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> There’s VR, but I believe there will be a new category introduced within the next five years that will change the gaming landscape. I have been dreaming of b

> There’s VR, but I believe there will be a new category introduced within the next five years that will change the gaming landscape. I have been dreaming of better interfaces (controllers) for games for decades. The Wii, despite it's limited power, was a huge leap forward in how we played games. Unfortunately Nintendo is the only gaming company taking risks while Microsoft and Sony keep doubling down on graphics with the same controllers from 30 years ago. If someone made a non-VR console with VR-style controllers it would be a huge leap. Instead we keep getting the same old immersion-killing 4-button-mashing consoles and games with upgraded graphics cards.

maroonblazer 6y ago
Keep in mind that 1/3 of the population suffer from motion sickness, so for them (I'm in this group) VR isn't an option for the most part. Of course if this is a solvable problem - those who otherwise suffer from motion sickness are symptom-free in any VR application - then I agree VR could have a bright future.
- gsich 6y ago
  That can probably be trained away.
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    Even assuming this is true (I'd be inclined to doubt it) why on earth would anyone bother?
    - zrkrlc 6y ago
      Because all your friends are playing a VR MMO and are talking about it nonstop on social media
  - pen2l 6y ago
    Go on, how? I'm getting into boat-sailing, and I'm saddened by the nausea it causes. I'm looking into ways to reduce this, and I'm thinking ways to deal with motion sickness incurred in VR-games is probably applicable to me.
    - mr_toad 6y ago
      I go sailing and don’t get nausea much these days. But VR still makes me queasy after an hour or two.
      - worldsayshi 6y ago
        Add others have hinted, it depends a lot on which games you play, how well they perform and their locomotion mechanics.
    - gsich 6y ago
      Exposure
    - worldsayshi 6y ago
      Nausea at sea is definitely something that typically goes away at least after a couple of days at sea. You get "sea legs". But if you're having it more as a now and then hobby I'm not sure but I recon that there's a long term training element in it as well.
      - hnick 6y ago
        Interestingly, it's the same when you go into space. Around half the people experience it and there doesn't seem to be a link between people who get motion sick and those who get space sick. Symptoms can be mild to relatively severe but people tend to adjust after a few days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_adaptation_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_adaptation_syndrome
- danielheath 6y ago
  I get quite motion-sick. Boat rides are - at best - mildly unpleasant. After trying the oculus dk1 roller coaster demo, I was incapable of doing anything for 4-5 hours and still felt sick days later. I play beat saber regularly; taking off the vive after an hour I feel mildly disoriented for about half a minute and then I am fine. The tech has progressed tremendously and no longer gives me any trouble (which may not hold true for everyone but it’s definitely been fine for me)!
  - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    The DK1 was basically the same as google cardboard in terms of tech... I still have mine under my desk.
  - squeaky-clean 6y ago
    A big part of it is does your ingame motion match your real world motion. In games like Beat Saber the only movements are from you physically moving. I've had a VR headset for maybe 4 years now and can still only play racing games for about an hour before motion sickness starts to settle in. I bet the roller coaster demo would be much less disorienting if one sat in a motion simulator. I'd love to own one eventually for my sim-racing setup.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  With modern VR techniques (teleportation) and hardware (Vive/Rift hardware or later), this is no longer a problem.
  - Shacklz 6y ago
    Wouldn't generalize this; I think there are also factors like game performance (FPS) that are at play. I can play Beat Saber and HL:Alyx just fine on the Vive without any issues whatsoever, but whenever I want to give 'Blade & Sorcery' another try I feel absolutely terrible after a few minutes of gameplay. I do think it's poor performance (low FPS and 'location stutter' where the game seemingly can't decide where to place me exactly) are the cause, but I could not place a finger on when/where exactly the threshold is where I start to feel sick.
    - throwaway3699 6y ago
      Yeah - performance is an issue here (I've worked on VR tech before). What I'm suggesting isn't that developers are getting it perfect, but that we have technologies and techniques that make it work at scale (without people being sick).
modeless 6y ago
> If someone made a non-VR console with VR-style controllers Sony did with PS Move, many years before PSVR. I guess you could consider the Wii a prototype in that direction as well.
- neixidbeksoxyd 6y ago
  Yes, and the very few games that really tried to make use of the interface were amazing. Zelda Skyward Sword was incredibly fun. I remember slashing around thinking there was no way we were going back to regular controls from then on, but I was wrong. I think we have invested so much in the current controller layout that it's difficult for new ideas to get off the ground.
  - Multicomp 6y ago
    Ironic you mentioned that game is being the Pinnacle of motion controls, I'm fond of Wii sports resort instead, that zelda game made me wish they had GameCube controller support because it was so inaccurate.
stevula 6y ago
Controllers were quite different 30 years ago. Dual stick didn’t become the norm until 20 years ago, though arguably Xbox and PlayStation controllers haven’t changed their layouts much since 2000.
- listenallyall 6y ago
  To be fair, human anatomy hasn't changed much since 2000 either.
  - rowanG077 6y ago
    You think the current interface devices are optimal for human anatomy?
tomc1985 6y ago
> Unfortunately Nintendo is the only gaming company taking risks while Microsoft and Sony keep doubling down on graphics with the same controllers from 30 years ago. Because they work and they're what people want. Xbox and Playstation both tried their own motion controls and they flopped, and thank god they did. Many of us like controllers and don't want people trying to innovate that away.
- neixidbeksoxyd 6y ago
  I think their motion controls flopped because they were an afterthought. It's like comparing touch screen controls on iOS vs Windows.
dageshi 6y ago
So long as FPS remains the most popular genre in console gaming nobody is going to deviate from existing controller designs, they are ideally suited for shooters.
- dgellow 6y ago
  For shooters, maybe, but for _First Person_ Shooters? I love gamepads for 3rd person games, but a mouse + keyboard is by far superior to console controllers for FPS. And I say this as someone who plays mostly on consoles! A mouse gives more control and precision than what a thumbstick can provide.

maroonblazer 6y ago

Keep in mind that 1/3 of the population suffer from motion sickness, so for them (I'm in this group) VR isn't an option for the most part. Of course if this is a solvable problem - those who otherwise suffer from motion sickness are symptom-free in any VR application - then I agree VR could have a bright future.

gsich 6y ago
That can probably be trained away.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  Even assuming this is true (I'd be inclined to doubt it) why on earth would anyone bother?
  - zrkrlc 6y ago
    Because all your friends are playing a VR MMO and are talking about it nonstop on social media
- pen2l 6y ago
  Go on, how? I'm getting into boat-sailing, and I'm saddened by the nausea it causes. I'm looking into ways to reduce this, and I'm thinking ways to deal with motion sickness incurred in VR-games is probably applicable to me.
  - mr_toad 6y ago
    I go sailing and don’t get nausea much these days. But VR still makes me queasy after an hour or two.
    - worldsayshi 6y ago
      Add others have hinted, it depends a lot on which games you play, how well they perform and their locomotion mechanics.
  - gsich 6y ago
    Exposure
  - worldsayshi 6y ago
    Nausea at sea is definitely something that typically goes away at least after a couple of days at sea. You get "sea legs". But if you're having it more as a now and then hobby I'm not sure but I recon that there's a long term training element in it as well.
    - hnick 6y ago
      Interestingly, it's the same when you go into space. Around half the people experience it and there doesn't seem to be a link between people who get motion sick and those who get space sick. Symptoms can be mild to relatively severe but people tend to adjust after a few days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_adaptation_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_adaptation_syndrome
danielheath 6y ago
I get quite motion-sick. Boat rides are - at best - mildly unpleasant. After trying the oculus dk1 roller coaster demo, I was incapable of doing anything for 4-5 hours and still felt sick days later. I play beat saber regularly; taking off the vive after an hour I feel mildly disoriented for about half a minute and then I am fine. The tech has progressed tremendously and no longer gives me any trouble (which may not hold true for everyone but it’s definitely been fine for me)!
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  The DK1 was basically the same as google cardboard in terms of tech... I still have mine under my desk.
- squeaky-clean 6y ago
  A big part of it is does your ingame motion match your real world motion. In games like Beat Saber the only movements are from you physically moving. I've had a VR headset for maybe 4 years now and can still only play racing games for about an hour before motion sickness starts to settle in. I bet the roller coaster demo would be much less disorienting if one sat in a motion simulator. I'd love to own one eventually for my sim-racing setup.
throwaway3699 6y ago
With modern VR techniques (teleportation) and hardware (Vive/Rift hardware or later), this is no longer a problem.
- Shacklz 6y ago
  Wouldn't generalize this; I think there are also factors like game performance (FPS) that are at play. I can play Beat Saber and HL:Alyx just fine on the Vive without any issues whatsoever, but whenever I want to give 'Blade & Sorcery' another try I feel absolutely terrible after a few minutes of gameplay. I do think it's poor performance (low FPS and 'location stutter' where the game seemingly can't decide where to place me exactly) are the cause, but I could not place a finger on when/where exactly the threshold is where I start to feel sick.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    Yeah - performance is an issue here (I've worked on VR tech before). What I'm suggesting isn't that developers are getting it perfect, but that we have technologies and techniques that make it work at scale (without people being sick).

modeless 6y ago

> If someone made a non-VR console with VR-style controllers Sony did with PS Move, many years before PSVR. I guess you could consider the Wii a prototype in that direction as well.

neixidbeksoxyd 6y ago
Yes, and the very few games that really tried to make use of the interface were amazing. Zelda Skyward Sword was incredibly fun. I remember slashing around thinking there was no way we were going back to regular controls from then on, but I was wrong. I think we have invested so much in the current controller layout that it's difficult for new ideas to get off the ground.
- Multicomp 6y ago
  Ironic you mentioned that game is being the Pinnacle of motion controls, I'm fond of Wii sports resort instead, that zelda game made me wish they had GameCube controller support because it was so inaccurate.

stevula 6y ago

Controllers were quite different 30 years ago. Dual stick didn’t become the norm until 20 years ago, though arguably Xbox and PlayStation controllers haven’t changed their layouts much since 2000.

listenallyall 6y ago
To be fair, human anatomy hasn't changed much since 2000 either.
- rowanG077 6y ago
  You think the current interface devices are optimal for human anatomy?

tomc1985 6y ago

> Unfortunately Nintendo is the only gaming company taking risks while Microsoft and Sony keep doubling down on graphics with the same controllers from 30 years ago. Because they work and they're what people want. Xbox and Playstation both tried their own motion controls and they flopped, and thank god they did. Many of us like controllers and don't want people trying to innovate that away.

neixidbeksoxyd 6y ago
I think their motion controls flopped because they were an afterthought. It's like comparing touch screen controls on iOS vs Windows.

dageshi 6y ago

So long as FPS remains the most popular genre in console gaming nobody is going to deviate from existing controller designs, they are ideally suited for shooters.

dgellow 6y ago
For shooters, maybe, but for _First Person_ Shooters? I love gamepads for 3rd person games, but a mouse + keyboard is by far superior to console controllers for FPS. And I say this as someone who plays mostly on consoles! A mouse gives more control and precision than what a thumbstick can provide.