5 ms·

That's cool and all, except everyone in that country had 2 sim cards with 2 numbers. They don't have free long distance over there, nor are plans for cheap text

That's cool and all, except everyone in that country had 2 sim cards with 2 numbers. They don't have free long distance over there, nor are plans for cheap text+data the same plans as cheap calls. So I take this information to mean this poll was useless. Everyone who voted could vote twice, and felons and kids voted too.

schmorptron 6y ago
Wait, how is felons voting a bad thing?
- atoav 6y ago
  Probably from the US, they didn't sign the human rights treaty and are a bit.. underdeveloped at that front.
  - bennysonething 6y ago
    On the human rights front? Compared to most of the rest of the world they are extremely developed. At least free speech is protected which is more than can be said for most common of Europe now.
    - ric2b 6y ago
      Can you share some examples of large infringements on freedom of speech that happened in well developed European countries? Given the examples of police brutality related to protests that I've seen in the US just this year I doubt you'll be able to provide any examples that are more worrying than that.
      - selectodude 6y ago
        The UK’s insane libel laws are a good example.
        ric2b 6y ago
        Do you have any specific examples that show how insane they are? Because the US also has libel laws.
        Robin_Message 6y ago
        Simon Singh was successfully sued by the British Chiropractic association for pointing out they are quacks. (Edit to add: I just checked and he appealed a point of law successfully and then they withdrew — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Associati... — but as I understand it such a case would be laughed out of a US court.) Although I'd agree with the general point that whilst America has good theoretically human rights, the EU is better at actual rights (and in particular, rights against corporations).
        TeaDrunk 6y ago
        But overall UK probably still ranks as treating its basic citizens with better decency than the USA due to healthcare access among other things.
      - crondung 6y ago
        eu does not have freedom of speech, the have freedom if acceptable speech as defined by the government. go swear at a cop, claim the holocaust wasn't real, say a religious slur, etc. you'll be arrested. source: i've been to every eu country, and lived in several. your protest examples have nothing to do with free speech.
    - Pyramus 6y ago
      You will be hard pressed to find an index that aims to measure Human Rights where the US scores better than the main European countries such as Germany, UK, France, Italy, Netherlands etc. Press Freedom Index [1]: Nope Human Rights Scores & Human Rights Violations [2]: Nope and nope [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index [2] https://ourworldindata.org/human-rights https://ourworldindata.org/human-rights
  - ryan_j_naughton 6y ago
    > are a bit.. underdeveloped at that front Nice euphemism. Yes, it is one the areas where America is truly a backward nation. Here's hoping we can finally correct the systemic issues undermining our representative democracy and can thus have a more progressive government come 2021.
    - atoav 6y ago
      I hope for that as well, it is quite hard to watch for everybody with a heart. In fact this empathy/pain might be the only reason I'd even bother to formulate my response..
oddx 6y ago
> That's cool and all, except everyone in that country had 2 sim cards with 2 numbers. This is not true. Some people have multiple SIM cards, but it is not even remotely close to "everyone". Based on numbers that I found, multiple SIMs have around 30% people.
phs318u 6y ago
Unless you’ve got some info to show that the distribution of people with 2 sims, or with kids, isn’t the same across different voting populations across the country, what you’re pointing out is irrelevant to the ratio of votes between the candidates, and only pertinent to the absolute numbers.
- notSupplied 6y ago
  You raise an interesting point here: Who has the burden of proof here? Should disparity in SIM card ownership be proven? Or the fact that they are evenly distributed be proven? Few things in life are evenly distributed, disparity is the norm!
- crondung 6y ago
  the distribution is everyone, as i've observed by being in russia and belarus for years. the ratio? you need a source to show you young people use telegram on a phone and old people use real telegrams, in belarus? you need a source to show you old people vote for ussr-time dictators? it's up to you to give the source, since you claim this telegram statistic to be a valid representation of votes. me, i know first hand it's not.
p00f 6y ago
Sure but both sides could do that right?

schmorptron 6y ago

Wait, how is felons voting a bad thing?

atoav 6y ago
Probably from the US, they didn't sign the human rights treaty and are a bit.. underdeveloped at that front.
- bennysonething 6y ago
  On the human rights front? Compared to most of the rest of the world they are extremely developed. At least free speech is protected which is more than can be said for most common of Europe now.
  - ric2b 6y ago
    Can you share some examples of large infringements on freedom of speech that happened in well developed European countries? Given the examples of police brutality related to protests that I've seen in the US just this year I doubt you'll be able to provide any examples that are more worrying than that.
    - selectodude 6y ago
      The UK’s insane libel laws are a good example.
      - ric2b 6y ago
        Do you have any specific examples that show how insane they are? Because the US also has libel laws.
        Robin_Message 6y ago
        Simon Singh was successfully sued by the British Chiropractic association for pointing out they are quacks. (Edit to add: I just checked and he appealed a point of law successfully and then they withdrew — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Associati... — but as I understand it such a case would be laughed out of a US court.) Although I'd agree with the general point that whilst America has good theoretically human rights, the EU is better at actual rights (and in particular, rights against corporations).
      - TeaDrunk 6y ago
        But overall UK probably still ranks as treating its basic citizens with better decency than the USA due to healthcare access among other things.
    - crondung 6y ago
      eu does not have freedom of speech, the have freedom if acceptable speech as defined by the government. go swear at a cop, claim the holocaust wasn't real, say a religious slur, etc. you'll be arrested. source: i've been to every eu country, and lived in several. your protest examples have nothing to do with free speech.
  - Pyramus 6y ago
    You will be hard pressed to find an index that aims to measure Human Rights where the US scores better than the main European countries such as Germany, UK, France, Italy, Netherlands etc. Press Freedom Index [1]: Nope Human Rights Scores & Human Rights Violations [2]: Nope and nope [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index [2] https://ourworldindata.org/human-rights https://ourworldindata.org/human-rights
- ryan_j_naughton 6y ago
  > are a bit.. underdeveloped at that front Nice euphemism. Yes, it is one the areas where America is truly a backward nation. Here's hoping we can finally correct the systemic issues undermining our representative democracy and can thus have a more progressive government come 2021.
  - atoav 6y ago
    I hope for that as well, it is quite hard to watch for everybody with a heart. In fact this empathy/pain might be the only reason I'd even bother to formulate my response..

oddx 6y ago

> That's cool and all, except everyone in that country had 2 sim cards with 2 numbers. This is not true. Some people have multiple SIM cards, but it is not even remotely close to "everyone". Based on numbers that I found, multiple SIMs have around 30% people.

phs318u 6y ago

Unless you’ve got some info to show that the distribution of people with 2 sims, or with kids, isn’t the same across different voting populations across the country, what you’re pointing out is irrelevant to the ratio of votes between the candidates, and only pertinent to the absolute numbers.

notSupplied 6y ago
You raise an interesting point here: Who has the burden of proof here? Should disparity in SIM card ownership be proven? Or the fact that they are evenly distributed be proven? Few things in life are evenly distributed, disparity is the norm!
crondung 6y ago
the distribution is everyone, as i've observed by being in russia and belarus for years. the ratio? you need a source to show you young people use telegram on a phone and old people use real telegrams, in belarus? you need a source to show you old people vote for ussr-time dictators? it's up to you to give the source, since you claim this telegram statistic to be a valid representation of votes. me, i know first hand it's not.

p00f 6y ago

Sure but both sides could do that right?