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It's good to be aware that this entire thing wouldn't have been possible without encryption. I'm sorry, I'm not sure I'm seeing what point you're trying to mak

by Forbo 6y ago

It's good to be aware that this entire thing wouldn't have been possible without encryption. I'm sorry, I'm not sure I'm seeing what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say that Bitcoin is bad?

panpanna 6y ago
Bitcoin was sold to me as freedom, from governments, from banks, etc. But now I have come to realize that a completely unregulated payment system is very dangerous. To be clear, Bitcoin is not "bad". Humans are bad and this is why we can't have nice things.
- 1123581321 6y ago
  In what way did you buy into Bitcoin? I don’t understand what choice was presented to you. If you’re referring to why people like it, those things can all be true despite criminals also using it.
- zelly 6y ago
  Bitcoin is more regulated and more spied on than most forms of payment. To turn a large amount of Bitcoin into dollars in a bank account, you have to go through extreme AML/KYC checks. I can go to a gas station in California and send $1000 in cash to someone in Turkey who could receive cash and walk out a few minutes later. A briefcase full of cash is not regulated at all and can be used to settle debt or pay taxes, unlike Bitcoin. The only advantage of Bitcoin is not requiring the risk of physical presence, which has to be <1% of all crime. Also, unlike cash, Bitcoin by design retains a full immutable public ledger. The criminals can mix their coins, but it'd still be possible (although computationally expensive) to recreate a chain of transactions going back to the original ransom. In the future if Bitcoin is to become used in commerce more, it should be expected that these dirty transaction outputs would be worth less than clean ones or not accepted, like dollar bills cut in half taped together.
  - rossjudson 6y ago
    If a chemical plant sets up in an area then pollutes the environment during the course of business, it is required to clean up the mess. Known risks are required to have mitigations ready, and sometimes-expensive procedures must be followed to ensure safety. Bitcoin (and everything like it) is very much at the "Pollute the environment with whatever the hell I want" phase of its existence. That should change. Bitcoin should be taxed to recover the externalized costs it imposes -- basically, compensate the victims of bitcoin-enabled crime. Is only a small fraction of bitcoin usage related to crime? No problem -- the tax will be very low.
    - Forbo 6y ago
      We don't have a tax to compensate the victims of crimes enabled by cash, gift cards, Western Union, wire transfers, etc. Sorry, but I'm still not seeing the point being made here.
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
Encryption is the only way to achieve a specific goal (hiding sensitive digital information from other viewers). Bitcoin is one of many ways to achieve a specific goal (transferring money between entities over the internet) and it has one significant drawback, it is difficult to regulate, track, etc. Governments need to have a good idea of where money is going, at least they need to know that more than they need to know what people are saying to each other

by Forbo 6y ago

panpanna 6y ago

Bitcoin was sold to me as freedom, from governments, from banks, etc. But now I have come to realize that a completely unregulated payment system is very dangerous. To be clear, Bitcoin is not "bad". Humans are bad and this is why we can't have nice things.

1123581321 6y ago
In what way did you buy into Bitcoin? I don’t understand what choice was presented to you. If you’re referring to why people like it, those things can all be true despite criminals also using it.
zelly 6y ago
Bitcoin is more regulated and more spied on than most forms of payment. To turn a large amount of Bitcoin into dollars in a bank account, you have to go through extreme AML/KYC checks. I can go to a gas station in California and send $1000 in cash to someone in Turkey who could receive cash and walk out a few minutes later. A briefcase full of cash is not regulated at all and can be used to settle debt or pay taxes, unlike Bitcoin. The only advantage of Bitcoin is not requiring the risk of physical presence, which has to be <1% of all crime. Also, unlike cash, Bitcoin by design retains a full immutable public ledger. The criminals can mix their coins, but it'd still be possible (although computationally expensive) to recreate a chain of transactions going back to the original ransom. In the future if Bitcoin is to become used in commerce more, it should be expected that these dirty transaction outputs would be worth less than clean ones or not accepted, like dollar bills cut in half taped together.
- rossjudson 6y ago
  If a chemical plant sets up in an area then pollutes the environment during the course of business, it is required to clean up the mess. Known risks are required to have mitigations ready, and sometimes-expensive procedures must be followed to ensure safety. Bitcoin (and everything like it) is very much at the "Pollute the environment with whatever the hell I want" phase of its existence. That should change. Bitcoin should be taxed to recover the externalized costs it imposes -- basically, compensate the victims of bitcoin-enabled crime. Is only a small fraction of bitcoin usage related to crime? No problem -- the tax will be very low.
  - Forbo 6y ago
    We don't have a tax to compensate the victims of crimes enabled by cash, gift cards, Western Union, wire transfers, etc. Sorry, but I'm still not seeing the point being made here.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago

Encryption is the only way to achieve a specific goal (hiding sensitive digital information from other viewers). Bitcoin is one of many ways to achieve a specific goal (transferring money between entities over the internet) and it has one significant drawback, it is difficult to regulate, track, etc. Governments need to have a good idea of where money is going, at least they need to know that more than they need to know what people are saying to each other