5 ms·

How is "incel" not a slur? Do people who are called incels actually like the label or has it been imposed on them as a pejorative? If so, why is acceptable?

controversy 6y ago
The reason it is an ok them slur is because they are not in fashion. They are seen as one of the last bastions of the patriarchy. Therefore they are the enemy. You will find they are often equated with Nazis. Since you can punch a Nazi, you should be able insult them without getting in trouble.
- cvhashim 6y ago
  You forgot this —> /s
btilly 6y ago
Incel stands for "Involuntarily Celibate", and is a self-applied label. The subsequent online behavior of people who so self-identified is what has given it a bad reputation. But no matter how clearly they demonstrate the reasons why they remain celibate, the incels seem to remain proud of their label. Normal people, of course, see "incel" as a slur.
- dependenttypes 6y ago
  > and is a self-applied label Is it though? You sometimes see people in the "woke" crowd call someone an incel without them self-identifying as one.
  - JohnBooty 6y ago
    Yes, you do see that. The etymology here is muddled... as etymology almost always is. It's also pretty interesting. The Wikipedia article has a really (surprisingly) good rundown on the history of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel So, yes, it was originally a term of self-identification dating all the way back to the 1990s. Usage as an insult began after self-identified incels began making headlines by murdering people. After that, "incel" became shorthand for men who were bitter, alienated, misogynistic, and potentially violent. A very similar thing happened in the 1990s, after a string of workplace killings by postal workers in the U.S. -- the phrase "going postal" entered the vernacular for a time. When "incel" is used as an insult like this, I don't believe it is ever meant as a literal reference to the subject's sexual activity or lack thereof; only as a reference to their bitter attitude.
    - dependenttypes 6y ago
      The same holds true for the words "nigger" and "faggot" however, yet somehow both of these are bad but "incel" is okay.
    - dependenttypes 6y ago
      The same holds true for the words [censored] and [censored] however, yet somehow both of these are bad but "incel" is okay. I had to repost it because https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24250085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24250085 does not appear when viewing it outside of my account.
      - luckylion 6y ago
        Those two are used by the far right, while this one is used by the (far) left. Much like folks on imgur will unironically call for lynchings of right wing idiots who did some heinous stuff but will be outraged if some right wing forum calls for the same of left wing idiots who did some heinous stuff. Controlling slurs (and even more so: pretending that a slur that you use as a slur isn't a slur) is a tactical maneuver on the rhetorical battle field. A common argument is "but this is given based on behavior". It's a bad argument, because the same is true for most usages of any slur.
        JohnBooty 6y ago
        - One is a slur based strictly on the color of one's skin - One is a slur based on one's sexual preferences - One is a slur based on a self-applied label some have chosen for themselves and represents (and I am phrasing this as neutrally as possible) a very specific set of beliefs Which one of these is not like the others?
        privacy_bodger 6y ago
        All three words are generally considered OK when used by people in those communities, and generally considered as slurs when used by people who are not.
mhh__ 6y ago
Bit of yes, bit of no. There are some forums where you can find (I assume some are playing along but clearly some believe) people with, I'll just summarise as , worrying views about women. The term doesn't really refer to unattractive people as much as people who clearly have a chip on their shoulder and believe they are entitled to a woman (or man, but nearly always women). It is a slur but some of "them" do use it to refer to themselves.
wegs 6y ago
As far as I know, that's how the communities describe themselves. I don't think it's imposed from the outside. That's not to say that it hasn't been used as an insult -- it has -- but as far as I know, it's the preferred term. More background: https://incels.wiki/w/Etymology https://incels.wiki/w/Etymology https://incels.wiki/w/Incel https://incels.wiki/w/Incel I'll mention that the current obsession with which words are used is not actually culturally sensitive. Words vary in meaning based on culture, and being exclusive on what words one can and cannot say isn't helpful. What's important is the meaning behind the word. The same word can be a nasty slur when used by one person, a term of endearment by another, a word of praise by a third, and academically neutral by a fourth. Policing words is the opposite of cultural competency.
1123581321 6y ago
It seems to have become more presumptively and pejoratively used as the term became popularized by the news. Anecdotally, I’ve overheard it used in a “gross, he must be an incel” sense a couple of times this year, and never before then. I think that usage is really unfair to the targets as the term now means much more than just “unable to get laid.”
drdeca 6y ago
The people who initially called themselves “incels” were presumably not using it as a pejorative, but on the other hand there are people who, having not called themselves by the term, have been referred to by others using the term as a pejorative. I am no longer sure what the word “slur” means. My best guesses are “a pejorative which morally should not be used”, “a pejorative which social consensus has condemned the use of”, “a pejorative against a class which social consensus has decided should be a protected class”, but I’m not sure. Is “truescum” a slur? Idk.

controversy 6y ago

The reason it is an ok them slur is because they are not in fashion. They are seen as one of the last bastions of the patriarchy. Therefore they are the enemy. You will find they are often equated with Nazis. Since you can punch a Nazi, you should be able insult them without getting in trouble.

cvhashim 6y ago
You forgot this —> /s

btilly 6y ago

Incel stands for "Involuntarily Celibate", and is a self-applied label. The subsequent online behavior of people who so self-identified is what has given it a bad reputation. But no matter how clearly they demonstrate the reasons why they remain celibate, the incels seem to remain proud of their label. Normal people, of course, see "incel" as a slur.

dependenttypes 6y ago
> and is a self-applied label Is it though? You sometimes see people in the "woke" crowd call someone an incel without them self-identifying as one.
- JohnBooty 6y ago
  Yes, you do see that. The etymology here is muddled... as etymology almost always is. It's also pretty interesting. The Wikipedia article has a really (surprisingly) good rundown on the history of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel So, yes, it was originally a term of self-identification dating all the way back to the 1990s. Usage as an insult began after self-identified incels began making headlines by murdering people. After that, "incel" became shorthand for men who were bitter, alienated, misogynistic, and potentially violent. A very similar thing happened in the 1990s, after a string of workplace killings by postal workers in the U.S. -- the phrase "going postal" entered the vernacular for a time. When "incel" is used as an insult like this, I don't believe it is ever meant as a literal reference to the subject's sexual activity or lack thereof; only as a reference to their bitter attitude.
  - dependenttypes 6y ago
    The same holds true for the words "nigger" and "faggot" however, yet somehow both of these are bad but "incel" is okay.
  - dependenttypes 6y ago
    The same holds true for the words [censored] and [censored] however, yet somehow both of these are bad but "incel" is okay. I had to repost it because https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24250085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24250085 does not appear when viewing it outside of my account.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      Those two are used by the far right, while this one is used by the (far) left. Much like folks on imgur will unironically call for lynchings of right wing idiots who did some heinous stuff but will be outraged if some right wing forum calls for the same of left wing idiots who did some heinous stuff. Controlling slurs (and even more so: pretending that a slur that you use as a slur isn't a slur) is a tactical maneuver on the rhetorical battle field. A common argument is "but this is given based on behavior". It's a bad argument, because the same is true for most usages of any slur.
      - JohnBooty 6y ago
        - One is a slur based strictly on the color of one's skin - One is a slur based on one's sexual preferences - One is a slur based on a self-applied label some have chosen for themselves and represents (and I am phrasing this as neutrally as possible) a very specific set of beliefs Which one of these is not like the others?
        privacy_bodger 6y ago
        All three words are generally considered OK when used by people in those communities, and generally considered as slurs when used by people who are not.

mhh__ 6y ago

Bit of yes, bit of no. There are some forums where you can find (I assume some are playing along but clearly some believe) people with, I'll just summarise as , worrying views about women. The term doesn't really refer to unattractive people as much as people who clearly have a chip on their shoulder and believe they are entitled to a woman (or man, but nearly always women). It is a slur but some of "them" do use it to refer to themselves.

wegs 6y ago

As far as I know, that's how the communities describe themselves. I don't think it's imposed from the outside. That's not to say that it hasn't been used as an insult -- it has -- but as far as I know, it's the preferred term. More background: https://incels.wiki/w/Etymology https://incels.wiki/w/Etymology https://incels.wiki/w/Incel https://incels.wiki/w/Incel I'll mention that the current obsession with which words are used is not actually culturally sensitive. Words vary in meaning based on culture, and being exclusive on what words one can and cannot say isn't helpful. What's important is the meaning behind the word. The same word can be a nasty slur when used by one person, a term of endearment by another, a word of praise by a third, and academically neutral by a fourth. Policing words is the opposite of cultural competency.

1123581321 6y ago

It seems to have become more presumptively and pejoratively used as the term became popularized by the news. Anecdotally, I’ve overheard it used in a “gross, he must be an incel” sense a couple of times this year, and never before then. I think that usage is really unfair to the targets as the term now means much more than just “unable to get laid.”

drdeca 6y ago

The people who initially called themselves “incels” were presumably not using it as a pejorative, but on the other hand there are people who, having not called themselves by the term, have been referred to by others using the term as a pejorative. I am no longer sure what the word “slur” means. My best guesses are “a pejorative which morally should not be used”, “a pejorative which social consensus has condemned the use of”, “a pejorative against a class which social consensus has decided should be a protected class”, but I’m not sure. Is “truescum” a slur? Idk.