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So, I’m curious what this means. Isn’t a dogfight with guns in F-16s kinda a completely implausible combat scenario in a modern world? I’m certain that air-to-a

So, I’m curious what this means. Isn’t a dogfight with guns in F-16s kinda a completely implausible combat scenario in a modern world? I’m certain that air-to-air drones are going to be a big part of future defence, but I’m curious to what extent they need to be much more than flying missile launchers. Anyone in the industry have any thoughts?

tomohawk 6y ago
It is unusual, but it does happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engagements_of_the_Gulf_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engagements_of_the_Gulf_Wa... There have been attempts to make fighters (F-4) without guns as that was considered obsolete by military middle management (pentagon), but then they had to add them later because actual combat showed it not to be the case. In fairly recent engagements between F-15s and Mig-25s/29s - dogfights with guns have occurred and were decisive. You don't always get to detect threats beyond visual range and shoot missiles. For a more in-depth account to get an idea of how ROE (rules of engagement), and actual conditions play into these scenarios: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35765/confessions-of-an-f-15-eagle-driver-with-three-mig-kills https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35765/confessions-of-a...
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  I kind of doubt 3 decades ago counts as modern war.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    The F-22 - the top-of-the-line US fighter right now - first flew in 1997. The youngest B-52s in service are well over 50 years old.
    - greedo 6y ago
      People forget that military tech changes slowly. B2 was 1980s, M1 1970s, Su-27 is early 1990's. Perhaps the newest aircraft would be the J-20.
- greedo 6y ago
  Can you point to any gunfights with F-15s? I try to keep track of this (since the Bekaa Valley fights) and I was unaware of any gunfights.
adventured 6y ago
It's like beating humans at chess, then Go. We don't desperately need AI to be able to do that specific thing. It's useful as a test - one of many surely to come - to see how far along we are in the process of replacement. You have to start somewhere.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
xwdv 6y ago
It's a unit test.
LoSboccacc 6y ago
stealth coating and low return shapes can't spoof eyes and flares and chaff can't spoof a bullet

tomohawk 6y ago

It is unusual, but it does happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engagements_of_the_Gulf_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engagements_of_the_Gulf_Wa... There have been attempts to make fighters (F-4) without guns as that was considered obsolete by military middle management (pentagon), but then they had to add them later because actual combat showed it not to be the case. In fairly recent engagements between F-15s and Mig-25s/29s - dogfights with guns have occurred and were decisive. You don't always get to detect threats beyond visual range and shoot missiles. For a more in-depth account to get an idea of how ROE (rules of engagement), and actual conditions play into these scenarios: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35765/confessions-of-an-f-15-eagle-driver-with-three-mig-kills https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35765/confessions-of-a...

solidasparagus 6y ago
I kind of doubt 3 decades ago counts as modern war.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  The F-22 - the top-of-the-line US fighter right now - first flew in 1997. The youngest B-52s in service are well over 50 years old.
  - greedo 6y ago
    People forget that military tech changes slowly. B2 was 1980s, M1 1970s, Su-27 is early 1990's. Perhaps the newest aircraft would be the J-20.
greedo 6y ago
Can you point to any gunfights with F-15s? I try to keep track of this (since the Bekaa Valley fights) and I was unaware of any gunfights.

adventured 6y ago

It's like beating humans at chess, then Go. We don't desperately need AI to be able to do that specific thing. It's useful as a test - one of many surely to come - to see how far along we are in the process of replacement. You have to start somewhere.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

xwdv 6y ago

It's a unit test.

LoSboccacc 6y ago

stealth coating and low return shapes can't spoof eyes and flares and chaff can't spoof a bullet