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FTA : "The teacher ought also to be especially on his guard against taking unfair advantage of the student's immaturity by indoctrinating him with the teacher's

FTA : "The teacher ought also to be especially on his guard against taking unfair advantage of the student's immaturity by indoctrinating him with the teacher's own opinions before the student has had an opportunity fairly to examine other opinions upon the matters in question, and before he has sufficient knowledge and ripeness of judgment to be entitled to form any definitive opinion of his own. It is not the least service which a college or university may render to those under its instruction, to habituate them to looking not only patiently but methodically on both sides, before adopting any conclusion upon controverted issues." The above is even more important in schools, where teachers impose their ideology on even younger students, who have no concept of multiple opinions. This can only be called brainwashing.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
If that's what happens, I guess so. I (once a kid) had teachers, and very few if any would do that. They were willing to explain their reasons and to leave open interpretations. They were educators not indoctrinators.
gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
I mean the 1619 project is education as indoctrination and it's making it's way into curriculum. The aim isn't to educate (i.e. teach how to think, explore knowledge, form and examine arguments, etc.; not what to think) but form opinion and install ideology.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  By simply saying "The aim isn't to educate [...] but form opinion and install ideology" you're doing exactly what you're accusing them of, which is to make an unsubstantiated claim and expect others to believe it. Aim higher.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Can you elaborate on your concern? The authors of the 1619 project agree that it's not a neutral historical review - the lead author has consistently said that it's "reframing history", "using history and reporting to make an argument", "explicitly seeks to challenge the national narrative". It's infeasible to expect commenters to provide detailed citations for every fact they reference.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      My 'concern' was clear. He was doing what he accused others of doing. > The authors of the 1619 project agree that it's not a neutral historical review cite? > "reframing history" I'm not sure what that means but link, please? > "using history and reporting to make an argument" What's your objection to that? Should they have used bluster and lies instead - what do you want? (and cite for that quote, pls) > "explicitly seeks to challenge the national narrative" If the national narrative was wrong then that's reasonable (and cite, pls) > It's infeasible to expect commenters to provide detailed citations for every fact they reference. Perhaps, but some backup is necessary for verification.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        Respectfully, your questions can be easily answered by reading the 1619 project. For example, every article within the project contains the following insert, describing it as an activist effort and containing the quote about "reframing history": > The 1619 Project is an ongoing initiative from The New York Times Magazine that began in August 2019, the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative. If you want a specific link, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/black-history-american-democracy.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/blac... was the first article, but as I mentioned this insert is present in all the others.
        throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

If that's what happens, I guess so. I (once a kid) had teachers, and very few if any would do that. They were willing to explain their reasons and to leave open interpretations. They were educators not indoctrinators.

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago

I mean the 1619 project is education as indoctrination and it's making it's way into curriculum. The aim isn't to educate (i.e. teach how to think, explore knowledge, form and examine arguments, etc.; not what to think) but form opinion and install ideology.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
By simply saying "The aim isn't to educate [...] but form opinion and install ideology" you're doing exactly what you're accusing them of, which is to make an unsubstantiated claim and expect others to believe it. Aim higher.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on your concern? The authors of the 1619 project agree that it's not a neutral historical review - the lead author has consistently said that it's "reframing history", "using history and reporting to make an argument", "explicitly seeks to challenge the national narrative". It's infeasible to expect commenters to provide detailed citations for every fact they reference.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    My 'concern' was clear. He was doing what he accused others of doing. > The authors of the 1619 project agree that it's not a neutral historical review cite? > "reframing history" I'm not sure what that means but link, please? > "using history and reporting to make an argument" What's your objection to that? Should they have used bluster and lies instead - what do you want? (and cite for that quote, pls) > "explicitly seeks to challenge the national narrative" If the national narrative was wrong then that's reasonable (and cite, pls) > It's infeasible to expect commenters to provide detailed citations for every fact they reference. Perhaps, but some backup is necessary for verification.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Respectfully, your questions can be easily answered by reading the 1619 project. For example, every article within the project contains the following insert, describing it as an activist effort and containing the quote about "reframing history": > The 1619 Project is an ongoing initiative from The New York Times Magazine that began in August 2019, the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative. If you want a specific link, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/black-history-american-democracy.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/blac... was the first article, but as I mentioned this insert is present in all the others.
      - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago