee 6y ago> - Apple forbids people from buying content on their website. Not quite. Apple forbids directing users to a web site from within your app to sidestep in-app purchases. If you offer any digital purchases through your app, they must use IAP.
- gruez 6y agoAFAIK they did something like that before (ie. they offered x% off coupon, paid out of their own pocket), and several publishers adjusted their pricing up/down so their games wouldn't be eligible for the discount. I believe the reason was that they didn't want to "devalue" their games. random source: https://www.vg247.com/2020/05/18/the-witcher-3-epic-store-10-usd-coupon/ https://www.vg247.com/2020/05/18/the-witcher-3-epic-store-10...
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- wayneftw 6y agoI wonder what car manufacturing companies think about all of this? In my state and I think in much of the US, we're not allowed to buy directly from the car manufacturer. I never liked that law because I don't like car dealerships, but now I'm beginning to see why those laws that keep car dealerships in business might have passed.
- djsumdog 6y agoTangential: right to repair laws in some places state that a consumer should be able to buy any tool, part or manual that is available to a dealership. Tesla manages to get around selling parts to consumers ... because they don't have any dealerships.
- stingraycharles 6y ago> In my state and I think in much of the US, we're not allowed to buy directly from the car manufacturer. Huh, what, in what way is that law a good thing?
- dylan604 6y agoIf you're a dealership, it's an amazing thing. This is why you cannot buy a Tesla in TX.
- mikewhy 6y agoPart of me wonders if this is Microsoft just trying to align with Epic, in the cast that the courts do side with Epic, who in turn use that ruling against Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo.
- Okawari 6y agoI wonder if it is because they believe that their cloud gaming platform will be more lucrative than XBox in a few years and think that not having to pay apple the 30% and still have access to the iOS userbase will be more profitable. I for one wouldn't mind if this case ended up forcing Apple to loosen their restrictions in regards to sideloading and other app stores on the device. A pipe dream, but one can hope.
- EdwinLarkin 6y agoI hope we can also get rid of VAT. I dont want to pay the 20% on everything because my government cant manage things more efficiently. You say I should just move to a country with a lower VAT? Yeah not that easy. I dont condone apple on what they are doing with their platform but you need to understand that Apple sets a standard and that standard costs money.
- Experiment627 6y agoGood. I hope Appe loses this.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- newbie578 6y agoFull support for Msft and Epic! Time to bring the dictator (Apple) down. And when that day arrives, it will be a tragedy on HN since tears will be shed by Apple fanboys. Hint: You cannot support anti-competitive practices because you like your Mac :)
- mandeeeeeep 6y agoMicrosoft seems to be doing everything they can to push everyone to writing platform agnostic software: 1. Game streaming, which opens the doors to app streaming 2. Progressive Web Apps, teaming with google to create a tool to publish them directly to the Android Play Store 3. At one point, they created tools to port iOS and Android apps to windows mobile 4. Investing in React Native and Xamarin Personally, I am not a fan since today, the quality of these apps are really bad and give developers too much power. But seems Microsoft is trying to get a foothold to relaunch Windows Mobile again once more apps switch over